Bears Week 18 Against Who Cares

[Tim]

I mean Andy Dalton types are realistically the best you can do if you're in the QB wilderness. Although he definitely overpaid.

 

That's not a firable offense. Can we stop with the single moves as firable offense takes? To be fair single moves shouldn't be savable either.

Does the Mike Glennon / trading up for Trubisky over Mahomes/Watson count as one more or two?

I don't care how many moves it counts as, it's pretty silly to the degree fans parse out individual moves instead of the big picture.

 

But fwiw if I magically became an NFL owner I'd definitely want my GM to feel secure they won't be fired for trying to find a QB and failing. The idea that GMs should get one swing at a QB and that basically seals their fate is one of the most utterly brain dead sports takes in existence.

I was mainly joking, but you're right that he shouldn't be judged on one move. But just at the qb position alone, he:

 

- Chose to let Cutler go and sign Glennon

- draft Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson

- Trade for Foles contract instead of developing Trubisky further

- Trade for Foles over signing Dalton

- Give up on Trubisky

- Signing Dalton to play over Foles just one year later

- Spend big capital to trade up for Fields, but then have a half assed plan to develop him

 

That's too say nothing of the fact that he's already had the chance to hire two head coaches and much more.

[NOLA]

This article was linked by a Saints writer on twitter, but had this bit on the Bears HC search:

• The Bears have been connected to both Harbaugh and Saints coach Sean Payton—but I don’t think they’d get into any sort of bidding war on either. And assuming Matt Nagy’s gone (GM Ryan Pace has a decent chance to survive), I’ve heard they won’t be focused solely on quarterback-developers like they were when they landed Nagy in 2018, with their focus likely on leader-of-men types. It’s also worth noting that owner George McCaskey has been very involved in the NFL’s diversity efforts, and the league has been bullish on the candidacy of Bills defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier. Frazier, a star corner on the vaunted 1985 Bears defense, has been raised to me repeatedly in regards to Buffalo’s plans. I’ve heard a few younger candidates that project as leaders, like Patriots LBs coach Jerod Mayo and Colts DC Matt Eberflus, will be in the mix, too. (Obviously, for these types, a plan for developing Justin Fields will be important.)

 

• There’s a lot of talk through the grapevine about Payton’s future. I think he’ll probably stay with the Saints, where he has a really good setup from a football standpoint and is making very good money. That said, tires will likely be kicked. My sense is he’ll say no on going home to Chicago. And I’ve heard networks are readying to make a run at him, and throw real money at him, to see whether he’d leave the sideline for television. Eventually, my bet is he’ll do that. I just don’t think it’ll happen yet. Also, for whatever it’s worth, if Payton were to leave, I think we’d see some shuffling in New Orleans, but not an overhaul—with GM Mickey Loomis potentially going into a president-type of role, Jeff Ireland replacing him and DC Dennis Allen becoming the head coach. The Saints, of course, want no part of losing Payton, but are pretty well positioned for whenever it does happen.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/01/07/nfl-head-coach-hiring-preview-week-18

[WrigleyField 22]

Does the Mike Glennon / trading up for Trubisky over Mahomes/Watson count as one more or two?

I don't care how many moves it counts as, it's pretty silly to the degree fans parse out individual moves instead of the big picture.

 

But fwiw if I magically became an NFL owner I'd definitely want my GM to feel secure they won't be fired for trying to find a QB and failing. The idea that GMs should get one swing at a QB and that basically seals their fate is one of the most utterly brain dead sports takes in existence.

I was mainly joking, but you're right that he shouldn't be judged on one move. But just at the qb position alone, he:

 

- Chose to let Cutler go and sign Glennon

- draft Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson

- Trade for Foles contract instead of developing Trubisky further

- Trade for Foles over signing Dalton

- Give up on Trubisky

- Signing Dalton to play over Foles just one year later

- Spend big capital to trade up for Fields, but then have a half assed plan to develop him

 

That's too say nothing of the fact that he's already had the chance to hire two head coaches and much more.

And with all that QB failing all his other moves start to look better considering the record. But I've definitely seen enough big picture failures that I'm just not convinced there is improvement is in store. And thats the only possible way to argue for him. I don't care if he hit it out of the park with the 2021 draft pick (way too early to say, but I've seen that argument from some supporters), people gotta figure out what about Pace is gonna lead to improvement from what he's done.

 

But I could be wrong too. If Fields is awesome he's gonna cover up a lot of mistakes anyways, whether it's Pace's or his successor.

[jersey cubs fan]

I really don't get what a Pace promotion looks like, the guy has strengths but they are not in figuring out the best people to hire and strategic planning. But with all the smoke about staying with the team, it seems like something is up. What is preventing them from keeping Pace in a consulting capacity? Teams hire former coaches and executives in a consulting capacity, like Brad Childress and the guy from Texas this year. If they are going with an internal promotion at GM, they might want to use Pace as a sounding board throughout the GM's first year. Pace is in his mid-40s and has some accolades under his belt, but if he's fired tomorrow he probably has to go down a few rungs in his next gig and work his way back up. He might be happy to lessen the workload, spend more time with the young family and keep his name in the ring for a new gig in a couple years.

 

Then they can hire Pederson as head coach and demote Nagy to QB coach and keep everybody employed.

[WrigleyField 22]

I really don't get what a Pace promotion looks like, the guy has strengths but they are not in figuring out the best people to hire and strategic planning. But with all the smoke about staying with the team, it seems like something is up. What is preventing them from keeping Pace in a consulting capacity? Teams hire former coaches and executives in a consulting capacity, like Brad Childress and the guy from Texas this year. If they are going with an internal promotion at GM, they might want to use Pace as a sounding board throughout the GM's first year. Pace is in his mid-40s and has some accolades under his belt, but if he's fired tomorrow he probably has to go down a few rungs in his next gig and work his way back up. He might be happy to lessen the workload, spend more time with the young family and keep his name in the ring for a new gig in a couple years.

I don't think Pace would go down a few rungs for long at least. He'd be a player personnel director pretty quickly I think. And if his contract is up it isn't exactly like he wouldn't wanna shop for that opportunity. I feel like something like that only happens for someone way more career advanced and possibly only for someone beloved, like Elway in Denver, who by all accounts is basically semi retired and advisory only.

[UMFan83]

I don't think anyone was holding out hope but there remained a slim chance Fields could be cleared before Sunday but Nagy just shot that down

 

[jersey cubs fan]

I really don't get what a Pace promotion looks like, the guy has strengths but they are not in figuring out the best people to hire and strategic planning. But with all the smoke about staying with the team, it seems like something is up. What is preventing them from keeping Pace in a consulting capacity? Teams hire former coaches and executives in a consulting capacity, like Brad Childress and the guy from Texas this year. If they are going with an internal promotion at GM, they might want to use Pace as a sounding board throughout the GM's first year. Pace is in his mid-40s and has some accolades under his belt, but if he's fired tomorrow he probably has to go down a few rungs in his next gig and work his way back up. He might be happy to lessen the workload, spend more time with the young family and keep his name in the ring for a new gig in a couple years.

I don't think Pace would go down a few rungs for long at least. He'd be a player personnel director pretty quickly I think. And if his contract is up

 

therein lies the rub.

 

But who is pimping Pace as their next GM within the next couple years? Looks at Jeff Ireland's career arc. He went from scout to Dolphins GM from 2008 to 2013. He was a consultant with Seattle the next year then went to work in New Orleans in 2015 and now, 7 years later, his name is back in discussion for GM jobs. Not all consultants are 60 year olds on the way out. These guys come and go and take different paths. Some go into media. But it usually takes a while to get back on the top of the food chain.

 

A consultant role keeps the guy in the loop, but demands much less time than being a personnel director somewhere. And nobody in the NFL is rushing to emulate what the Bears have done. Angelo was out of football at 60 following his Bears stint and Emery went back to scouting work. Pace probably still has a brighter future, but I don't see a fast track back for him.

[WrigleyField 22]

Sorry I don't necessarily see a GM role, but not down a few rungs either. Opportunity is obviously key. Ireland as an example could be his replacement here if he's dismissed and then theres a nice cushy job in his old org.

 

Obviously stars may not align that quickly. I could definitely see a senior consultant role for a year and then back into a director level roll shortly after. Most GMs don't get a second GM chance, but would be surprised if he's not at the director level for a long time.

[UMFan83]

 

Not great news (I think) for Bears fans that want Harbaugh...if he's that close to a deal it can't be with the Bears. Almost certainly with the Raiders. Also not great news for Michigan fans but that's a story for another thread.

