Patterson on the block?

[UBlink]

Bacon & Greenberg are utility men at best

 

At this point, Patterson is a utility man at best also, but a highly compensated one.

[brfahey]

so can adam greenberg play CF? Everybody on sportstalk always blabs about pie but I'm wondering if greenberg can fill in until pie is really ready.

 

Yes, he can, but his ceiling is an MLB utility player. His OBP has been pretty good in the minors and he has good plate discipline.

 

And apparently, I agree with Outshined on this topic. Trading/releasing a young player like Corey doesn't necessarily improve this team, especially considering the alternatives in CF.

 

Man, talk about your tired Patterson excuses....he is NOT young. He's 26 yo, has played in parts of SIX big league seasons, and has over 2,000 big league ABs. Not only has he not realized his quasi-talent, not only has he not improved, but he has regressed to the point that he is one of the five worst hitters in all of baseball.

 

THE GUY HAS A **LIFETIME** OBP UNDER .300, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! Do you have any reckoning of just how bad that is??

 

He's a 1st round bust. Face it. He's not the first the Cubs have had (not even close!), he won't be the last. He gets paid $3MM this year, how laughable is that?

 

Yes, you dump him, he has no value because he STINKS. You don't hold up the organization waiting for snow to fall in Mexico. Save the $3MM and release him. I would much rather take that $3MM and put it in the "Sign Johnny Damon and Brian Giles and Rafael Furcal and BJ Ryan" fund.

 

Thnak you for that post. I think the mention in this thread of magic beans should refer to what the Corey apologists are clutching. This argument that we can't get rid of him because we won't get anything for him is ridiculous. Addition by subtraction. Does anyone think we would be a better team had we held out to get "top notch" players in return for Sosa? Sosa would be stinking it up here.

 

It never ceases to amaze me about the amount of slack cut Corey on these boards. The guy is not a baseball player. Last night you could see he was going to get picked off. he had way too big of a lead and was not reading that pitcher's move at all. He just appears to not understand the game. His fault or someone else's? Don't know and don't care. He hurts this team by his presence on it and he needs to go, for something or nothing at all.

[Outshined_One]

Does anyone think we would be a better team had we held out to get "top notch" players in return for Sosa? Sosa would be stinking it up here.

 

Apples and oranges. Sosa was on a serious decline, had major injury issues, had a headache of a contract, and was causing all sorts of clubhouse problems. Most people here were keeping their singers crossed for a deal to the Mets involving Cliff Floyd and Kaz Matsui because their GM might have been dumb enough to pull off that trade. Sadly, he was not.

 

If Sosa had stayed in Chicago, it would have been a media circus and would have made the season even more gut-wrenching. I seriously don't even want to think about what would have happened if Sosa stayed on board with this team, especially with Dusty feeling the need to rearrange the deck chairs whenever possible.

 

At least with Corey we know that Dusty wouldn't have much of an issue throwing him on the bench or batting him behind Henry Blanco if he stunk up the joint.

[USSoccer]

I think I'm in between feelings on Corey. On the one hand, you look at his ML experience and it's hard for me to weigh the half season he put up in 2003 greater than the past 2 seasons of performance. We have a large enough sample size to be able to evaluate a 26 yr old. He's bad at the plate, and has regressed since 2003, knee injury notwithstanding. He's not as cheap as he used to be, and he's basically a black hole at the bottom of the lineup, way worse than Gonzalez or Miller/Bako were in 2003.

 

On the other hand, he's above average defensively, Hairston is clearly not beloved by Baker, and we don't have another option in the minors that would be an acceptable everyday ML centerfielder.

 

If I were the Cubs, I'd forget about the winter ball thing, let his mind reboot, and go into spring thinking he's the CF. If a deal comes along where you're offered value for him, AND you can find yourself an acceptable alternative for CF, pull the trigger. If he can put up .260/.310, I'd take it and run. If not, when Pie is ready sometime next summer, trade him for cents on the dollar. I'm no longer thinking Corey is a building block, but he has one last chance to prove he can be not a liability.

[muntjack]

Whether we think Pie is ready or not, it is pretty clear by now that Hendry and Fleita think he IS. They have both stated he would have been up this summer if not for the injury. He will get a REAL opportunity in spring training, IMO.

