Untouchables.

[moorecg]

I know I'll get stoned for suggesting this...well, maybe not, cause I'm not actually suggesting anything, but instead raising a point.

 

In the past 4-5 years we've had several "can't miss" or "untouchable" minor leaguers. see e.g. (Patterson, Hill, Choi, Guzman, Sisco, Brownlie).

 

While that's great to have a farm system with valuable people, its arguable that none of these have performed at solid level on a consistent basis in the majors.

 

Where I'm going with this is this...

 

Why is Pie, or anyone else for that matter, untouchable? If we could get Mench, Dunn, or someone of a similar ilk that will actually help this team, isn't that an effective use of the farm system? Especially considering Dusty's refusal to play youngins, and further considering that only a relatively small percentage of these "can't miss" prospects actually become everyday players, much less all stars.

 

If we can get proven young talent, isn't it worth trading guys like this?

[Larry Horse]

Agreed. I cannot name a stud position player who was developed by and had a great career with the Cubs. I don't have the greatest of memories, so everyone feel free to pile on with names. I also remember Hendry saying he would not pursue Kent or Thome because the Cubs had their left side of the infield set with Hill and Choi.

[HoopsCubs]

Agreed. I cannot name a stud position player who was developed by and had a great career with the Cubs. I don't have the greatest of memories, so everyone feel free to pile on with names. I also remember Hendry saying he would not pursue Kent or Thome because the Cubs had their left side of the infield set with Hill and Choi.

 

I have no issue with Hendry for passing on Thome. That's just a dumb contract that Philly gave him - good for Thome, of course.

 

Hendry passed on Kent twice. He should have signed him before Houston did a few years back, and he should have signed him to a 2-year deal this offseason before LA did. Kent plays in a totally different league than Todd Walker.

[soapy]

I agree to an extent. I would be hard pressed to name any prospect as "untouchable" if the right deal came along. However, I wouldn't give up someone like Pie for someone that isn't going to be a huge difference maker for many years to come.

 

Also, I wouldn't use the manager's reluctance to play rookies that are deserving as a reason to trade said prospects. I'd instead fire the manager.

[Tim]

Agreed. I cannot name a stud position player who was developed by and had a great career with the Cubs. I don't have the greatest of memories, so everyone feel free to pile on with names. I also remember Hendry saying he would not pursue Kent or Thome because the Cubs had their left side of the infield set with Hill and Choi.

Pfft. That's easy.

 

Ernie Banks

Billy Williams

Ron Santo

 

Or did you mean within the past 25 or so years? Because that's tougher. :D

 

Mark Grace

 

 

 

On the second part of your post, I'm thrilled we didn't top philly's offer to Thome right now.

[fiver]

Agreed. I cannot name a stud position player who was developed by and had a great career with the Cubs. I don't have the greatest of memories, so everyone feel free to pile on with names. I also remember Hendry saying he would not pursue Kent or Thome because the Cubs had their left side of the infield set with Hill and Choi.

Pfft. That's easy.

 

Ernie Banks

Billy Williams

Ron Santo

 

Or did you mean within the past 25 or so years? Because that's tougher. :D

 

Mark Grace

 

 

 

On the second part of your post, I'm thrilled we didn't top philly's offer to Thome right now.

 

Indeed...that Lee guy that they are trying at 1B right now isn't so shabby..lol

[chicubs]

 

Indeed...that Lee guy that they are trying at 1B right now isn't so shabby..lol

 

Never heard of him. :P

[biittner77]

 

Indeed...that Lee guy that they are trying at 1B right now isn't so shabby..lol

 

Never heard of him. :P

 

I think his first name is Da Rake or D'Rake. He's OK.

[BigbadB]

I know I'll get stoned for suggesting this...well, maybe not, cause I'm not actually suggesting anything, but instead raising a point.

 

In the past 4-5 years we've had several "can't miss" or "untouchable" minor leaguers. see e.g. (Patterson, Hill, Choi, Guzman, Sisco, Brownlie).

 

While that's great to have a farm system with valuable people, its arguable that none of these have performed at solid level on a consistent basis in the majors.

 

Where I'm going with this is this...

 

Why is Pie, or anyone else for that matter, untouchable? If we could get Mench, Dunn, or someone of a similar ilk that will actually help this team, isn't that an effective use of the farm system? Especially considering Dusty's refusal to play youngins, and further considering that only a relatively small percentage of these "can't miss" prospects actually become everyday players, much less all stars.

 

If we can get proven young talent, isn't it worth trading guys like this?

 

You also need your farm system to provide cheap talent at a key position or two to allow you to afford to trade for guys like Dunn or Mench.

 

If Cedeno and Pie can cover SS and CF, you can sign Dunn to a big contract while holding on to other soon to be expensive, but productive parts like Zambrano and Prior.

 

Untouchable is a loose term for "it would take something real extraordinary to trade him".

 

If the Yankees offered A-Rod (and paid half his contract) for Pie, Mitre and Hill, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

Untouchable just means you won't trade him unless you can get a serious impact player in return.