 

Also if you really wanted Harbaugh, blame the Bears since he would be scooped up during the period where the Bears couldn't interview HCs because they were too afraid to break the tradition of never firing a coach mid-season.

[Derwood]

I have zero interest in Harbaugh, so if the Raiders scoop him up, then great, bullet dodged

[jersey cubs fan]

Also if you really wanted Harbaugh, blame the Bears since he would be scooped up during the period where the Bears couldn't interview HCs because they were too afraid to break the tradition of never firing a coach mid-season.

isn't that rule specifically about NFL assistants? It would have nothing to do with Harbaugh.

[WrigleyField 22]

Also if you really wanted Harbaugh, blame the Bears since he would be scooped up during the period where the Bears couldn't interview HCs because they were too afraid to break the tradition of never firing a coach mid-season.

isn't that rule specifically about NFL assistants? It would have nothing to do with Harbaugh.

Yea the tampering rule wouldn't have applied to Harbaugh.

 

At most it would be a optics thing though.

 

Maybe the Bears are gonna be too cheap for Harbaugh. We know Davis will shell out a 100M contract because he did once already. Are the Bears ready to compete at the top HC salaries or is thay why reports are trickling in again of first timers like Eberflus and Mayo?

[UMFan83]

Also if you really wanted Harbaugh, blame the Bears since he would be scooped up during the period where the Bears couldn't interview HCs because they were too afraid to break the tradition of never firing a coach mid-season.

isn't that rule specifically about NFL assistants? It would have nothing to do with Harbaugh.

 

quiet and let me be mad at the Bears lol

[WrigleyField 22]

Okay, yea Bears are cheap

[raw]

This article was linked by a Saints writer on twitter, but had this bit on the Bears HC search:

• The Bears have been connected to both Harbaugh and Saints coach Sean Payton—but I don’t think they’d get into any sort of bidding war on either. And assuming Matt Nagy’s gone (GM Ryan Pace has a decent chance to survive), I’ve heard they won’t be focused solely on quarterback-developers like they were when they landed Nagy in 2018, with their focus likely on leader-of-men types. It’s also worth noting that owner George McCaskey has been very involved in the NFL’s diversity efforts, and the league has been bullish on the candidacy of Bills defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier. Frazier, a star corner on the vaunted 1985 Bears defense, has been raised to me repeatedly in regards to Buffalo’s plans. I’ve heard a few younger candidates that project as leaders, like Patriots LBs coach Jerod Mayo and Colts DC Matt Eberflus, will be in the mix, too. (Obviously, for these types, a plan for developing Justin Fields will be important.)

 

• There’s a lot of talk through the grapevine about Payton’s future. I think he’ll probably stay with the Saints, where he has a really good setup from a football standpoint and is making very good money. That said, tires will likely be kicked. My sense is he’ll say no on going home to Chicago. And I’ve heard networks are readying to make a run at him, and throw real money at him, to see whether he’d leave the sideline for television. Eventually, my bet is he’ll do that. I just don’t think it’ll happen yet. Also, for whatever it’s worth, if Payton were to leave, I think we’d see some shuffling in New Orleans, but not an overhaul—with GM Mickey Loomis potentially going into a president-type of role, Jeff Ireland replacing him and DC Dennis Allen becoming the head coach. The Saints, of course, want no part of losing Payton, but are pretty well positioned for whenever it does happen.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/01/07/nfl-head-coach-hiring-preview-week-18

 

Eberflus is a name that keeps quietly coming up. Also, been whispers out there that the Bears are interested in Colts Asst. GM, Ed Dodds. I've been mostly focused on offensive coaches for the Bears, but a Dodds/Eberflus combo could be pretty sweet. The Colts have some interesting guys on their staff that combo could bring along with them.

 

But reading between the lines here, I'm not sure how I feel in general. I just want the organization to do it's due diligence. Don't go into a HC search thinking "need a strong leader". It's the same line of thinking that has made every other hire they've done a mess. "Lead of men" is akin to "QB developer" which led to Nagy; is akin to "experienced HC" which led to John Fox; is akin to "outside the box" which led to Trestman; is akin to "hot young coordinator" which led to Jauron, Lovie, and Ditka. Them going into the search looking for a certain type of coach, will almost certainly lead to them picking the wrong coach, because they have already shrank the candidate pool.

