Raffy not a Hall of Famer

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Palmeiro's a no-doubt HOFer.

 

Andre Dawson? We can begin talking about him after the extremely underrated and underappreciated Tim Raines is inducted.

 

There's no doubt that Raines belongs.

[Soul]

Raffy has to be in. And I can't believe some people think Raffy was on the roids. The guy has been the same size his whole career.

 

3000 hits and 500 homers? How is this even a debate?

 

He changed a few shirt sizes right around the time he joined the Texas Rangers. Who showed up at around the same time? You guessed it, Jose Canseco. This season he has obviously lost quite a bit of weight, right along with Sosa, Giambi, and others.

 

But he never got caught, so it doesn't matter. His power numbers began when he met Canseco, and he did size up quite a bit.

 

Like I said, he's in. Along with everyone else who didn't get caught.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

I had no idea until I looked it up, but Rafael Palmeiro hasn't been on the disabled list since 1987.

[Coach C]

I had no idea until I looked it up, but Rafael Palmeiro hasn't been on the disabled list since 1987.

 

Wow, that's impressive. I knew he was consistent for the most part, but, to be healthy that long is just unheard of.

[CubRock2]

Skip Bayless is awful. Usually hate to jump on the pile, but this is an exception. There's credible, hardworking journalists, TV personalities, and radio talk show hosts that struggle to find jobs, yet this blowhard gets work consistently. I can understand how Joe Morgan and Joe Carter get work, having at least played the game, but what has Bayless ever done to make you listen more.

 

Like "The Real World," I can just watch Skip and think to myself "Damn, I must be doing something right."

 

Palmeiro is in. First Ballot. If he plays another year, Only Mays and Aaron will be with him in the 600 HR/3,000 Hits club. You cannot reasonably argue against that greatness.

 

I love the Hawk, but staying healthy is part of the "greatness." Sure, another 5 years would have gotten him in, but that the way it goes. Happens pretty often. Could it be happening to Scott Rolen? Anyway, I want Hawk in, like Vince, because I loved him. He made the Cubs watchable (along with Ryno) in the late 80's before the days of Gracie.

[CubRock2]

I had no idea until I looked it up, but Rafael Palmeiro hasn't been on the disabled list since 1987.

 

He only played 111 Games in 1994. Does anyone know why? I sure as heck don't get it.

[Outshined_One]

I had no idea until I looked it up, but Rafael Palmeiro hasn't been on the disabled list since 1987.

 

He has spent some amount of time at DH. That always helps.

[Coach C]

I had no idea until I looked it up, but Rafael Palmeiro hasn't been on the disabled list since 1987.

 

He only played 111 Games in 1994. Does anyone know why? I sure as heck don't get it.

 

That was the strike-shortned season.

[CubRock2]

He changed a few shirt sizes right around the time he joined the Texas Rangers. Who showed up at around the same time? You guessed it, Jose Canseco. This season he has obviously lost quite a bit of weight, right along with Sosa, Giambi, and others.

 

There's not real evidence to back up the idea of Raffy juicing. From 1988 - 1994, he slowly and annually ('92 his only real hiccup) raised his AB's, Walks, HR's, RBI's, OBP, and AVG and kept his K rate steady. He peaked when most players do, 5-7 years into the bigs. He simply learned how to play well and did it for over 15 years. His biggest weakness is his inability to find a winning team to play on.

 

Raffy was improving before Jose was around, and continued long after he left. He never had a dramatic size shift, and his increases and decreases in production were right along where age and experience would have it. If he juiced, he's brilliant for perfectly timing it. :roll:

[CubRock2]

I had no idea until I looked it up, but Rafael Palmeiro hasn't been on the disabled list since 1987.

 

He only played 111 Games in 1994. Does anyone know why? I sure as heck don't get it.

 

That was the strike-shortned season.

 

:hangs head in embarassment:

 

I should have known that. But the Durham Bulls Athletic Park sells big 'ol beers and I'm just not making too many connections right now. :oops:

[Soul]

He changed a few shirt sizes right around the time he joined the Texas Rangers. Who showed up at around the same time? You guessed it, Jose Canseco. This season he has obviously lost quite a bit of weight, right along with Sosa, Giambi, and others.

 

There's not real evidence to back up the idea of Raffy juicing. From 1988 - 1994, he slowly and annually ('92 his only real hiccup) raised his AB's, Walks, HR's, RBI's, OBP, and AVG and kept his K rate steady. He peaked when most players do, 5-7 years into the bigs. He simply learned how to play well and did it for over 15 years. His biggest weakness is his inability to find a winning team to play on.

