Steroid talks starting up again...

[scs_paradise]

First I work in an industry where if I ever test positive one time for drugs OR alcohol my career is over. No second chance, no "oh I thought if I stopped drinking 12 hours ago it would be enough", they would just say tough and I wouldn't be able to get hired by anyone in my industry again....EVER.

 

Second, I used to be against the congressional proposal for many of the same reasons stated earlier but I changed my mind when I stopped thinking about the players as poor souls just trying to get an edge and started thinking of them as responsible adults who ought to be able to make correct decisions when it comes to their careers. Now I'm all for the congressional proposal. Afraid you might take something that will cause a false positive? My answer is don't take any supplements then. I would welcome a return to normal looking people playing baseball.

 

Besides if it came down to a 2 yr suspension then lifetime ban you would see every team issuing the supplements and it would be written into their contracts that the player could not take any supplement not approved by the team. In 5 years it would be no big thing, I think most of you are overreacting

 

Third, the congress has the right to govern baseball because of the special exemption granted MLB from anit-trust legislation. Congress could always revoke that exemption and that is why MLB will do just about anything congress wants it to.

[cubbieinexile]

The exemption does not give them the right to govern Baseball. If anything it means that certains laws of the land do not apply to baseball.

 

So you are for not allowing human beings to take something that is perfectly illegal and force them to not use them on the off chance that it might have something in it "we" don't like? Hey your car might kill somebody or you might have the one defective car that explodes, sorry you can't use your car anymore.

 

 

So what is your industry?

[BigbadB]

The exemption does not give them the right to govern Baseball. If anything it means that certains laws of the land do not apply to baseball.

 

So you are for not allowing human beings to take something that is perfectly illegal and force them to not use them on the off chance that it might have something in it "we" don't like? Hey your car might kill somebody or you might have the one defective car that explodes, sorry you can't use your car anymore.

 

 

So what is your industry?

 

I'm guessing he's in the transport business of some sort. Truck drivers can lose their jobs if any alcohol is found in their system, let alone illegal drugs.

[scs_paradise]

The exemption does not give them the right to govern Baseball. If anything it means that certains laws of the land do not apply to baseball.

 

So you are for not allowing human beings to take something that is perfectly illegal and force them to not use them on the off chance that it might have something in it "we" don't like? Hey your car might kill somebody or you might have the one defective car that explodes, sorry you can't use your car anymore.

 

 

So what is your industry?

 

I'm in the aviation industry (the airline I work for is one of the ones that just declared bankruptcy).

 

As far as not allowing them to take anything....its still their choice, but if your career depends on what you put in your body then you will be damn sure you know what's in it. Each of these guys has the resources at hand to make sure they know what's in what they take. I would allow one exception and that is if a player takes a supplement approved by his team doctor or pharmacist than the player would not suffer any penalty and the team would be fined a large sum that would then be placed into a fund for informing young people about the dangers....

[CubinNY]

 

Just like nobody kills anybody, or nobody uses drugs because they don't want to go away for life.

 

No amount of punishment has ever been enough to solve anything. Jails, punishment, secret police, torture, none of it has stamped out the ills of society. If anything it just magnifies the problem by making it more secretive, more efficient, and more dangerous.

 

If I may interject a little philosophy here. Technically you are correct. The question is what definition of punishment one wants to use. There is the common definition that we use in the criminal justices system, that is is retribution (i.e., paying for one's crime). Then there is the scientific definition of punishment, that is a consequence that decreases the probability of a particular behavior occurring again.

 

From animal research, science knows quite a bit about the effects of the latter. In addition, scientists know the "best" way to administer punishment so that it has a maximum effect. Research indictates that in order for punishment to be theraputicly effective it must be:

 

-contingent on a behavior

-administered immediately

-at maximum strength

-short in duration

 

The problem is most punishment administered does not meet one or more of the four pieces I outlined above. If we wanted to decrease speeding we could reward people who drive at the speed limit or we could make speeding a $10,000 fine to be paid at the time of the offense.

 

If we use the second definition of punishment in baseball, I would think an immediate 1 year ban w/o pay with no arbitration or apeals would be sufficient for most players. However, if some continue to violate the policy then the punishment would increase.

Edited October 1, 2005 by CubinNY

[Derwood]

Mark McGwire must be talking to Bonds...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2177468

[bhogg]

baseball needs a "normal" drug policy.

