8/6 Cubs (Maddux) @ Mets (Seo) Loss begins at 12:20 FOX

[sethuel1]

See, I don't think the offesne has been underperforming at all this year. if anything, the offense has been overachieving statistically.

 

The only players I think have underperformed are Zambrano and Prior, and they haven't underperformed to the extent that Lee has overachieved.

Corey didn't underperform? Nomar didn't underperform? Hollandsworth and Dubois didn't underperform? Hairston didn't underpeform? One could make the argument that Burnitz has underperformed as well?

 

Wellemeyer and Leicester didn't underperform? Wood didn't underperform?

 

What team are you watching?

 

Corey did underperform, and his underperformance was exacerbated by hitting leadoff. Nomar wasn't here long enough for his underperformace to be much of a factor, and his injury has probably hurt the offense to a fair degree (though Dusty wouldn't agree with that statement). holly didn't underperform, because he's terrible. Dubois wasn't out there enough to be much of a factor, nor should he have been counted on to contribute much more than he did, especailly with the way he was jerked around. Nor should Hairston, who didn't really underperform by much anyway. Burny has overperformed compared to his last three years. Lee overperformed enough to make up for all of them, in my opinion.

 

Welly and Leicester shouldn't have been counted on to be the big stoppers in the bullpen. Wood was consistently injured. His appearances were poor, I'll admit, and it's his underperformance/injury that has hurt this team the most, in my opinion. But to think that a few bullpen innings from him and Williamson, as well as Nomar and lawton, are going to turn this team around and make them go 20 over .500 the rest of the way is a bit ludicrous.

Edited August 6, 2005 by sethuel1

[Balsa]

Even if we got the playoffs, if blessed by some magical run fairy, we would be horribly outclassed by the other teams.

[Derwood]

I just got home, and was amused by the box score for this game. Macias/Perez/Blanco accounted for all the hits? HA HA HA HA HA! That's just sad.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Even if we got the playoffs, if blessed by some magical run fairy, we would be horribly outclassed by the other teams.

 

Why would you say that? Prior and Zambrano would pitch 4 of 7 games in a series, if not 5. No one has that type of pitching one two pitching punch in the NL save Houston, and it's nearly impossible for both of us get in.

[sethuel1]

I just got home, and was amused by the box score for this game. Macias/Perez/Blanco accounted for all the hits? HA HA HA HA HA! That's just sad.

 

You mean Macias/Blanco/Maddux. perez couldn't have hit in a slow-pitch softball game today

[Balsa]

Why would you say that? Prior and Zambrano would pitch 4 of 7 games in a series, if not 5. No one has that type of pitching one two pitching punch in the NL save Houston, and it's nearly impossible for both of us get in.

Chris Carpenter

Matt Morris

Mark Mulder

 

But it's not just the pitching, its the defense and effort. We're not a playoff team because we can't play fundamental baseball.

[CubsWin]

In order to take the wild card, the Cubs need to go at least 36-16 over our last 52 games. We're playing St. Louis and Houston 20 times in that stretch. We're also throwing Williams, Maddux and Hill 3 out of every 5 games. Derrek Lee is coming back to earth quickly. Burnitz is reverting to his last three years self. In my opinion, any gains from Nomar and Lawton will probably be mostly offset by those two.

 

Thus, I don't see a wild-card berth in the future.

And I'm not saying, never have been saying, that there aren't good reasons to think that the Cubs likely will not make the playoffs. All I'm saying is that there are reasons to think that they still could and those need to be factored in if you are going to argue that your point-of-view is well-balanced. To say that the season is over, hands down, no doubt, the Cubs suck and will continue to suck like you and so many others were just a couple of pages ago is quite different than saying what you just said.

 

And I'm not sure how you could possibly know what record the Cubs are going to have to have in order to win the wild card. That "statement of fact" certainly is an opinion.

[Jon]

My dream lineup for tomorrow:

 

1B - Hollandsworth

2B - Cedeno

SS - Garciaparra

3B - Perez

LF - Murton

CF - Macias

RF - Lawton

C - Blanco

 

 

Let the regulars get splinters on national TV.

[sethuel1]

In order to take the wild card, the Cubs need to go at least 36-16 over our last 52 games. We're playing St. Louis and Houston 20 times in that stretch. We're also throwing Williams, Maddux and Hill 3 out of every 5 games. Derrek Lee is coming back to earth quickly. Burnitz is reverting to his last three years self. In my opinion, any gains from Nomar and Lawton will probably be mostly offset by those two.

 

Thus, I don't see a wild-card berth in the future.

And I'm not saying, never have been saying, that there aren't good reasons to think that the Cubs likely will not make the playoffs. All I'm saying is that there are reasons to think that they still could and those need to be factored in if you are going to argue that your point-of-view is well-balanced. To say that the season is over, hands down, no doubt, the Cubs suck and will continue to suck like you and so many others were just a couple of pages ago is quite different than saying what you just said.

 

And I'm not sure how you could possibly know what record the Cubs are going to have to have in order to win the wild card. That "statement of fact" certainly is an opinion.

 

You know what, the Cubs could get ridiculously lucky. And that would be great. they could leap over 6 teams in unprecedented fashion. Their players could all go on hot streaks. They could not even have to go 36-16 and win 90 games, which, by the way, is the least a team has ever had to win in order to get the wild-card (by the Cubs, in 1998, and LA, in 1996). They could have Maddux suddenly not realize how old he is, or Rich Hill pull a Dontrelle Willis for the rest of the year. But, barring complete miracles, it ain't gonna happen. My point of view, that the Cubs have virtually no chance at making the playoffs, is about the most rational, easily factually supported thing you can come up with.

 

The final idea, that the Cubs cannot be a playoff team, is still an opinion, which is fine with me, because it'll be backed up with the fact that they don't make the playoffs later on.

 

Please continue your insipid "fact vs. opinion" argument, as I am obviously unable to determine what is fact and what is opinion, and certainly the FACT that my OPINION is very easily supported makes it completely unacceptable.

[CubsWin]

In order to take the wild card, the Cubs need to go at least 36-16 over our last 52 games. We're playing St. Louis and Houston 20 times in that stretch. We're also throwing Williams, Maddux and Hill 3 out of every 5 games. Derrek Lee is coming back to earth quickly. Burnitz is reverting to his last three years self. In my opinion, any gains from Nomar and Lawton will probably be mostly offset by those two.

 

Thus, I don't see a wild-card berth in the future.

And I'm not saying, never have been saying, that there aren't good reasons to think that the Cubs likely will not make the playoffs. All I'm saying is that there are reasons to think that they still could and those need to be factored in if you are going to argue that your point-of-view is well-balanced. To say that the season is over, hands down, no doubt, the Cubs suck and will continue to suck like you and so many others were just a couple of pages ago is quite different than saying what you just said.

 

And I'm not sure how you could possibly know what record the Cubs are going to have to have in order to win the wild card. That "statement of fact" certainly is an opinion.

 

You know what, the Cubs could get ridiculously lucky. And that would be great. they could leap over 6 teams in unprecedented fashion. Their players could all go on hot streaks. They could not even have to go 36-16 and win 90 games, which, by the way, is the least a team has ever had to win in order to get the wild-card (by the Cubs, in 1998, and LA, in 1996). They could have Maddux suddenly not realize how old he is, or Rich Hill pull a Dontrelle Willis for the rest of the year. But, barring complete miracles, it ain't gonna happen. My point of view, that the Cubs have virtually no chance at making the playoffs, is about the most rational, easily factually supported thing you can come up with.

 

The final idea, that the Cubs cannot be a playoff team, is still an opinion, which is fine with me, because it'll be backed up with the fact that they don't make the playoffs later on.

 

Please continue your insipid "fact vs. opinion" argument, as I am obviously unable to determine what is fact and what is opinion, and certainly the FACT that my OPINION is very easily supported makes it completely unacceptable.

Wow. What are you responding to? Maybe if you actually read the posts before you responded to them you wouldn't get so offended. I have said consistently throughout this conversation that you do have good reason to think that the Cubs aren't going to make the playoffs. I have said consistently that I agree that they aren't going to make the playoffs if they continue going the way the have the last several games.

 

You rather pessimistically and rudely entered a conversation I was having with someone else and started this conversation by saying that it was fact that the Cubs season was over. I chose to ignore your rudeness and not take that bait. Instead, all I said was that it wasn't fact and that anyone who relates to their negative opinion as fact isn't balancing their opinion out.

 

You then later stated (bolded above) that it wasn't fact, that it was indeed just your opinion. I agreed with your opinion. Then you respond by calling my argument insipid. Your reactions seem erratic to me. What is up?

 

To show that something that has been stated as a fact is actually an opinion is not an insipid argument. In fact, it isn't an argument at all. It is reality. I'm not arguing that something is an opinion, I'm proving it to you. And, whats odd is that you agree with me and then call my "argument" insipid. Whatever.

[CubsWin]

I just got home, and was amused by the box score for this game. Macias/Perez/Blanco accounted for all the hits? HA HA HA HA HA! That's just sad.

That is sad. Wow.

[YearofDaCubs]

For those of you that think the Cubs still have a chance to make the playoffs, well they are not being realistic.

[YearofDaCubs]

My dream lineup for tomorrow:

 

1B - Hollandsworth

2B - Cedeno

SS - Garciaparra

3B - Perez

LF - Murton

CF - Macias

RF - Lawton

C - Blanco

 

 

Let the regulars get splinters on national TV.

I would like that actually. Make a statement that they have been playing so bad.

[YearofDaCubs]

In order to take the wild card, the Cubs need to go at least 36-16 over our last 52 games. We're playing St. Louis and Houston 20 times in that stretch. We're also throwing Williams, Maddux and Hill 3 out of every 5 games. Derrek Lee is coming back to earth quickly. Burnitz is reverting to his last three years self. In my opinion, any gains from Nomar and Lawton will probably be mostly offset by those two.

 

Thus, I don't see a wild-card berth in the future.

And I'm not saying, never have been saying, that there aren't good reasons to think that the Cubs likely will not make the playoffs. All I'm saying is that there are reasons to think that they still could and those need to be factored in if you are going to argue that your point-of-view is well-balanced. To say that the season is over, hands down, no doubt, the Cubs suck and will continue to suck like you and so many others were just a couple of pages ago is quite different than saying what you just said.

 

And I'm not sure how you could possibly know what record the Cubs are going to have to have in order to win the wild card. That "statement of fact" certainly is an opinion.

I would say that the reason we could make the playoffs would be a stretch at best. To many team in front of us. We're not even 3rd in our division anymore.

[Guancous]

I was at the game today and I have tickets to the game tomorrow. That being said, this current team is not a playoff team. They are fundamentally poor on defense and impatient at the plate. Injuries have ravaged the team. We need a Dusty Baker September (last year was an anomaly) to make the wild card.

 

I am ecstatic about 2006. Hendry has provided for a ton of payroll flexibility. I hope Murton gets a shot to hit #2. I hope Pie shows up with plate discipline around late May. I hope that Hill and J. Williams can take additional steps forward. I hope Hendry makes some solid trades to remove some question marks.

 

Yes, I am saying Wait 'Til Next Year. I stuck with the Cubs through their 95 loss seasons and this team is the '27 Yankees comparatively. Sitting at Shea, I saw murals of the Miracle Mets everywhere.

 

Sometimes miracles do happen. It's not like the Cubs aren't due.

[CubsWin]

For those of you that think the Cubs still have a chance to make the playoffs, well they are not being realistic.

No, as a statement of fact, the Cubs do have a chance of making the playoffs. Its just a really small chance. That is the most realistic statement a Cubs fan can make right now. It is the most accurate description of the Cubs current situation. They have a very small chance of making the playoffs.

 

If you want to talk about what is realistic, then you will have to allow that the Cubs do have a chance to make the playoffs. There are things that could happen to make that chance get bigger and there are things that could happen to make that chance get smaller. To say anything else would be either pessimistic or optimistic, but you can't get any more realistic than that.

[YearofDaCubs]

For those of you that think the Cubs still have a chance to make the playoffs, well they are not being realistic.

No, as a statement of fact, the Cubs do have a chance of making the playoffs. Its just a really small chance. That is the most realistic statement a Cubs fan can make right now. It is the most accurate description of the Cubs current situation. They have a very small chance of making the playoffs.

 

If you want to talk about what is realistic, then you will have to allow that the Cubs do have a chance to make the playoffs. There are things that could happen to make that chance get bigger and there are things that could happen to make that chance get smaller. To say anything else would be either pessimistic or optimistic, but you can't get any more realistic than that.

I'll give it to you. There's a small chance they make it to the playoffs and a big chance they will not.

[neely crenshaw]

once again maddux pitches well in a loss. people call for his head but the truth is has pitched very well in his last 5 save for one bad outing(really bad) he could be sitting at 14-15 wins right now.

[CubsWin]

For those of you that think the Cubs still have a chance to make the playoffs, well they are not being realistic.

No, as a statement of fact, the Cubs do have a chance of making the playoffs. Its just a really small chance. That is the most realistic statement a Cubs fan can make right now. It is the most accurate description of the Cubs current situation. They have a very small chance of making the playoffs.

 

If you want to talk about what is realistic, then you will have to allow that the Cubs do have a chance to make the playoffs. There are things that could happen to make that chance get bigger and there are things that could happen to make that chance get smaller. To say anything else would be either pessimistic or optimistic, but you can't get any more realistic than that.

I'll give it to you. There's a small chance they make it to the playoffs and a big chance they will not.

Thank you. Absolutely what I've been saying all along.