7/30 D'Backs(Gosling) @ Cubs (Hill) 3:05 CT, WGN

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It would be nice if Murton got to hit higher than Neifi in the lineup.

 

Actually, in this lineup I think Murton fits in well in front of the pitcher. Murton is more likely than Perez to turn over the lineup by getting on base thus allowing the pitcher to hit or sacrifice. Another benefit of Neifi batting 7th is if he can get on base Matt can potentially drive him in. Conversely, Neifi has the lowest OBP of all the regulars so there is a greater chance that the pitcher will leadoff more often. All things being equal, you don't want Neifi batting 8th.

 

I've heard these theories before and I don't buy any of them. The advantages of dumping someone like Neifi in the 8 hole easily outweigh the disadvantages IMO.

 

There is a big advantage to turning over the lineup and allowing our 3,4,5 hitters more opportunities to bat. Considering Neifi's sub 300 OBP there is an outstanding chance that the pitcher will always leadoff. Additionally, it's more advantageous to keep our pitchers off the base paths even though most of them are decent hitters. I contend that its better to have the pitcher come up in a sacrifice situation...

 

If you want to turn the lineup over more, then Murton should be hitting where he can get more PA's than Neifi. I don't buy the idea of keeping the pitcher off the basepaths. You're much more likely to waste runners that are on in the 7 hole by hitting Neifi than by hitting him 8th. Straight forward, you'll score more runs on the whole with Murton hitting in front of Neifi.

[Blueheart05]

It would be nice if Murton got to hit higher than Neifi in the lineup.

 

Actually, in this lineup I think Murton fits in well in front of the pitcher. Murton is more likely than Perez to turn over the lineup by getting on base thus allowing the pitcher to hit or sacrifice. Another benefit of Neifi batting 7th is if he can get on base Matt can potentially drive him in. Conversely, Neifi has the lowest OBP of all the regulars so there is a greater chance that the pitcher will leadoff more often. All things being equal, you don't want Neifi batting 8th.

 

 

 

He's the worst hitter in the lineup. There's a much higher chance of Neifi stranding runners, which is more important than turning the lineup over, or getting on base for the 8 hitter. If Murton hits 7th, he's going to get more runners to drive in than in the 8 spot. Again, he's the worst hitter in the lineup(by far), he should be hitting in the lowest spot.

The 7th slot is not considered an RBI position.

 

The 8th slot is not considered an RBI position either, yet you specifically mentioned possible Murton RBI opportunities as a reason for putting Murton 8th. Be a little more consisitent.

 

Yes, I mentioned it as a benefit but not the purpose of him batting 8th. I think that Neifi is more likely to make the first out in an inning that starts Perez, Muron, and the pitcher. However, with Murton batting 8th there is a chance that he can get on base (walk or a hit) and or collect an RBI. The pitcher would be asked to sacrifice. No NL team's bottom of the order is stellar. You just ask that those guys work the count and try to get on base especially in front of the pitcher.

[frostwyrm]

It would be nice if Murton got to hit higher than Neifi in the lineup.

 

Actually, in this lineup I think Murton fits in well in front of the pitcher. Murton is more likely than Perez to turn over the lineup by getting on base thus allowing the pitcher to hit or sacrifice. Another benefit of Neifi batting 7th is if he can get on base Matt can potentially drive him in. Conversely, Neifi has the lowest OBP of all the regulars so there is a greater chance that the pitcher will leadoff more often. All things being equal, you don't want Neifi batting 8th.

 

I've heard these theories before and I don't buy any of them. The advantages of dumping someone like Neifi in the 8 hole easily outweigh the disadvantages IMO.

 

There is a big advantage to turning over the lineup and allowing our 3,4,5 hitters more opportunities to bat. Considering Neifi's sub 300 OBP there is an outstanding chance that the pitcher will always leadoff. Additionally, it's more advantageous to keep our pitchers off the base paths even though most of them are decent hitters. I contend that its better to have the pitcher come up in a sacrifice situation...

 

I think you're a little too obsessed with turning over the lineup. Neifi at 7th gives us more stranded runners and killed rallies, and putting Murton at 8th makes it difficult for him to get good pitches to hit. Of course it would also make it tough for Neifi to get good pitches, but who cares? He's an offensive non-entity.

[jaydee]

neifi has not walked since the asb. interesting .......i really think Dusty must of just been trying to be polite by saying u can't just you put nomar in when he comes back...i hope

[Flames24Rulz]

neifi has not walked since the asb. interesting .......i really think Dusty must of just been trying to be polite by saying u can't just you put nomar in when he comes back...i hope

 

dude walks clog up the bases. Neifi is doing everything right man.

[Geech]

If both hitters are in the lineup anyway, I'm not sure I understand how swapping them, or not swapping them, will make the lineup turn over any faster.

[Blueheart05]

It would be nice if Murton got to hit higher than Neifi in the lineup.

 

Actually, in this lineup I think Murton fits in well in front of the pitcher. Murton is more likely than Perez to turn over the lineup by getting on base thus allowing the pitcher to hit or sacrifice. Another benefit of Neifi batting 7th is if he can get on base Matt can potentially drive him in. Conversely, Neifi has the lowest OBP of all the regulars so there is a greater chance that the pitcher will leadoff more often. All things being equal, you don't want Neifi batting 8th.

 

I've heard these theories before and I don't buy any of them. The advantages of dumping someone like Neifi in the 8 hole easily outweigh the disadvantages IMO.

 

There is a big advantage to turning over the lineup and allowing our 3,4,5 hitters more opportunities to bat. Considering Neifi's sub 300 OBP there is an outstanding chance that the pitcher will always leadoff. Additionally, it's more advantageous to keep our pitchers off the base paths even though most of them are decent hitters. I contend that its better to have the pitcher come up in a sacrifice situation...

 

If you want to turn the lineup over more, then Murton should be hitting where he can get more PA's than Neifi. I don't buy the idea of keeping the pitcher off the basepaths. You're much more likely to waste runners that are on in the 7 hole by hitting Neifi than by hitting him 8th. Straight forward, you'll score more runs on the whole with Murton hitting in front of Neifi.

 

There is no way of knowing if more runs will be scored by a switch of the 7th and 8th hitters. By the way, I'm not asking you to buy anything. I understand your argument but apparently you are not open enough to consider the validity of the opposing view.

 

I read alot of comments in the game threads and by and large I don't challenge the views of others but the bottom line is none of us are major league managers and as such we may not consider all of the advantages and disadvantages involved in setting lineups or making in-game moves.

 

Yesterday I was reading the board while most people called for Aramis to pinch hit for Macias. That move didn't make sense with a base open. Melvin was more likely to walk him. Additionally, after Macias got on base, it was a great move to allow Barrett to bat because he has a better chance to break up a DP.

 

Another major bone of contention here is the L/R lineup. I know that many of us feel that Aramis should always bat cleanup yet I was delighted and a bit surprised to hear Steve Stone applaud the Left/Right lineup stagger( where Burnitz bats cleanup against righties). It is a tactic that forces opposing mangers to switch relivers late in the game. Having said that, I do not always agree with Dusty's moves but it does me no good to second or first guess. I am just a fan that wants this team to win. The players have to execute no matter where they hit.

[Warren Brusstar]

neifi has not walked since the asb. interesting .......i really think Dusty must of just been trying to be polite by saying u can't just you put nomar in when he comes back...i hope

 

That's not really what he said.

[Blueheart05]

It would be nice if Murton got to hit higher than Neifi in the lineup.

 

Actually, in this lineup I think Murton fits in well in front of the pitcher. Murton is more likely than Perez to turn over the lineup by getting on base thus allowing the pitcher to hit or sacrifice. Another benefit of Neifi batting 7th is if he can get on base Matt can potentially drive him in. Conversely, Neifi has the lowest OBP of all the regulars so there is a greater chance that the pitcher will leadoff more often. All things being equal, you don't want Neifi batting 8th.