[moorecg]

I know I'll get stoned for suggesting this...well, maybe not, cause I'm not actually suggesting anything, but instead raising a point.

 

In the past 4-5 years we've had several "can't miss" or "untouchable" minor leaguers. see e.g. (Patterson, Hill, Choi, Guzman, Sisco, Brownlie).

 

While that's great to have a farm system with valuable people, its arguable that none of these have performed at solid level on a consistent basis in the majors.

 

Where I'm going with this is this...

 

Why is Pie, or anyone else for that matter, untouchable? If we could get Mench, Dunn, or someone of a similar ilk that will actually help this team, isn't that an effective use of the farm system? Especially considering Dusty's refusal to play youngins, and further considering that only a relatively small percentage of these "can't miss" prospects actually become everyday players, much less all stars.

 

If we can get proven young talent, isn't it worth trading guys like this?

 

You also need your farm system to provide cheap talent at a key position or two to allow you to afford to trade for guys like Dunn or Mench.

 

If Cedeno and Pie can cover SS and CF, you can sign Dunn to a big contract while holding on to other soon to be expensive, but productive parts like Zambrano and Prior.

 

Untouchable is a loose term for "it would take something real extraordinary to trade him".

 

If the Yankees offered A-Rod (and paid half his contract) for Pie, Mitre and Hill, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

Untouchable just means you won't trade him unless you can get a serious impact player in return.

 

Ok...how about something like this...

 

Pie and Mitre for Mench? He's performed solidly at the major league level for several years and has a solid OBP and power.

 

At this point I'm thinking that I'd be open to something like that...just insert trade target (Dunn, Huff, et al...) I think we've really got to consider it if we get a proven young player in return.

[treebird]

Untouchable is a loose term for "it would take something real extraordinary to trade him".

 

Untouchable just means you won't trade him unless you can get a serious impact player in return.

 

Exactly exactly exactly.

[BigbadB]

I know I'll get stoned for suggesting this...well, maybe not, cause I'm not actually suggesting anything, but instead raising a point.

 

In the past 4-5 years we've had several "can't miss" or "untouchable" minor leaguers. see e.g. (Patterson, Hill, Choi, Guzman, Sisco, Brownlie).

 

While that's great to have a farm system with valuable people, its arguable that none of these have performed at solid level on a consistent basis in the majors.

 

Where I'm going with this is this...

 

Why is Pie, or anyone else for that matter, untouchable? If we could get Mench, Dunn, or someone of a similar ilk that will actually help this team, isn't that an effective use of the farm system? Especially considering Dusty's refusal to play youngins, and further considering that only a relatively small percentage of these "can't miss" prospects actually become everyday players, much less all stars.

 

If we can get proven young talent, isn't it worth trading guys like this?

 

You also need your farm system to provide cheap talent at a key position or two to allow you to afford to trade for guys like Dunn or Mench.

 

If Cedeno and Pie can cover SS and CF, you can sign Dunn to a big contract while holding on to other soon to be expensive, but productive parts like Zambrano and Prior.

 

Untouchable is a loose term for "it would take something real extraordinary to trade him".

 

If the Yankees offered A-Rod (and paid half his contract) for Pie, Mitre and Hill, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

Untouchable just means you won't trade him unless you can get a serious impact player in return.

 

Ok...how about something like this...

 

Pie and Mitre for Mench? He's performed solidly at the major league level for several years and has a solid OBP and power.

 

At this point I'm thinking that I'd be open to something like that...just insert trade target (Dunn, Huff, et al...) I think we've really got to consider it if we get a proven young player in return.

 

Personally, I wouldn't make that trade. Mench is a solid player, but not a guy I trade my best offensive prospect for. For Pie, I want a franchise type player in return. Dunn, Beltran, A-Rod, Abreu, B. Giles, etc....

 

Sure, Pie is not worth any of those guys by himself. But, at the same time, we don't really know what we are getting rid of. Boston is still kicking themselves for trading Jeff Bagwell for an old, inconsistent middle reliever. The White Sox had to be kicking themselves for trading Sammy Sosa for George Bell. The list goes on of great prospects that were shipped off for spare parts that turned out to be superstars. We don't know whether Pie could be the next superstar or the next flop, but I'm not overly excited about watching him blossom into a superstar for some other team unless his net return gave us not just one playoff appearance, but several.

 

The Florida Marlins could have traded their top prospect in 2003 to help their push to the playoffs, but instead, they promoted him and Miguel Cabrera is on everyone's wish list today.

 

I'm looking forward to the day Felix Pie is patrolling centerfield. Until that day comes, I don't want to see his name come up in trade rumors unless it's for a franchise type player.

 

Texas needs pitching, pitching and more pitching. To get Mench, you could offer Mitre and another arm or two and call it good. Now you have Mench and Pie. If Texas wants Pie, instead of Mench, I want Tex. I don't think Texas would want Pie though, since Rich Hill is the lefty of the two that can actually throw strikes. :wink: