Clemens,Carpenter, or Willis for Cy Young? (edit)

[Brian]

I say screw both of them and give it Dontrelle Willis.

 

I say give it to Big Z, just because he's Big Z and he's so much cooler than any other pitcher in the league. :D

[AC036198]

I say screw both of them and give it Dontrelle Willis.

 

I say give it to Big Z, just because he's Big Z and he's so much cooler than any other pitcher in the league. :D

Even better! :D :D :D

[indifferent]

Clemens out of the game after 5 IP and 73 pitches. Don't know what's wrong; assumption is lower back pain.

[indifferent]

Clemens out with strained left hammy.

[1wizard]

Does this performance help Carpenter's chances?

[indifferent]

Does this performance help Carpenter's chances?

 

By default. Let's hope Tony pulls him soon; no need to leave him in, 91 pitches through 7. He's starting the 8th. I'd like to see him pulled after this batter.

[1wizard]

By default. Let's hope Tony pulls him soon; no need to leave him in, 91 pitches through 7. He's starting the 8th. I'd like to see him pulled after this batter.

 

After last night performance, I would leave him in. They need him to be the "Ace" and stop this losing skid. :lol:

[indifferent]

By default. Let's hope Tony pulls him soon; no need to leave him in, 91 pitches through 7. He's starting the 8th. I'd like to see him pulled after this batter.

 

After last night performance, I would leave him in. They need him to be the "Ace" and stop this losing skid. :lol:

 

Well, there's your one game skid ended! Carp with his 20th win, 2.28 ERA, a complete game!

[1wizard]

Well, I personally think Carpenter's performance just put him in the driver's seat for the Cy Young. Willis is the one that could be the biggest challenger for the award.

[indifferent]

Well, I personally think Carpenter's performance just put him in the driver's seat for the Cy Young. Willis is the one that could be the biggest challenger for the award.

 

Willis needs to crank it up then, way behind in K's, WHIP, and ERA.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

120 pitches, wow. I'd be furious if I were a Card fan. No one's going to care if Carpenter wins the Cy(which btw, Clemens still deserves IMO) if he gets hurt and can't get them to the WS.

[AC036198]

120 pitches, wow. I'd be furious if I were a Card fan. No one's going to care if Carpenter wins the Cy(which btw, Clemens still deserves IMO) if he gets hurt and can't get them to the WS.

Sounds like something Dusty would do.

[Brian]

if my vote counted i'd still vote zambrano... haha

[Mike Aller]

If Clemens can somehow manage to convince his team to hit when he pitches and ends up with somewhere around 16-17 wins, I think they have to give it to him.

 

I realize wins are a misleading stat, but unfortunately, they are a stat people look at a lot.

 

Unless he falls apart, Clemens deserves it.

[1wizard]

If Clemens can somehow manage to convince his team to hit when he pitches and ends up with somewhere around 16-17 wins, I think they have to give it to him.

 

I realize wins are a misleading stat, but unfortunately, they are a stat people look at a lot.

 

Unless he falls apart, Clemens deserves it.

 

Clemens has had a great season, yet so did RJ last year. The main point is that Clemens won the award last year based on wins. This year he is losing in that catagory so everyone who has man love for Roger wants to change the criteria. Funny how that works.

 

Roger does not deserve the award based on K's, Base on Balls, innings pitched, wins, CG, or team success. And to be blunt, his 1.57 ERA is not so impressive to warrent the Cy Young despite losing in almost every single catagory. Their whips are very comparable .92 to .98.

 

Carp should win this hands down, IMO.

[1wizard]

Roger's stats last year:

18-4 ERA 2.98 K's 218 214 innings 1.16 whip

 

RJ's stats last year:

16-14 ERA 2.60 K's 290 245 innings .90 whip

 

 

 

Carp's stats this year:

20-4 ERA 2.28 K's 191 213 innings .98 whip

 

Roger's stats this year:

11.6 ERA 1.57 K's 169 189 innings .92 whip

 

 

Looking at the stats Johnson clearly had the better ERA (.38pts better), more K's (72 more), more innings (31 more), and a better whip (.26pts better). By the numbers, Johnson deserved the award last year, but Clemens had more wins. Is there any way that the media could justify giving this years award to Roger based on ERA only this year?

 

 

The funny thing is that Carp's numbers are better than Clemens last year plus he is dominating in the area that Clemens' won the award on (Wins).

[gus_dog]

Roger's stats last year:

18-4 ERA 2.98 K's 218 214 innings 1.16 whip

 

RJ's stats last year:

16-14 ERA 2.60 K's 290 245 innings .90 whip

 

 

 

Carp's stats this year:

20-4 ERA 2.28 K's 191 213 innings .98 whip

 

Roger's stats this year:

11.6 ERA 1.57 K's 169 189 innings .92 whip

 

 

Looking at the stats Johnson clearly had the better ERA (.38pts better), more K's (72 more), more innings (31 more), and a better whip (.26pts better). By the numbers, Johnson deserved the award last year, but Clemens had more wins. Is there any way that the media could justify giving this years award to Roger based on ERA only this year?

 

 

The funny thing is that Carp's numbers are better than Clemens last year plus he is dominating in the area that Clemens' won the award on (Wins).

 

Yes, there is a way. This year is this year, last year was last year. They do not look at last year when voting for this year like you are doing here.

 

If you are looking for consistency in the voting from the media, I don't know that you're going to find it.

 

FTR, I think Carpenter (not 'Carp') will end up winning because of his wins. Whether or not he is the most deserving candidate is highly debateable.

[1wizard]

FTR, I think Carpenter (not 'Carp') will end up winning because of his wins. Whether or not he is the most deserving candidate is highly debateable.

 

Gusdog, was Clemens the most deserving candidate last year? If I had my choice of pitchers, I would have taken Johnson last year and Carp this year.

 

I was not comparing CARP's stats exclusively to Clemens stats last year. My main point is that Clemens won last years award despite not having the better ERA, Whip, k's, or more innings; it was all about the wins last year. Now Clemens now leads in ERA and Whip and cannot win because his team cannot score (see Johnson, Randy). A change in voting would be hypocritical and yes I do expect some consistancy in voting.

 

As for it being debateable, it is only name recognition that makes it so. If the two players switched situation/stats than there would be no argument at all. Clemens would be a land slide winner. Carp would get very little attention in the media.

[gus_dog]

I just think that last year is irrelevant, period.

[Edgeman187]

Carpenter hands down. Gus Dog, your argument holds no water. You are wanting to cut out last year because it kills your argument.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If Clemens can somehow manage to convince his team to hit when he pitches and ends up with somewhere around 16-17 wins, I think they have to give it to him.

 

I realize wins are a misleading stat, but unfortunately, they are a stat people look at a lot.

 

Unless he falls apart, Clemens deserves it.

 

Clemens has had a great season, yet so did RJ last year. The main point is that Clemens won the award last year based on wins. This year he is losing in that catagory so everyone who has man love for Roger wants to change the criteria. Funny how that works.

 

Roger does not deserve the award based on K's, Base on Balls, innings pitched, wins, CG, or team success. And to be blunt, his 1.57 ERA is not so impressive to warrent the Cy Young despite losing in almost every single catagory. Their whips are very comparable .92 to .98.

 

Carp should win this hands down, IMO.

 

Carpenter and Clemens have almost identical K Rates(8.07 to 8.03). Win Shares, VORP, Defense Independent ERA, Runs Prevented, they all easily favor Clemens. You can't just toss away an ERA advantage(especially when Clemens maintains that lead in DERA) that large for the sake that Carpenter's thrown a couple more innings, or worthless things like Wins, team success, and CG.

[gus_dog]

Carpenter hands down. Gus Dog, your argument holds no water. You are wanting to cut out last year because it kills your argument.

 

Huh? I said Carpenter would win.

 

And last year is irrelevant.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And if we are rationalizing the difference between Clemens and Carpenter, lets do so from Carpenter to others. You can make basically the same argument for Peavy over Carpenter. Sure his ERA is .73 higher, but their WHIPs are very close(CC: .98, JP: 1.02), Peavy strikes out more guys, they walk a similar number of guys(CC: 1.8 BB/9, JP: 2.02), and Peavy has a better K/BB by virtue of his significant strikeout advantage. Throw out the team dependent nonsense like Wins and Team Success(although the Padres do look to be playoff bound), and it's the same argument.

[ltb]

The funny thing is that Carp's numbers are better than Clemens last year plus he is dominating in the area that Clemens' won the award on (Wins).

 

i think you're confusing "wins" with "name recognition" and "reputation."

 

last year has nothing to do with this year's cy young.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I likely would have given the award to Johnson last year, and I still believe Clemens deserves it this year.