Cubs cheapskate off-season

[AramisRamirez]

I want the cubs to ink furcal, brian giles, a 4th starter, two middle relievers, and a utility player of all high quality. in reality, we're looking at furcal by himself and cheap fill-ins at every position.

 

assume the cubs spend $32M over 4-years to get furcal, which is one year more than suggested in the trib recently. i think we could be looking at an outfield with murton, a re-signed burnitz, and corey opening in CF before pie gets an extended look a month or two into the season. it pains to think of this possibility. i cant fathom expecting to win with those 4 as our main OF rotation in 2006. but you cant expect several high-priced signings either --not with this organization.

 

anyways this lineup doesnt cut it for me:

 

SS furcal

2B walker

1B lee

3B ramirez

RF burnitz

C barrett

LF murton

CF patterson/pie

 

bench: cedeno, neifi perez

 

1-4 its acceptable but if burnitz is in the 5th hole in 2006 ill commit suicide. true, his numbers arent terrible but he's not a 5th hole hitter on a world series winner. you need a brian giles as a true third threat in there. i will riot if we go cheap.

 

as far as pitching is concerned, we need a 4th starter -a lefty is possible. somebody mentioned zito, and if rich allen, corey patterson, and a prospect land us him im all for it. but i wouldnt count on it....

[AC036198]

I don't think Billy Beane will get rid of Zito just yet. Maybe once the moneyball is good enough to allow for Zito to leave.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Once the Moneyball is good?

 

Sorry, I just don't know what that means. Can you explain?

[NCCubFan]

He probably means once enough pitchers from the draft class featured in Moneyball develop as major leaguers.

[AC036198]

Once the Moneyball is good?

 

Sorry, I just don't know what that means. Can you explain?

He got rid of Mukder and Hudson, b/c he had other quality players cheap. Once he can get some more quality pitchers cheap, he'll get rid of Zito when he is too expansive.

[AC036198]

He probably means once enough pitchers from the draft class featured in Moneyball develop as major leaguers.

Yes. This is the moneyball idea. You develop players, get them cheap, and use them. Billy Beane is a master at the moneyball. The A's have been on fire ever since they were 19-32. If Oakland makes the playoffs, Billy Beane has to be executive of the year, as he built a team w/o Mulder and Hudson.

[AramisRamirez]

woah, zito has a 3.37 ERA over 192 IP so far this year. it would take more than rich hill and corey patterson. we'd really have to sweeten the deal to get him. maybe dopirek or even guzman. at this point, i would definitely consider trading angel guzman. we need people at the majors winning us some games. i would give up a package of hill, dopirek or guzman (one of our highest rated prospects), and possibly another decent prospect would get the job done. if we had to throw in corey i would do that too, but we would need an opening day CF for a month or two until pie gets called up.

 

i could see 1 major signing (furcal) and 1 major trade (zito). if we really plan on going with murton and pie in the OF, we absolutely have to stack other parts of the team (ie pitching staff).

 

poor zambrano, he has a 3.00 ERA and only 11 wins to show for it. in his past 10 starts he's had 3 ND's and 1 loss that all should have been wins. he should be 15-5 based on that alone. figure in another couple of times he had no run support and we honestly should be looking at 18-5. he's nearly at the 200 IP-mark and has performed admirably. we may be our opening day starter in 2006.

 

here is my updated version of the Cubs cheapskate off-season.

 

1) ink furcal

2) trade hill, patterson, and dopirek/guzman for barry zito

3) buy out burnitz and re-sign him

4) re-sign neifi perez

 

 

SS furcal

2B walker

1B lee

3B walker

C barrett

RF burnitz

LF murton

CF patterson/pie

 

SP1 prior

Sp2 zambrano

SP3 zito

SP4 wood

SP5 maddux (7.75 ERA in vesting option year).

[radarluv1]

that does not look like a playoff team to me.

[AC036198]

Mad Dog is a dependable stopgap in the #5 hole. In the playoffs, they can make Maddux a reliver.

[AC036198]

The only way we will get Zito is if we offer Billy Beane some package that will fit his moneyball plan.

[NCCubFan]

here is my updated version of the Cubs cheapskate off-season.

 

1) ink furcal

2) trade hill, patterson, and dopirek/guzman for barry zito

3) buy out burnitz and re-sign him

4) re-sign neifi perez

 

 

SS furcal

2B walker

1B lee

3B walker

C barrett

RF burnitz

LF murton

CF patterson/pie

 

SP1 prior

Sp2 zambrano

SP3 zito

SP4 wood

SP5 maddux (7.75 ERA in vesting option year).

Rather ironic that you'd play Walker at two positions simultaneously considering who you're using for your screen name. :lol:

[YearofDaCubs]

It will be interesting to see if the Cubs even hit 100mil payroll again. MacPhail didn't sound too confident of that when he was interviewed to we shall see.

[NewUserName]

Instead of trading for Zito why dont the Cubs read moneyball and use it as an example of running the organization. Oh I know the Cubs success rate is so much better than the A's it just wouldnt make sense. Not only the A's but some other teams that have built within That are better than the Cubs or at least as good with a better upside; Twins, Tigers, Rangers, Devil Rays, Brewers, Reds, Astros, Blue Jays, Reds, Braves. I say forget Frucal and go even cheaper. Its not like the way we doing things now is very successful

[ltb]

Devil Rays, Reds

 

this is a joke, right?

 

these are two of the most poorly-run teams in baseball.

[NewUserName]

The Reds are only a couple of games behind us and have kicked our cans all year. I think it is very realistic to expect them to be better than the Cubs next year if they are willing to trade a outfielder for a front line starter. They also have a couple of players who probably will be even better in the next couple of years.

The Devil Rays have one of the best records in baseball in the 2nd half and are defiantly a team on the rise.

 

Also what about the Cubs makes you think they are better run than the Reds or the devil Rays. It might come as a shock to you but if you would go to other teams sites the Cubs are held up as a team that is mismanaged and inept. Since they have gone about 100 years without a World Championship it is hard to argue against it.

[ltb]

The Reds are only a couple of games behind us and have kicked our cans all year. I think it is very realistic to expect them to be better than the Cubs next year if they are willing to trade a outfielder for a front line starter. They also have a couple of players who probably will be even better in the next couple of years.

The Devil Rays have one of the best records in baseball in the 2nd half and are defiantly a team on the rise.

 

the talent level on a team does not matter when you have people as inept as the devil rays or reds do in their front offices.

[AC036198]

The Reds and D-Rays front offices might be dumb, but they know when not to trade someone w/in the division.

[NewUserName]

Again though do the Cubs have better people running there team than the Reds and the Devil Rays. What is to keep these two teams from succeeding in the next couple of years. Probably the same as the Cubs, bad management. Neither one of these two teams is considering reupping there managers who havent gotten the job done. If everything remains the same for the Cubs(Dusty managing, Hendry bringing in veterens so Dusty will not play youth) The Reds and The Devil Rays will be better than us in the next couple of years.

What is really frustrating is this is probably the 1st since Dallas Green that the Cubs have a functuaning minor league system and with Dusty at the helm of the major league team it is just going to be ruined.

[SouthSideRyan]

Again though do the Cubs have better people running there team than the Reds and the Devil Rays. What is to keep these two teams from succeeding in the next couple of years. Probably the same as the Cubs, bad management. Neither one of these two teams is considering reupping there managers who havent gotten the job done. If everything remains the same for the Cubs(Dusty managing, Hendry bringing in veterens so Dusty will not play youth) The Reds and The Devil Rays will be better than us in the next couple of years.

What is really frustrating is this is probably the 1st since Dallas Green that the Cubs have a functuaning minor league system and with Dusty at the helm of the major league team it is just going to be ruined.

 

The Cubs absolutely have better people running their team than the Devil Rays or Reds. If the Reds had money? Look what they did when they spent a little this offseason. Paul Wilson and Eric Milton. How bout the late 90s D-Rays featuring Greg Vaughn and Vinny Castilla? LaMar and O' Brien are 2 of the worst GMs in baseball.

