JoBo's Great AL Run....

[rynesrevenge0206]

...has come to an end. His smoke and mirrors act is over, and in September, his line is an ugly:

 

0-4, 5.73 ERA, 1.45 WHIP (7 ER in 11 IP)

 

Do I wish that we could've had ole' Joe in the pen during his great 20 whatever odd scoreless streak? Sure. But I know some of you all were quite pissed that we didn't give JoBo enough of a shot this year, so I felt inclined to post this when I saw him collect his 4th loss of the month.

 

I'm sure he'll be a journeyman for two years before he finally calls it quits and gets a job at Home Depot.

[Careless]

Everyone who says borowski was smoke and mirrors pre-2004 wasn't watching the cubs. And I know that includes a bunch of people here.

[Cubzfan64]

Everyone who says borowski was smoke and mirrors pre-2004 wasn't watching the cubs. And I know that includes a bunch of people here.

 

I watched a TON of games pre-2004 and although Joe had good numbers overall, he was rarely if ever a dominant closer. I can recall many many games that he closed where he allowed a hit or two and a walk and a number of the outs were line drives at someone.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really liked Joe Borowski - it's easy to like a guy who's toiled in the minors for a long time, worked hard to get to where he wanted to be and took advantage of it for as long as he could, it's just that I personally never felt he was a closer that struck fear in opposing batters hearts. He's a great guy and a super "underdog" pitcher to root for, but the term "smoke and mirrors" definitely applied to him many times.

[Careless]

yeah, guys who allow 1.05 baserunners per inning and strike out 8.5 per 9 innings are really getting by with luck and prayers.

that works out to what, a 1.08 WHIP in 155 innings over 2 years, averaging just about 1 k per inning? he was a damned good pitcher in that time period.

[illiniguy]

yeah, guys who allow 1.05 baserunners per inning and strike out 8.5 per 9 innings are really getting by with luck and prayers.

that works out to what, a 1.08 WHIP in 155 innings over 2 years, averaging just about 1 k per inning? he was a damned good pitcher in that time period.

ah but don't let stats get in the way of a good story. Joe was pretty dang good for parts of three years. Then he got hurt. It happens to pitchers. I wish him the best still. Even after he was cut he was man enough to say good things about the cubs, unlike some superstars we have had before.

[biittner77]

"I guess AL hitter must have a book on Borowski"- Dusty Baker

[abuck1220]

Everyone who says borowski was smoke and mirrors pre-2004 wasn't watching the cubs. And I know that includes a bunch of people here.

 

I watched a TON of games pre-2004 and although Joe had good numbers overall, he was rarely if ever a dominant closer. I can recall many many games that he closed where he allowed a hit or two and a walk and a number of the outs were line drives at someone.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really liked Joe Borowski - it's easy to like a guy who's toiled in the minors for a long time, worked hard to get to where he wanted to be and took advantage of it for as long as he could, it's just that I personally never felt he was a closer that struck fear in opposing batters hearts. He's a great guy and a super "underdog" pitcher to root for, but the term "smoke and mirrors" definitely applied to him many times.

 

borowski was a dominant pitcher during those two years with the cubs. he was tough to hit and struck out a bunch of guys...he just did it w/o throwing 98, so people like to say he wasn't dominant.

 

w/o looking up #'s or thinking too hard about it, i'd bet that his two year run is better than any two year run by any cub bullpen arm this decade.

[Satch80]

I watched every 2003 game and if your definition of "dominant" is a Farnsworth fastball, then no, he wasn't dominant.

But if "dominant"means getting the job done, spotting his fastball and getting them to chase good breaking pitches, staying cool, not walking batters and giving up dingers, then he was a dominant closer. I remember him closing games against the St Louis heart of the order under a lot of pressure and getting it done.

 

Joe's shoulder caused a loss of velocity. In 2003 his FB was decent and his slider was sharp. That's not smoke and mirrors.

[Chris]

Rough September indeed. Even with the rough September he still has an ERA of 2.70 as a reliever with the Rays, with a WHIP of 0.93

[Cubzfan64]

Just to clarify, my definition of dominant has nothing to do with speed of pitches - I've seen Tim Wakefield look dominant in a number of games this season.

 

It's probably more a matter of definition of dominant than anything else - I pretty much reserve "dominant" status for those 1 or 2 guys who are clearly above and beyond everyone else - a good example is Mariano Rivera this season - I consider that to be a dominant season.

 

I guess I just have to agree to disagree about Joe and 2002/2003. He clearly had a very good 2003 season statistic-wise, but 2002 wasn't as great as it looks at first glance - if you check, you'll see he let alot of runners on base on average and teams had a very decent slugging percentage against him.

 

2003 was definitely his best year by far and I was more than happy to have him on the team, but I still ddn't consider him to be a dominant closer.

 

I sure wish him the best of luck though - it's a damn shame he got hurt, he's a classy guy and impossible to root against!

[mul21]

When your fastball goes from 91-92 down to 85-86 in thespace of one offseason, you're probably going to lose effectiveness unless your name is Greg Maddux. Also, following that good fastball up with a hard breaking slider at 86-88 keeps hitters off balance. When you can't beat a hitter with a slow bat with your fastball, they can adjust to the slider and there you get Joes struggles. I loved seeing his success, but his struggles were due to nothing more than injury (or if your a cynic, the roids wearing off).

[YearofDaCubs]

Borowski was good for us before his injury and I do not believe it was smoke and mirrors, but since the injury he is damaged goods.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Chalking up JoBo's success/failure as smoke and mirrors is baseless. Show me how his success/failure correlates with injuries/"figuring him out." it's injuries that caused his "downturn."

 

 

btw, deception gets people out. smoke and mirrors. pfff.

[rynesrevenge0206]

Woah, obviously smoke and mirrors was a bad choice of words.

 

BUT, when you pitch 23 or whatever scoreless IP in the AL, with the league's worst team defense, and with the same arm that yielded 5 HR in 11 IP in Chicago, I don't know what else to call it.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Woah, obviously smoke and mirrors was a bad choice of words.

 

BUT, when you pitch 23 or whatever scoreless IP in the AL, with the league's worst team defense, and with the same arm that yielded 5 HR in 11 IP in Chicago, I don't know what else to call it.

 

well, speaking as a pitcher (yes, i did pitch beyond hs), it's not unrealistic to come off an injury, absolutely suck and then dominate (like JoBo) and then get hammered as another problem crops up (be it blisters, delivery, mental).

 

btw, pitching out of the bullpen is harder than it seems. gf leaves you = arse raping. :wink: hahaha :lol: ...just trying to say that it is very mental. it may explain the unpredictability of bullpens.

[Careless]

Just to clarify, my definition of dominant has nothing to do with speed of pitches - I've seen Tim Wakefield look dominant in a number of games this season.

 

It's probably more a matter of definition of dominant than anything else - I pretty much reserve "dominant" status for those 1 or 2 guys who are clearly above and beyond everyone else - a good example is Mariano Rivera this season - I consider that to be a dominant season.

 

I guess I just have to agree to disagree about Joe and 2002/2003. He clearly had a very good 2003 season statistic-wise, but 2002 wasn't as great as it looks at first glance - if you check, you'll see he let alot of runners on base on average and teams had a very decent slugging percentage against him.

 

2003 was definitely his best year by far and I was more than happy to have him on the team, but I still ddn't consider him to be a dominant closer.

 

I sure wish him the best of luck though - it's a damn shame he got hurt, he's a classy guy and impossible to root against!

Ok, borowski was never one of the top 2 relievers in the game. that's true.

[abuck1220]

Woah, obviously smoke and mirrors was a bad choice of words.

 

BUT, when you pitch 23 or whatever scoreless IP in the AL, with the league's worst team defense, and with the same arm that yielded 5 HR in 11 IP in Chicago, I don't know what else to call it.

 

i'd call it sample size. you call it what you want.