[HoopsCubs]

I think I'm in between feelings on Corey. On the one hand, you look at his ML experience and it's hard for me to weigh the half season he put up in 2003 greater than the past 2 seasons of performance. We have a large enough sample size to be able to evaluate a 26 yr old. He's bad at the plate, and has regressed since 2003, knee injury notwithstanding. He's not as cheap as he used to be, and he's basically a black hole at the bottom of the lineup, way worse than Gonzalez or Miller/Bako were in 2003.

 

On the other hand, he's above average defensively, Hairston is clearly not beloved by Baker, and we don't have another option in the minors that would be an acceptable everyday ML centerfielder.

 

If I were the Cubs, I'd forget about the winter ball thing, let his mind reboot, and go into spring thinking he's the CF. If a deal comes along where you're offered value for him, AND you can find yourself an acceptable alternative for CF, pull the trigger. If he can put up .260/.310, I'd take it and run. If not, when Pie is ready sometime next summer, trade him for cents on the dollar. I'm no longer thinking Corey is a building block, but he has one last chance to prove he can be not a liability.

 

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

[goonys evil twin]

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

Must you ruin my winter before it begins?

[CuseCubFan69]

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

Must you ruin my winter before it begins?

 

Greatest SS ever. Imagine the replays on ESPN Jeter would have recieved if he was the one that threw a runner out at home like Cedeno did when he backed up the play after the wild pitch and bad toss to Prior?

 

Wilson has Hendry type player all over him. How old is Mookies little one?

[USSoccer]

I think I'm in between feelings on Corey. On the one hand, you look at his ML experience and it's hard for me to weigh the half season he put up in 2003 greater than the past 2 seasons of performance. We have a large enough sample size to be able to evaluate a 26 yr old. He's bad at the plate, and has regressed since 2003, knee injury notwithstanding. He's not as cheap as he used to be, and he's basically a black hole at the bottom of the lineup, way worse than Gonzalez or Miller/Bako were in 2003.

 

On the other hand, he's above average defensively, Hairston is clearly not beloved by Baker, and we don't have another option in the minors that would be an acceptable everyday ML centerfielder.

 

If I were the Cubs, I'd forget about the winter ball thing, let his mind reboot, and go into spring thinking he's the CF. If a deal comes along where you're offered value for him, AND you can find yourself an acceptable alternative for CF, pull the trigger. If he can put up .260/.310, I'd take it and run. If not, when Pie is ready sometime next summer, trade him for cents on the dollar. I'm no longer thinking Corey is a building block, but he has one last chance to prove he can be not a liability.

 

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

You really think so, Hoops?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

If I were the Cubs, I'd forget about the winter ball thing, let his mind reboot, and go into spring thinking he's the CF. If a deal comes along where you're offered value for him, AND you can find yourself an acceptable alternative for CF, pull the trigger. If he can put up .260/.310, I'd take it and run. If not, when Pie is ready sometime next summer, trade him for cents on the dollar. I'm no longer thinking Corey is a building block, but he has one last chance to prove he can be not a liability.

 

Absolutely not. You do not avoid getting a quality CF by putting your faith in Patterson yet AGAIN, that would be gross malfeasance on the part of Jim Hendry. Baker and Hendry both need to call Patterson in their office and give him the Fredo treatment: "You are nothing to me now."

 

I'm torn on whether to try and sign Damon, but Giles is a must-get. And, he can play CF for a year or so until Pie is hopefully ready. So the Cubs don't really NEED to specifically get a CF this offseason, IMO, if they do get Giles. They need to get another OF in general, via trade or FA. And that makes the job easier. For example...

 

Milton Bradley will be available. Can Dusty calm him down? He's got talent. He would actually be a CF for us, at least until Pie.

 

Tampa and Cincinnati have too many OF-ers, and both might finally be ready to move one of them in a trade. They know they need pitching, that's one thing we have. Jonny Gomes or Aubrey Huff? Adam Dunn or Austin Kearns or maybe Ryan Freel?

