World Cup of Baseball: Disaster Waiting to Happen

[jaydee]

They're meaningless because they're just PR events. ... these will just be glorified spring training exhibition games.

I don't think that's how the players will view these games. I think they'll be played with passion. I think they'll be played to win. I understand your concerns about injuries but I think these players deserve the chance to represent their countries. And the prospect of a Japan, USA, Cuba, Dominica Republic/Venezuela final four has my head spinning.

 

I agree with 1908. I am a big Hockey fan, and too most players and a lot of fans the World Championship or World Cup games mean a lot. Do soccer players only care about their club teams? That is what the MLB/NHL/NBA are. Club teams. In many many sports there is also an international stage, and players take pride in representing their country.

 

If a guy gets hurt in these games, I am guessing that he was going to get hurt anyways.... pitcher injuries are wear and tear and are going to happen sooner or later. If its a freak injury like Nomar's this year, then there is nothing you can do about it, it could just as easily of come in ST....

 

And its every 4 years because all World Cup tournaments are every 4 years...

 

I don't quite understand what that last line is meant for.

 

I completely disagree with the idea that injuries are going to happen no matter what and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

Futbol players care about the World Cup because the World Cup is a huge undertaking that has been around longer than many of the pro leagues. It's part of the futbol culture. These guys dreamed for their entire life to be a part of those teams. It's too late in the pro sports cycle to develop a new world cup and have it become such a great cultural phenomenom.

 

If soccer didn't have it's world cup, and they decided to just invent one today, it would never become what it currently is in reality. Likewise, people comparing this tourny to soccer's world cup have to wake up to reality and realize this will be nothing like that.

 

soccer has a lot of other huge international tournies like eurocup, or right now the gold cup in NA, and the players care about those as well. They also care about their under-21 and under-18 tournaments. Same goes for Hockey.

 

Just because baseball doesn't have an international stage doesn't mean it somehow shouldn't or can't. Soccer, Rugby, Hockey, Track and Field, basketball... all these athletes manage to find time to take part in international competition. I honestly don't think baseball has some huge injury risk compared to these, in fact I would argue that it is far less and many of the most serious injuries in baseball are from long term overuse which this tournament won't have any large effect on. If PC are put in that concern will be basically gone

 

The main thing is for a long time baseball was basically like football, in that is was almost entirely american so there could be no international stage. Now that the game is becoming more international, there is no reason to not have an international stage. IF baseball wants to become international they have to have tournaments like this, or it will not move up to the soccer/basketball/hockey (although hockey is limited by costs to mostly wealthy nations) level worldwide...

[Moller1679666555]

I think this is a great idea, but am obviously coming from a different point of view, being an international.

Every other major international sport has a World Cup/Championship, I don't see why baseball shouldn't either.

I think the players will relish the chance to represent their country. You only have to look at the HR Derby yesterday to see how crazy the Venezuelans were going for Abreu.

 

Futbol players care about the World Cup because the World Cup is a huge undertaking that has been around longer than many of the pro leagues. It's part of the futbol culture. These guys dreamed for their entire life to be a part of those teams. It's too late in the pro sports cycle to develop a new world cup and have it become such a great cultural phenomenom.

 

Rugby Union has only recently started having a World Cup (1987 was the first, is now held every 4 years), and it is now regarded as the biggest event in a player's career.

Cricket is much the same, although the World Cup started about 10-15 years earlier.

[SaorsaDaonnan]

I too look skeptically at this. But it does seem to me that an important part of the argument for it is being ignored. To play devil's advocate:

 

Most of us have been talking about this from our own point of view...that is, from the point of view of American baseball fans. And while I'm sure that Selig et al are hoping for a domestic ratings and merchandising spike, as well as possibly higher overall interest in the sport, there is much more to this.

 

I think the main idea behind this is the development of international interest in the sport. Whereas it may be fair to say that our baseball fans -at least, the diehards- don't have a lot of interest in these things, it does appear that in areas like Latin America and Japan, there is tremendous interest in what it going on in foreign leagues such as our own, and therefore significant opportunity.

 

It could reasonably be argued that significant increases in MLB's profile are possible in many of these countries. A larger fan base obviously correlates with increased revenues. So in this respect, there may be a strong business case for the tournament. This would be especially true if MLB can manage to convert, for instance, Dominican interest in Vladdy to interest in the Angels. If that were possible, not only could they sell both jerseys (actually, with alternate jerseys there would be even more options), but another important change could take place: they may suddenly start watching the games, either through broadcast TV rights deals or internet broadcasting. As we all know, those are powerful drivers of MLB's profit margin, and areas which might not have much overhead or risk.

 

It is also clear that Selig views MLB as an organization entrusted with protecting and promoting the game itself, and that this "stewardship' of the game demands its promotion at all levels and in as many fora as possible. This is doubtless an additional factor, and one which could concievably pay off in the sense of a much larger pool of players to choose from, better international scouting, ect. There is also the long-term possibility that MLB franchises themselves could exist abroad (Canada aside).

 

The interaction with the Japanese leagues appears to have been tremendously lucrative and is probably the sort of thing MLB wants to promote across the board, though perhaps it is an optimistic comparision outside of the DR.

 

If these are the motivations, it is perhaps less important if US fan interest isn't very strong, or if US players aren't motivated to play. Either situation would probably not be enough to mitigate these advantages.

 

But do these advantages justify it? I say that it depends on the circumstances. There is a potential problem for MLB teams- this cannot be denied. And so, if this is to work fairly, there would need to be a framework for compensation/risk reduction for the teams- it's not fair to expect them to pay for guys on the DL for injuries sustained in international play. Suppose Vladdy pulls his back, and has season ending surgery. Even if the Angels were completely off the hook for his salary, getting that 14 mil or whatever in March isn't going to fully compensate them, because at that point in the season no player of comparable skill is likely to be available for any price...it's not just the money. And if it's a multiyear contract, this all gets much more convoluted. Let alone if there are arguments about a guy who returns healthy enough to play, but who isn't the same afterwards.

 

The Player's Union would obviously require that all parameters of the contract be fulfilled by someone; so if the Angels were released for a period of time, someone else (MLB) would have to foot the bill.

 

These issues would be exceedingly difficult to resolve, and I don't have confidence in baseball's ability to resolve them satisfactorily (particularly not after the Expos debacle). If they aren't worked out, I have no choice but to oppose the games. It simply wouldn't fair for the league office to force the 30 organizations to "take one for the team." That sort of nonvoluntary collectivism is something I stand against.

[sweetpeteman]

what I fine funny: In reality, there are only 7 countries... Peurto Rico, by definition, is part of the USA. Their citizens are considered US citizens, and their head of state is listed as George W. Bush.

 

 

 

 

(PR, like Guam, is a commonwealth of the US and has voted many times to stay as such, same as Guam).

[Derwood]

Dominican Republic and Venezuela are going to OWN this tourney.

 

I did a little research into the best Dominican players. They won't have deep pitching and I couldn't find a good catcher, but check this out:

 

P Bartolo Colon

P Pedro Martinez

 

1B Albert Pujols

2B Alfonso Soriano

3B Adrian Beltre

3B Aramis Ramirez

SS Miguel Tejada

SS Rafael Furcal

OF Jose Guillen

OF Vladimir Guerrero

OF Sammy Sosa

OF Manny Ramirez

DH David Ortiz

 

 

Venezuela has guys like, oh, Zambrano, Cabrera, Johan Santana....

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

In this chat, Buster Olney comments on the World Cup.