[UMFan83]

Okay, yea Bears are cheap

 

Sadly that doesn't surprise me. I hate this organization. Not solely because of this of course, but just another example to pile on top of everything else.

[WrigleyField 22]

This article was linked by a Saints writer on twitter, but had this bit on the Bears HC search:

• The Bears have been connected to both Harbaugh and Saints coach Sean Payton—but I don’t think they’d get into any sort of bidding war on either. And assuming Matt Nagy’s gone (GM Ryan Pace has a decent chance to survive), I’ve heard they won’t be focused solely on quarterback-developers like they were when they landed Nagy in 2018, with their focus likely on leader-of-men types. It’s also worth noting that owner George McCaskey has been very involved in the NFL’s diversity efforts, and the league has been bullish on the candidacy of Bills defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier. Frazier, a star corner on the vaunted 1985 Bears defense, has been raised to me repeatedly in regards to Buffalo’s plans. I’ve heard a few younger candidates that project as leaders, like Patriots LBs coach Jerod Mayo and Colts DC Matt Eberflus, will be in the mix, too. (Obviously, for these types, a plan for developing Justin Fields will be important.)

 

• There’s a lot of talk through the grapevine about Payton’s future. I think he’ll probably stay with the Saints, where he has a really good setup from a football standpoint and is making very good money. That said, tires will likely be kicked. My sense is he’ll say no on going home to Chicago. And I’ve heard networks are readying to make a run at him, and throw real money at him, to see whether he’d leave the sideline for television. Eventually, my bet is he’ll do that. I just don’t think it’ll happen yet. Also, for whatever it’s worth, if Payton were to leave, I think we’d see some shuffling in New Orleans, but not an overhaul—with GM Mickey Loomis potentially going into a president-type of role, Jeff Ireland replacing him and DC Dennis Allen becoming the head coach. The Saints, of course, want no part of losing Payton, but are pretty well positioned for whenever it does happen.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/01/07/nfl-head-coach-hiring-preview-week-18

 

Eberflus is a name that keeps quietly coming up. Also, been whispers out there that the Bears are interested in Colts Asst. GM, Ed Dodds. I've been mostly focused on offensive coaches for the Bears, but a Dodds/Eberflus combo could be pretty sweet. The Colts have some interesting guys on their staff that combo could bring along with them.

 

But reading between the lines here, I'm not sure how I feel in general. I just want the organization to do it's due diligence. Don't go into a HC search thinking "need a strong leader". It's the same line of thinking that has made every other hire they've done a mess. "Lead of men" is akin to "QB developer" which led to Nagy; is akin to "experienced HC" which led to John Fox; is akin to "outside the box" which led to Trestman; is akin to "hot young coordinator" which led to Jauron, Lovie, and Ditka. Them going into the search looking for a certain type of coach, will almost certainly lead to them picking the wrong coach, because they have already shrank the candidate pool.

Yea, I am warming to Eberflus, but I also agree that it doesn't feel like the thought process here is good. That said, even if the "Leader" aspect is being over-thought it at least isn't immediately cutting your pool in half like a QB focused coach search did. So it's something?

 

I also kind of explicitly don't want HC/GM from the same spot. Granted both of those guys have been around at different stops before Indy, so that's something. But I really want a variety of backgrounds and not just try to replicate one org. I don't know how close Polian/Dungy are to Indy still but those two are the supposed consultants and a HC/GM name are surfacing from Indy and its also where the presumed runner up to Pace ended up and I feel like, Ah horsefeathers it, theres no actual process is there?

[David]

 

i hate this team

[UMFan83]

 

i hate this team

 

Wait Ryan Pace spoke to the media?

[UK]

Nagy is in the don't give a horsefeathers mode.

[d_money]

 

i hate this team

 

Wait Ryan Pace spoke to the media?

Exactly. What a jagoff

[David]

 

i hate this team

 

Wait Ryan Pace spoke to the media?

 

Pretty sure it's the Bears state sponsored propaganda network and he probably appears there somewhat regularly, but that's just a guess

[Tryptamine]

It's actually remarkable how often the Bears get into the other team's side of the field and produce nothing.

[UMFan83]

It's actually remarkable how often the Bears get into the other team's side of the field and produce nothing.

 

 

Nagy certainly making a compelling case for keeping him

[Tryptamine]

When you absolutely dominate a half and don't even lead by a touchdown.