 

I've heard these theories before and I don't buy any of them. The advantages of dumping someone like Neifi in the 8 hole easily outweigh the disadvantages IMO.

 

There is a big advantage to turning over the lineup and allowing our 3,4,5 hitters more opportunities to bat. Considering Neifi's sub 300 OBP there is an outstanding chance that the pitcher will always leadoff. Additionally, it's more advantageous to keep our pitchers off the base paths even though most of them are decent hitters. I contend that its better to have the pitcher come up in a sacrifice situation...

 

I think you're a little too obsessed with turning over the lineup. Neifi at 7th gives us more stranded runners and killed rallies, and putting Murton at 8th makes it difficult for him to get good pitches to hit. Of course it would also make it tough for Neifi to get good pitches, but who cares? He's an offensive non-entity.

 

"obsessed" wow, that's strong. Like most teams, this club's middle of the lineup is its meat. It only makes sense to want them to get as many at bats as possible. Murton doesnt need good pitches to hit all the time; what's wrong with him taking a walk and allowing the pitcher to sacrifice with less than 2 outs?

[jjgman21]

If both hitters are in the lineup anyway, I'm not sure I understand how swapping them, or not swapping them, will make the lineup turn over any faster.

 

exactly. especially batting back to back. if the inning begins with the sixth hitter, or works its way to the seven hole with 1 out, both are going to bat, both have a chance to make an out and fail to turn the lineup over. the exception being if the 7th hitter GIDPs, which Neifi does at a higher rate than just about anyone in baseball even though he's batted behind terrible OBP guys most of the year.

 

thus, the only logical thing to do is bat the guy more likely to drive in runs in the seven hole. unfortunately logic plays little part in our managers decisions.

 

maybe Neifi would actually take a walk if he were being pitched around to get to the pitcher.

[jjgman21]

just wanted to mention how thrilled I am that the Cubs get to face a soft-tossing lefty they have never seen before.

 

you'd think they'd make the adjustment, but they never seem to.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Hendry interview in the 2nd inning.

[Flames24Rulz]

screaming liner caught by Murton for out #1.

[Blueheart05]

Cintron singles to Left

[Jon]

The wind sure helped with that one. Fastball belt high and right down the middle.

[XZero771679666304]

Gonzo flies out to deep right.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think I'm already tired of this ump's strike call.

[Flames24Rulz]

Glaus pops up, but wow..i think Hill needs more work on looking guys back.

[Fred Hornkohl]

TOP OF THE FIRST INNING

 

Clayton flied out to left field

Cintron singled to left field

Gonzalez flied out to deep right field, Cintron holding first

Glaus popped out to shortstop

 

0 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors, 1 men left on base

 

           1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9    R H E
Arizona    0                    0 1 0 
CUBS       .                    0 0 0 

 

pitcher     IP  H  R ER BB  K HR PIT
Hill       1.0  1  0  0  0  0  0  20 

[Jon]

I think I'm already tired of this ump's strike call.

Oh yeah. Dowdy is already getting on my nerves.

 

Not a bad day for Hill to pitch. 20 pitch first.

[XZero771679666304]

I hate to say it, but Hairston hasn't been doing a whole lot lately.

[Fred Hornkohl]

I hate to say it, but Hairston hasn't been doing a whole lot lately.

 

Quite the understatement.....

 

Hairston       AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR  TB RBI  BB  SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
07/23 - 07/29  22   0   4   0   0   0   4   0   2   2  0.182  0.250  0.182  0.432

[XZero771679666304]

Damn wind. :evil:

[Flames24Rulz]

stinkin wind :evil:

[Fred Hornkohl]

BOTTOM OF THE FIRST INNING

 

Hairston grounded out to third, 5-3

Walker flied out to left field

Lee flied out to the wall in right center field

 

0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, 0 men left on base

 

           1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9    R H E
Arizona    0                    0 1 0 
CUBS       0                    0 0 0