 

Privately, many baseball executives -- many, many, many -- think the thing is going to turn into a debacle, because of the timing of it, because the Yankees and then other teams will be reluctant to let their guys participate, and because once a major player is injured in one of these games -- and that's going to happen, inevitably -- the teams will essentially pull their guys out. It's like watching a slow-moving train wreck take place; I can't believe they didn't pick a better time of the year to do this. The bottom line is this: The world cup is a great idea, but if they're going to do it right, they simply need to take a couple of weeks off in late July -- and they won't do that, because of the money made during the regular season. They're trying to create another financial vehicle without cutting into the regular season at all, and I think because of that, it's going to turn into a mess.

[wvcbxl]

Great post by SaorsaDaonnan summing up the pro's and con's of this event. If baseball wants to 'internationalize', then there's no option but to hold something like this tournament.

 

There is a potential problem for MLB teams- this cannot be denied. And so, if this is to work fairly, there would need to be a framework for compensation/risk reduction for the teams- it's not fair to expect them to pay for guys on the DL for injuries sustained in international play. Suppose Vladdy pulls his back, and has season ending surgery. Even if the Angels were completely off the hook for his salary, getting that 14 mil or whatever in March isn't going to fully compensate them, because at that point in the season no player of comparable skill is likely to be available for any price...it's not just the money. And if it's a multiyear contract, this all gets much more convoluted. Let alone if there are arguments about a guy who returns healthy enough to play, but who isn't the same afterwards.

 

The exact same argument is valid in soccer. Yes, the national federations obviously insure the players they call up for international duty, but if and when a key player (for his club team) gets injured, that team has the problem of not having a valid replacement available. Unless that team is called Real Madrid. :roll:

[LoneStarCubFan]

Baseball America has been out in front on the coverage of this. They even broke down potential starting line-ups for each team. Note that this was done before it was announced that active MLB managers could not lead these teams so Felipe Alou, Ozzzie Guillen, etc. won't be managing their national teams.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/050711worldcup.html

 

IMO, this would be a pretty good US Team:

 

Catchers: Jason Varitek, Boston; Joe Maurer, Minnesota

 

1B: Derrek Lee, Chicago; Mark Texieria, Texas

 

2B: Brian Roberts, Baltimore

 

3B: Scott Rolen, St. Louis; Alex Rodriguez, New York Yankees

 

SS: Derek Jeter, New York Yankees; Michael Young, Texas (also 2B)

 

LF: Adam Dunn, Cincinnati

 

CF: Torii Hunter, Minnesota

 

RF: Gary Sheffield, New York Yankees

 

BUOF: Jim Edmonds, St. Louis; Lance Berkman, Houston

 

DH: Texieria or Berkman

 

Rotation: Roger Clemens, Houston; Dontrelle Willis, Florida; Greg Maddux, Chicago; Mark Mulder, St. Louis; Mark Prior, Chicago

 

Bullpen: Roy Oswalt, Houston; Ben Sheets, Milwaukee; Mike Hampton, Atlanta; Mark Buehrle, White Sox; B.J. Ryan, Baltimore; Huston Street, Oakland; Brad Lidge, Houston; Billy Wagner, Philadelphia

 

Line-up:

 

Roberts, 2b

Jeter, SS

Lee, 1B

Sheffield, RF

Rolen, 3B

Varitek, C

Dunn, LF

Hunter, CF

Texieria, DH

 

I left Bonds out because I don't think he'll play. If he does, drop Berkman and put Dunn on the bench.

[1908]

Baseball America has been out in front on the coverage of this. They even broke down potential starting line-ups for each team.

Yep, a lot of that was touched upon in viewtopic.php?t=20816&start=0

[J.R.]

Great post by SaorsaDaonnan summing up the pro's and con's of this event.

[wvcbxl]

Baseball America has been out in front on the coverage of this. They even broke down potential starting line-ups for each team.

 

And did a sloppy job on the Netherlands.

There are currently 25 Dutch nationals playing pro-ball abroad (and a 26th just signed with the Twins organization). Only nine are mentioned in BA's piece. Not to mention the scandalous omission of good old Ivanon Coffie :clown: