Time to give props to David Eckstein!

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ok if certain managers dont know how to win games, then why does everyone on this board complain about Dusty. Apperntly according to your statement the manager cant win games so Dusty is fine right?

 

Of course there are some managers that can win games and im saying I believe that I think that is the difference in those so called expected wins to the amount of actual wins the braves and the cardinals have.

 

dusty does things like play bad players and make them bat at the beginning of the lineup. this helps the cubs lose, because it costs them runs. since it costs them runs, it is reflected in stats like this.

 

Yes but you could say that managers like Larussa get guys in late in the game in the right spots and wins them a number of those games. That is a manager helping his team win the game. You say i use the manger knows how to win as because i dont have any other arguments.

 

Well whet is your facts that expected wins is a viable stat?

I see it as nothing more then some stat nerd came up with but it has nothing to do with actual baseball. Its a formula taht says how many games a team should win based on run differential but dosent take into consideration a lot of other details that are part of the game of baseball.

 

All a manager can do is put his team in the right situation. He really can't help the team, but he most certainly can hurt it.

 

I agree that it comes down to the players performing, but a manger putting his team in the best situation most of the times defintley helps them win games.

 

He's not the one helping the team though. Let me try and word this correctly.

 

TLR decides to bring in Edmonds to pitch in a tie game in the playoffs. TLR is hurting the team for a multitude of reasons that you can obviously grasp.

 

TLR correctly PH'es with Rodriguez over Taguchi because of R/L matchup or previous success or whatever evidence supports the decision. Rodriguez gets a hit. Good job for Rodriguez. TLR didn't help the team. He isn't the one who decides whether Rodriguez gets the hit. On the other hand, he IS the one who decides whether Taguchi or Rodriguez gets the at bat. If he makes the right choice, then he's not hurting the team.

 

Basically, TLR or any manager for that matter can't make the team perform any better than it's ability, but he can through personnel decisions make the team perform worse than it's ability.

[reggiemiller rules]

I understand what your saying and i respect your belief, I just dont believe it. I personally believe that a manager can do a number of things to help his team win. Now like I said it comes down to the players doing it. But my belief is that the manager can make a differnce to help the team. Its just a difference in opinions, who knows you may be right. I guess there is no way of knowing because its not one of those things that can be proven or not.

[genghiskhan]

Eckstein hit his eighth home run today. His 58 RBI are third on the team. And he's outperformed both Renteria and Cabrera in just about every offensive category.

 

An absolute steal. And I was most upset when we signed him.

[indifferent]

Eckstein hit his eighth home run today. His 58 RBI are third on the team. And he's outperformed both Renteria and Cabrera in just about every offensive category.

 

An absolute steal. And I was most upset when we signed him.

 

When we signed him, I wasn't giving into the hype. I refused to be taken in by his "scrappiness" or his "hustle". I KNEW for a fact that our ground ball pitchers would rue the day Renteria left (and I also agreed he wasn't worth the money he signed).

 

Eckstein has exceeded my expectations in every aspect.

[TruffleShuffle]

His 58 RBI are third on the team.

 

This is a pointless stat. The only reason he's third on the team is because of injuries. If the 3B, LF and RF had all been healthy this year, Eckstein would rank 6th on the team at best.

[genghiskhan]

His 58 RBI are third on the team.

 

This is a pointless stat. The only reason he's third on the team is because of injuries. If the 3B, LF and RF had all been healthy this year, Eckstein would rank 6th on the team at best.

 

How about "his 58 RBI are only five off his career high"?

 

Anyhoo, he's been a most excellent surprise. Putting the Renteria money into Mark Mulder worked out quite nicely.

[EastonBlues22]

Eckstein hit his eighth home run today. His 58 RBI are third on the team. And he's outperformed both Renteria and Cabrera in just about every offensive category.

 

An absolute steal. And I was most upset when we signed him.

 

When we signed him, I wasn't giving into the hype. I refused to be taken in by his "scrappiness" or his "hustle". I KNEW for a fact that our ground ball pitchers would rue the day Renteria left (and I also agreed he wasn't worth the money he signed).

 

Eckstein has exceeded my expectations in every aspect.

I just wanted to say that I've been a defender of his from the beginning. Normally, I wouldn't say anything about it, but I spent countless hours in the offseason (especially on stltoday.com) responding to idiotic posts like "Eckstein's range and arm are going to cause all our groundball pitcher's ERAs to rise by half a run," and frankly, I think I've earned it.

[TruffleShuffle]

Eckstein hit his eighth home run today. His 58 RBI are third on the team. And he's outperformed both Renteria and Cabrera in just about every offensive category.

 

An absolute steal. And I was most upset when we signed him.

 

When we signed him, I wasn't giving into the hype. I refused to be taken in by his "scrappiness" or his "hustle". I KNEW for a fact that our ground ball pitchers would rue the day Renteria left (and I also agreed he wasn't worth the money he signed).

 

Eckstein has exceeded my expectations in every aspect.

I just wanted to say that I've been a defender of his from the beginning. Normally, I wouldn't say anything about it, but I spent countless hours in the offseason (especially on stltoday.com) responding to idiotic posts like "Eckstein's range and arm are going to cause all our groundball pitcher's ERAs to rise by half a run," and frankly, I think I've earned it.

 

He also rescued a baby trapped in a well, helped foil a terrorist plot to blow up the Earth, and his butt smells like roses too.

[EastonBlues22]

He also rescued a baby trapped in a well, helped foil a terrorist plot to blow up the Earth, and his butt smells like roses too.

Oddly, the third thing you list was instrumental in his accomplishing the first two. :wink:

 

Seriously though, I never called him a savior (or even a better player than Renteria), but I argued endlessly that he would be more than capable of filling the Cardinal's needs offensively and defensively. Nobody wanted to hear it then...they were all pissed Renteria didn't take our money and that we got stuck with an "inferior" player at a key position.

 

Now I'm thinking there's a lot of people who are glad Renteria didn't accept our offer.

[thedaymen]

First, whether a manager "helps" a team win or "can hurt" a team's chances to win is a semantic argument. We all agree that two teams that are made of players who are mirror images of each other physically and mentally will have different records? And that the team with the better manager is more likely to be the team with the most wins? So the manager does impact his teams w/l.

 

Second, the Eck v Nomar argument was pretty pointless. I can't imagine anyone would argue Eck had a better career or Nomar had a better 2005. Everyone was just talking past each other.

 

Third, Eck was a great pickup for the Cards this year. Whether the coaching staff noticed something that has helped him become a better player or whether he's just had a great season; he's been a great pickup. Good for Jocketty and good for the Cardinals.

[SouthSideRyan]

Reading through this thread kinda made me glad I kept skipping over it.

 

But yes, I will give props to Eckstein.

 

He's not as ugly as Otis Nixon.

[CoolHandLuke]

Reading through this thread kinda made me glad I kept skipping over it.

 

But yes, I will give props to Eckstein.

 

He's not as ugly as Otis Nixon.

 

Come on man, you really have to improve that IsoD.