 

Raffy was improving before Jose was around, and continued long after he left. He never had a dramatic size shift, and his increases and decreases in production were right along where age and experience would have it. If he juiced, he's brilliant for perfectly timing it. :roll:

 

Not really. The most Raffy ever hit was 26 before Jose arrived in Texas. And it was with 631 ABs. That's 1 HR every 24.25 ABs. Not exactly lightning, my dear Watson.

 

Canseco arrives in 1992, during probably Raffy's worst season as a pro. 22 HRs in 608 ABs (.268 avg). That's 1 HR every 27.6 ABs. With his average dipping and the production falling off, Texas signed Jose as an insurance policy. It worked, but in ways they could not have imagined.

 

In 1993, after an entire offseason having known Jose Canseco, Rafael Palmiero became a different ballplayer. He hit 37 HRs in 597 ABs. That's 1 HR every 16ABs. An unbelievable improvement that has never been seen in baseball outside Barry Bonds---who was totally clean, right? :roll:

 

A brief hiccup in 1994 (1 HR every 18.9ABs during the strike season---still much better than before) and the rest is history.

 

Au contraire---it's very good *anectodal* evidence that Raffy used steroids. Certainly not enough to go after the guy in any legal sense, of course. Certainly I wouldn't claim it to be proof in any way. But then again, we're not even going to uncover the total truth about admitted users like Jason Giambi, so fans are left to wonder about nearly all ballplayers. And the case against Raffy is, by comparison, stronger than most other ballplayers.

 

Remember, not all steroid users develop into gorillas---it depends on how often you use and how you work out afterwards. And not all users develop facial acne, either. Sosa obviously did, but Canseco did not. It's a common side effect, but not universal.

[OleMissCub]

Raffy has the Mississippi record for most homers by any college player in history and he got that goal in 3 years. You see pictures of him from college all the time around here and he doesn't look that much different. I think he's always been a power hitter, it just took him some time to get used to pro pitching. I really dont' think he is/was a juicer. I just think he's got a beautiful lefty swing that is conducive to homers.

 

Whether or not he's a HOF'er.....uh...duh. In baseball all we have to go on is statistics, and his statistics are some of the best the game has ever seen.

 

and oh ya, what an incredibly stupid article. Skip, so Curt Schilling, a man with under 200 career wins is in the hall, but not a man with 3000 hits and 600 homers?? What a tool.

 

WOW,he's really beloved at Mississippi State. You know you've made it when you are a meal plan for freshmen.

 

http://www.msstate.edu/dept/dining/meal_plans/images/palmeiro.gif

[neely crenshaw]

bayless says things simply to get a rise out of his audience. whether in print,on the radio or tv. his opinion usually is the one that will get the biggest reaction...good or bad.

ralph is a hall of famer. his stats alone get him in. the biggest factor is that he should be one of the best players at his postion during his time. he was. look at mcguire...he is a shoo in right? he in no way compares to ralph as an all around player or hitter. he hit hrs and a got a ton of noterity because of maris and also the bash brothers. he also had seasons where he hovered around .200.

[rocket]

Not really. The most Raffy ever hit was 26 before Jose arrived in Texas. And it was with 631 ABs. That's 1 HR every 24.25 ABs. Not exactly lightning, my dear Watson.

 

Canseco arrives in 1992, during probably Raffy's worst season as a pro. 22 HRs in 608 ABs (.268 avg). That's 1 HR every 27.6 ABs. With his average dipping and the production falling off, Texas signed Jose as an insurance policy. It worked, but in ways they could not have imagined.

 

In 1993, after an entire offseason having known Jose Canseco, Rafael Palmiero became a different ballplayer. He hit 37 HRs in 597 ABs. That's 1 HR every 16ABs. An unbelievable improvement that has never been seen in baseball outside Barry Bonds---who was totally clean, right? :roll:

 

A brief hiccup in 1994 (1 HR every 18.9ABs during the strike season---still much better than before) and the rest is history.

 

Au contraire---it's very good *anectodal* evidence that Raffy used steroids. Certainly not enough to go after the guy in any legal sense, of course. Certainly I wouldn't claim it to be proof in any way. But then again, we're not even going to uncover the total truth about admitted users like Jason Giambi, so fans are left to wonder about nearly all ballplayers. And the case against Raffy is, by comparison, stronger than most other ballplayers.

 

Remember, not all steroid users develop into gorillas---it depends on how often you use and how you work out afterwards. And not all users develop facial acne, either. Sosa obviously did, but Canseco did not. It's a common side effect, but not universal.

 

I didn't read the book, but did Jose say that he introduced steroids to Raffy? Because if he didn't say that, I think it's ridiculous to find some sort of connection between the fact that Raffy's 1st offensive explosion season came when Jose joined his team.

[treebird]

I didn't read the book, but did Jose say that he introduced steroids to Raffy?

 

he did

[rocket]

I didn't read the book, but did Jose say that he introduced steroids to Raffy?

 

he did

 

aight