[NewUserName]

Hawkins, Nomar, Burnitz, Remlinger, Hollandsworth, Rusch. Maybe not as bad as Milton but what do the Cubs have to show for this 30 million in payroll. Also again neither one of those guys is discussing reupping one the worst managers in baseball.

[SAMMYWHO]

Hawkins got us prospects. One who helps now, and another hopefully later. Nomar and Remmy nobody complained at the time. No production brought out the grumblings. Burnitz and Rusch I have no idea why they're on this list. Rusch=see last night, Burnitz=see the multiple threads on his D and left handed pop. Both in my opinion are worth the money. Hollandsworth is gone, let's forget him. He sucked. Just my two cents.

[NewUserName]

I tell you what I agree that both the Reds and Devil Rays are poorly run. I will not concede that the Cubs havent been poorly run. Probably not any better than either the Reds or the D rays. The point still remains that both of those teams are poised to be better than the Cubs in the next couple of years. The reasons are basically that they USE their minor league systems. The Cubs still have given only 1 rookie position player regular full season playing time since 89. This from a team that has had 1 of the highest rated farm systems in baseball the last 6 years. This is not what well run organizations do. Build within and fill gaps from other sources. The Cubs have for my entire lifetime been trying to build from other sources. This is what poorly run teams do.

[SAMMYWHO]

I'll agree the Cubs have no plan. If a poorly run team means you spend more for the same results as Tampa or the Reds than fine. But the Red Sox, Angels and Yankees are all examples of big free agent spenders and they're all pretty good. I'm am also aware the Yankees were really good in the late 90's when they built from within for the most part but they don't do that now like the Angels and Red Sox and they're all in the playoffs most of the time. If that is the trade-off, (spending big bucks to win) than I'm happy being in a playoff race almost every year.

[NewUserName]

The Yankees, REd sox and the Angels all had a decent core of homegrown talent to start with. Also we will never be able to outspend the red sox or the yankees so we would be working from behind to begin with. I am not saying never get a free agent, I am just saying figure out what you have first. An example may be SS. Frucal is about to be paid alot of money this year. Probably more than he is worth. If Cedeno can give us good defence(which looks like a given) and any resemblence of offense(this is probably the major question but he looks good) Why not play him and save money for places that will be a weakness. I would suggest a corner outfielder but wouldnt pay a 35 year old Giles alot of money. If you could somehow get him for 2 years fine but that probably will not happen. So why not let Murton, Cedeno, Pie, Rich Hill and Fontenot have a chance. Probably not do that well this next year but probably better by the end of the season. See where you stand then and fill in the holes. If they try to fill in the holes this off-season they will probably still not be a series contender and may be throwing the money in the wrong direction. Also signing Frucal, Giles, Burnett or bringing in Zito may hamper our ability to resign Lee, Prior and Zambrano.

[SAMMYWHO]

I agree with you totally except I think you are missing the fact that we to have a core of homegrown talent (mostly pitchers). I don't want or think it's necessary to spend money like the Red Sox or Yankees but we are up there in payroll and yes a chunk went to Sosa. I don't want Giles for multi years but I do want Nomar. Since returning he's ripped the cover off the ball and he's supposedly not 100%. They should look at Cedeno as the supersub behind Walker, Nomar and Ramirez. If he can't do it then I would change my plan to get him some playing time. We need to fix the outfield. That should be number one. I wouldn't even talk to Furcal as he wouldn't solve our problems, I would blow up the outfield. Keep Murton as a 4th outfielder since we're still not sure what he's about and finally get some pitching help in the bullpen. Sure up the rotation whether it's Rusch or Dempster in there and then see who can help in house like Hill or Guzman and spend some money on a big name in both the outfield and pitching. I got off the subject a little but basically said what you did with some names of guys. I would really try to fill within but when you got a guy like Nomar I just can't let him walk. Offense is harder to replace than Defense.