 

Ryan Klesko is the kind of short-term solution Hendry might like, he's a better version of Burnitz. San Diego might be ready to turn over their OF if they lose Giles.

 

The Mets also have an extra OF. It seems likely they'd stick with Victor Diaz given his youth. But Mike Cameron or Cliff Floyd?

 

With Jeremy Hermida finally here, Florida has no room for Juan Encarnacion.

 

Cleveland doesn't have room for Franklin Gutierrez, Coco Crisp, and Grady Sizemore all at once, do they?

 

So there are options. You don't sit on Patterson and ignore better choices. He gone.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I think I'm in between feelings on Corey. On the one hand, you look at his ML experience and it's hard for me to weigh the half season he put up in 2003 greater than the past 2 seasons of performance. We have a large enough sample size to be able to evaluate a 26 yr old. He's bad at the plate, and has regressed since 2003, knee injury notwithstanding. He's not as cheap as he used to be, and he's basically a black hole at the bottom of the lineup, way worse than Gonzalez or Miller/Bako were in 2003.

 

On the other hand, he's above average defensively, Hairston is clearly not beloved by Baker, and we don't have another option in the minors that would be an acceptable everyday ML centerfielder.

 

If I were the Cubs, I'd forget about the winter ball thing, let his mind reboot, and go into spring thinking he's the CF. If a deal comes along where you're offered value for him, AND you can find yourself an acceptable alternative for CF, pull the trigger. If he can put up .260/.310, I'd take it and run. If not, when Pie is ready sometime next summer, trade him for cents on the dollar. I'm no longer thinking Corey is a building block, but he has one last chance to prove he can be not a liability.

 

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

That's a really dumb bit of speculation. If the Cubs didn't want him before, they SURE won't want him when there are better options available, and Wilson's sorry butt is another year older. Ridiculous. I'll take that bet right now.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If I were the Cubs, I'd forget about the winter ball thing, let his mind reboot, and go into spring thinking he's the CF. If a deal comes along where you're offered value for him, AND you can find yourself an acceptable alternative for CF, pull the trigger. If he can put up .260/.310, I'd take it and run. If not, when Pie is ready sometime next summer, trade him for cents on the dollar. I'm no longer thinking Corey is a building block, but he has one last chance to prove he can be not a liability.

 

Absolutely not. You do not avoid getting a quality CF by putting your faith in Patterson yet AGAIN, that would be gross malfeasance on the part of Jim Hendry. Baker and Hendry both need to call Patterson in their office and give him the Fredo treatment: "You are nothing to me now."

 

I'm torn on whether to try and sign Damon, but Giles is a must-get. And, he can play CF for a year or so until Pie is hopefully ready. So the Cubs don't really NEED to specifically get a CF this offseason, IMO, if they do get Giles. They need to get another OF in general, via trade or FA. And that makes the job easier. For example...

 

Milton Bradley will be available. Can Dusty calm him down? He's got talent. He would actually be a CF for us, at least until Pie.

 

Tampa and Cincinnati have too many OF-ers, and both might finally be ready to move one of them in a trade. They know they need pitching, that's one thing we have. Jonny Gomes or Aubrey Huff? Adam Dunn or Austin Kearns or maybe Ryan Freel?

 

Ryan Klesko is the kind of short-term solution Hendry might like, he's a better version of Burnitz. San Diego might be ready to turn over their OF if they lose Giles.

 

The Mets also have an extra OF. It seems likely they'd stick with Victor Diaz given his youth. But Mike Cameron or Cliff Floyd?

 

With Jeremy Hermida finally here, Florida has no room for Juan Encarnacion.

 

Cleveland doesn't have room for Franklin Gutierrez, Coco Crisp, and Grady Sizemore all at once, do they?

 

So there are options. You don't sit on Patterson and ignore better choices. He gone.

 

Isn't that what USS said? He said not to just dump Patterson, but if you can get a serviceable CF, then do it. Personally I'd rather not have Giles in CF, because then you're half obligated to make sure to have decent to good defenders at the corners. That makes it tougher to find that extra corner OF you were referring to.

[goonys evil twin]

That's a really dumb bit of speculation. If the Cubs didn't want him before, they SURE won't want him when there are better options available, and Wilson's sorry butt is another year older. Ridiculous. I'll take that bet right now.

 

What's so dumb about it? What's your reason for even using that word?

 

The Cubs wanted Wilson, they just didn't want to spend what Colorado wanted. Wilson is exactly the type of player Hendry would go after though.

 

 

He's 31 right now and will turn 32 next July.

[HoopsCubs]

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

Must you ruin my winter before it begins?

 

Not my intention sir. But we know Hendry likes this guy, and he's a free agent, so we have to consider the possibility that Hendry will look at him. And, as I said in another thread, if Wilson accepted a 2 year deal in the $10-12M range AND Hendry addressed corner outfield with a guy like Giles, Dunn, Mench, etc..., I think it would work out fine. Just my opinion.

There is plenty of money to sign Wilson and pay for a stud corner OF. Especially in light of the fact that it seems that Cedeno is going to be starting at either 2B or SS next year.

[HoopsCubs]

That's a really dumb bit of speculation. If the Cubs didn't want him before, they SURE won't want him when there are better options available, and Wilson's sorry butt is another year older. Ridiculous. I'll take that bet right now.

 

So, now I am dumb. Thanks for letting me know.

[CuseCubFan69]

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

Must you ruin my winter before it begins?

 

Not my intention sir. But we know Hendry likes this guy, and he's a free agent, so we have to consider the possibility that Hendry will look at him. And, as I said in another thread, if Wilson accepted a 2 year deal in the $10-12M range AND Hendry addressed corner outfield with a guy like Giles, Dunn, Mench, etc..., I think it would work out fine. Just my opinion.

There is plenty of money to sign Wilson and pay for a stud corner OF. Especially in light of the fact that it seems that Cedeno is going to be starting at either 2B or SS next year.

 

I could handle that if Baker can figure out how to do a lineup. I can just see Perez leading off next year.

[USSoccer]

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

Must you ruin my winter before it begins?

 

Not my intention sir. But we know Hendry likes this guy, and he's a free agent, so we have to consider the possibility that Hendry will look at him. And, as I said in another thread, if Wilson accepted a 2 year deal in the $10-12M range AND Hendry addressed corner outfield with a guy like Giles, Dunn, Mench, etc..., I think it would work out fine. Just my opinion.

There is plenty of money to sign Wilson and pay for a stud corner OF. Especially in light of the fact that it seems that Cedeno is going to be starting at either 2B or SS next year.

 

If you look at it objectively, Wilson, even though he's not very good, would give us a production increase over what Corey would give us, and if he came at about 6-7m/year, it's not that much more than Corey would cost us. Given the lack of CF available, it might not be as bad of a move as it would have been in June...

[USSoccer]

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

Must you ruin my winter before it begins?

 

Not my intention sir. But we know Hendry likes this guy, and he's a free agent, so we have to consider the possibility that Hendry will look at him. And, as I said in another thread, if Wilson accepted a 2 year deal in the $10-12M range AND Hendry addressed corner outfield with a guy like Giles, Dunn, Mench, etc..., I think it would work out fine. Just my opinion.

There is plenty of money to sign Wilson and pay for a stud corner OF. Especially in light of the fact that it seems that Cedeno is going to be starting at either 2B or SS next year.

 

I could handle that if Baker can figure out how to do a lineup. I can just see Perez leading off next year.

 

If Bkaer gets used to him enough in September maybe we could have Murton lead off....

[Transmogrified Tiger]

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

Must you ruin my winter before it begins?

 

Not my intention sir. But we know Hendry likes this guy, and he's a free agent, so we have to consider the possibility that Hendry will look at him. And, as I said in another thread, if Wilson accepted a 2 year deal in the $10-12M range AND Hendry addressed corner outfield with a guy like Giles, Dunn, Mench, etc..., I think it would work out fine. Just my opinion.

There is plenty of money to sign Wilson and pay for a stud corner OF. Especially in light of the fact that it seems that Cedeno is going to be starting at either 2B or SS next year.

 

If you look at it objectively, Wilson, even though he's not very good, would give us a production increase over what Corey would give us, and if he came at about 6-7m/year, it's not that much more than Corey would cost us. Given the lack of CF available, it might not be as bad of a move as it would have been in June...