 

For example, my bank has one of these "normal" policies. If your random test shows up as positive for drugs, you are fired.

 

If that ever happened to me, sure, I'd be able to find work elsewhere, but not in banking. More than likely I'd have a tough time getting back to the salary I had at the time of losing my job.

 

That being said, if a major league baseball player gets caught taking drugs, and the rules say the penalty is a ban from baseball, that means (to me) that you've been canned from playing baseball. You are free to work elsewhere. . . . just like a normal everyday average drug taking joe.

[minnesotacubsfan]

i like congress' proposal.

 

who gives a crap about a list.

 

 

how hard is it for a ballplayer to understand "don't take anything that could jeopardize your career?"

 

Thank you. You think a guy making a couple million bucks a year might be able to take a little responsiblity. I'm all for a lifetime ban right off the bat. The reprocutions of steriods haven't been fully realized yet in my opinion.

 

All the stories of kids taking steriods.......

 

Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, and all the other stars that played with talent alone, yet being passed by cheaters in the record books........

 

My stack of Sammy, Barry, Raffy, and McGuire rookies which are now worthless.........

 

Yeah, lets blame congress for being to hard on our heroes :roll:

 

I don't see what you people have against a list making players aware of what they can take and what they can't. Trust me, this isn't just "Don't take anabolic steroids." There are plenty of things in suppliments and stuff that they could get busted for if they're not careful. I think baseball would be wise to at least inform all thier players in thier native tounge on paper of what banned substances are found in what. That way there is no excuse whatsoever. It reduces the amount of "Oh, well I didn't know that a banned substance was in this over-the-counter suppliment I took!" stories that we hear.

 

And as to your second point..... If you have a hornets nest outside of your home, do you spray it with hornet killer or call an exterminator, or do you blow up your house? Both get rid of your hornet problem, but only one makes sense.

 

I don't have a problem with making a list, but that isn't the solution. Zero Tolerance, period. Let's say a buddy of yours feeds you some "magic" brownies because he thought it'd be funny. If your employer drug tests you and you fail, will they say "Oh!! You didn't know you were taking it?, so don't worry about it". Professional athletes should be held to the same standard as the fans that pay their salaries.

 

I understand your point and agree that players need to know what they can or can't take. If they feel the need to take a performance enhancing drug, it is the PLAYERS responsibility to make sure it is legal.

And you wouldn't get a lifetime ban. Not even close. You'll likely take a salary knock if you're white collar, maybe hurt your promotion chances, etc, but you won't be unemployed forever.

Your argument gets an F

 

I think you should look in your 8 ball again. What career field is it exactly that will over look a drug test? McDonalds? Burger King? I'm sure there are companies out there that would over look it, but from my experience, Zero Tolerance means Zero Tolerance.

 

I know of a few professions that overlook drug abuse. they ultimately use a "dont ask, dont tell" policy. I am in such a profession. I dont know if it is bad or good, but I do believe it is a bad policy for ATHLETES to rely on performance enhancers because of what it says to youth. But witch hunts scare me, and this whole congressional hearing cr#@ wreaks of it. How many of these politicians are truly LEGIT? very few. pot calling the kettle black, it wreaks. I REALLY support MLB's decision to police itself, and if Selig isnt up to the task, he needs to be removed. BUT CONGRESS? give me an f-in break.

[scs_paradise]

baseball needs a "normal" drug policy.

 

For example, my bank has one of these "normal" policies. If your random test shows up as positive for drugs, you are fired.

 

If that ever happened to me, sure, I'd be able to find work elsewhere, but not in banking. More than likely I'd have a tough time getting back to the salary I had at the time of losing my job.

 

That being said, if a major league baseball player gets caught taking drugs, and the rules say the penalty is a ban from baseball, that means (to me) that you've been canned from playing baseball. You are free to work elsewhere. . . . just like a normal everyday average drug taking joe.

 

=D>

[erik316wttn]

Zero-tolerance policies NEVER work. EVER.

 

They always wind up screwing some totally innocent person and making the governing body look like a jackass.

 

Like the 6-year-old girl from this area who was suspended from school because she had a plastic butter knife in her lunch bag. She was suspended from school under its "zero tolerance" weapons policy.

 

They never work, and if baseball institutes one, I guarantee you some innocent party is going to get screwed royally. I'd put money on it.