 

Not that much more? It'd likely be twice as much.

[USSoccer]

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

Must you ruin my winter before it begins?

 

Not my intention sir. But we know Hendry likes this guy, and he's a free agent, so we have to consider the possibility that Hendry will look at him. And, as I said in another thread, if Wilson accepted a 2 year deal in the $10-12M range AND Hendry addressed corner outfield with a guy like Giles, Dunn, Mench, etc..., I think it would work out fine. Just my opinion.

There is plenty of money to sign Wilson and pay for a stud corner OF. Especially in light of the fact that it seems that Cedeno is going to be starting at either 2B or SS next year.

 

If you look at it objectively, Wilson, even though he's not very good, would give us a production increase over what Corey would give us, and if he came at about 6-7m/year, it's not that much more than Corey would cost us. Given the lack of CF available, it might not be as bad of a move as it would have been in June...

 

Not that much more? It'd likely be twice as much.

 

But it's not as if we'd keep Corey, so twice as much as 3.5m is still not that bad. It's paying an extra 3-4m for at least twice the production and similar defense.

[CuseCubFan69]

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

Must you ruin my winter before it begins?

 

Not my intention sir. But we know Hendry likes this guy, and he's a free agent, so we have to consider the possibility that Hendry will look at him. And, as I said in another thread, if Wilson accepted a 2 year deal in the $10-12M range AND Hendry addressed corner outfield with a guy like Giles, Dunn, Mench, etc..., I think it would work out fine. Just my opinion.

There is plenty of money to sign Wilson and pay for a stud corner OF. Especially in light of the fact that it seems that Cedeno is going to be starting at either 2B or SS next year.

 

I could handle that if Baker can figure out how to do a lineup. I can just see Perez leading off next year.

 

If Bkaer gets used to him enough in September maybe we could have Murton lead off....

 

Murton

Walker or Cedeno

Lee

ARam

Mench

Wilson

Barrett

Perez

 

Wow...is Mench a lefty because that would leave just Walker thus meaning Baker will replace Murton with a Holla/Goodwin type player.

[HoopsCubs]

Not that much more? It'd likely be twice as much.

 

I think it would end up being a $2M delta: Corey could earn somewhere in the $3.5-$4.0M range, and the right offer to Preston would be somewhere in the $5.5-$6.0M range. $2M more to Preston is just not a back-breaker for the Cubs this offseason.

[CuseCubFan69]

For good, bad or ugly: Mr. Preston Wilson, your table is now ready.

 

That's a really dumb bit of speculation. If the Cubs didn't want him before, they SURE won't want him when there are better options available, and Wilson's sorry butt is another year older. Ridiculous. I'll take that bet right now.

 

This could be worded a lot better than that Don. There is no reason for you say it like that.

[goonys evil twin]

Corey could earn somewhere in the $3.5-$4.0M range, and the right offer to Preston would be somewhere in the $5.5-$6.0M range. $2M more to Preston is just not a back-breaker for the Cubs this offseason.

 

Is arbitration really that screwed up that Corey would earn at least a $1m raise this year?

 

I know it's tough to cut a guy's salary, but Corey has had as close to a disaster season as you can get. If the Cubs offered $2.9m I can't see an arbiter siding with Patterson at 4.

 

 

The right offer to Preston is about $2m. At the most you consider 2/10, but anything over $4m is a joke. He stinks.

[USSoccer]

Corey could earn somewhere in the $3.5-$4.0M range, and the right offer to Preston would be somewhere in the $5.5-$6.0M range. $2M more to Preston is just not a back-breaker for the Cubs this offseason.

 

Is arbitration really that screwed up that Corey would earn at least a $1m raise this year?

 

I know it's tough to cut a guy's salary, but Corey has had as close to a disaster season as you can get. If the Cubs offered $2.9m I can't see an arbiter siding with Patterson at 4.

 

 

The right offer to Preston is about $2m. At the most you consider 2/10, but anything over $4m is a joke. He stinks.

 

Is he better than what we have at the price we're paying it? Is paying Wilson 5-6m/yr worse than paying Damon 12m for 5 years?