The 2018-2019 Cubs Offseason Rumors & Discussion Thread AKA The Rickettssss take a dump on EVERYTHING

[Cubswin11]

If the Mariners are tearing it down, why would they trade for an arb eligible headliner in Schwarber? Especially for Diaz, who would garner tons of interest and Seattle could define the shape of the return.

 

Because Cruz/Schwarber would be awesome

Cruz is a FA

[Cubswin11]

If the Mariners are tearing it down, why would they trade for an arb eligible headliner in Schwarber? Especially for Diaz, who would garner tons of interest and Seattle could define the shape of the return.

Dipoto always likes the half ass it between competing and rebuilding is my only rebuttal because yeah that makes sense.

[minnesotacubsfan]

If the Mariners are tearing it down, why would they trade for an arb eligible headliner in Schwarber? Especially for Diaz, who would garner tons of interest and Seattle could define the shape of the return.

 

Because Cruz/Schwarber would be awesome

Cruz is a FA

 

 

Im trying to help you sell here

[Post Count Padder]

Who says no? 1 of Schwarber/Happ, Q, Kintzler and a prospect for Kluber and maybe a prospect back.

 

Reasoning is the Indians are apparently strapped/not wanting to spend. They didn’t even offer Brantley the QO because they couldn’t fit that $ in if he accepted. Kluber is owed $1.5 million more the next two years than Q (and is ~3 years older), their position players outside of Lindor and Ramirez (especially outfielders) suck and they lose Miller and Allen and need some bullpen reinforcements. They are in a competitive window and this lets them fill their roster without spending a ton more. They lose the top end of a guy like Kluber but in the aggregate they make up for it in the 3 guys they get. This move clears a little money for us and the OF log jam for Bryce and gives us more upside in the rotation.

 

 

I really only like this idea if we get Bryce, if we do it and just get like Brantley or Pollock I don’t love it.

I'd do Happ, kintzler and alzolay for Kluber. Cleveland wouldn't though.

 

If it's Q and and someone like Lange or Abbot Id do it but again I don't think Cleveland would and idk if I'm willing to do all of that for him. Then again I wouldn't have traded Eloy for Q so what do I know

[davell]

Kluber is INSANELY good. The Indians, if they traded him, would receive an absolute HAUL.

 

His last 5 seasons? Over 200 innings each year. 31 fWAR. Seriously, THIRTY ONE. 32.6 bWAR. I mean....... horsefeathers lol.

 

The Indians can and would do much better than anything we've got to offer, that starts with Schwarber or Happ and has Quintana in it.

[Cubswin11]

Kluber is INSANELY good. The Indians, if they traded him, would receive an absolute HAUL.

 

His last 5 seasons? Over 200 innings each year. 31 fWAR. Seriously, THIRTY ONE. 32.6 bWAR. I mean....... horsefeathers lol.

 

The Indians can and would do much better than anything we've got to offer, that starts with Schwarber or Happ and has Quintana in it.

I don’t disagree they could do much better if they went more prospect centric, but if they’re looking for a trade that lets them stay as good/competitive with major league pieces for the next 2-4 years in their current window I think we’re near the top with that rough Q and Schwarber/Happ offer along with a minor league piece. Like the Braves could offer up some of their young pitchers who aren’t known and Carmago? That’s maybe more upside but also maybe doesn’t make them as good for the next ~2 years as those pitchers may need more time.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The Indians also have similar concerns as the White Sox do as to how much the bottom can fall out of attendance(they won 90+ games and were 21st in attendance, outdrawn by the likes of Minnesota and San Diego), that might inform how they would want a trade return to look like.

[davell]

1) I don't think they'll actually deal him. We operate like when we hear WE need to shave money, it's nonsense, but when others do, it's just true. Again, just don't think they'll do it.

2) I don't think percentages show that top end prospects failure rates are THAT high at all. And I do think they'd get 2 top 50 types, maybe one of them is even top 10-15.

3) Doesn't mean much, but the MLBTR guy today laughed at this offer, so he agrees with me anyway.

4) A guy brought up Newcomb, Inciarte, and one of the Braves elite pitching prospects. I think that beats the Cubs offer by a decent amount personally. Other teams just have more ammo than we do for a move like this.

[Bull]

Is it possible the Indians overvalue Schwarber due to his perceved superhuman presence in the 2016 WS?

 

Where are they on The Cole/Rangers spectrum of front office R&D?

Edited November 15, 2018 by Bull

[minnesotacubsfan]

Is it possible the Indians overvalue Schwarber due to his perceved superhuman presence in the 2016 WS?

 

Where are they on The Cole/Rangers spectrum of front office R&D?

 

according to moneyball they use advanced stats

 

(the movie)

[Clem Fandango]

Kluber is INSANELY good. The Indians, if they traded him, would receive an absolute HAUL.

 

His last 5 seasons? Over 200 innings each year. 31 fWAR. Seriously, THIRTY ONE. 32.6 bWAR. I mean....... horsefeathers lol.

 

The Indians can and would do much better than anything we've got to offer, that starts with Schwarber or Happ and has Quintana in it.

 

I mentioned it elsewhere, but going by ERA+, since 2004 the best 5 year runs are Kershaw (somewhere in the absurd 170+ range), Johan Santana (154) then Kluber (152 I believe). Couldn't think of anyone else that has performed better over a consecutive stretch since 2004. Originally I said 2000, but Pedro and RJ were bonkers at the turn of the century.

 

Point is, Kluber is one of the 5 or so best pitchers we've seen this century so far.

[davell]

I’d take Newcomb/Inciarte/Anderson easily over the Cubs’ offer there, but how many teams have that lying around? Are the Braves in a rush to add a 33 YO starter? I think the Cubs are way more likely to offer the proposed package than the Braves are.

 

There's not MANY teams, with that type of currency, but I could see the Yankees, Braves, Padres, Phillies, Astros, Dodgers, maybe even the Cardinals jump in. Some of those teams aren't ready for a move like that obviously. But, I'm just listing teams who conceivably could be involved. I'll disagree on how serious the Braves would be too, it'd make them that much more attractive to a Bryce or Manny too. Obviously, neither of us know how serious the Braves would be and I can see either standpoint. In my mind, they've got more than enough prospect depth to make a serious move, here and there.

 

My main point though, is I just can't see them trading him for anything less than an eye-popping return. He's making under 8 mill in 2019. If money is an issue, you just dump some others off the roster. Just can't see them dealing him unless they're blown away. And that offer from the Cubs, isn't in that realm.

[davell]

Honestly, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't look at Q and Schwarber as special value. Schwarber probably has the value of a top 50ish prospect, in my mind. And if I'm off, I think I'm on the high end. Q? I'd be surprised if we could get a top 100 for him. Top 100-150 lead guy, is what he'd bring back. Add that together and it's not nearly enough in my mind, as to what it'd take to actually make the Indians deal him. What other teams have is actually kind of immaterial too, because again, if Cleveland isn't blown away, why move him? In my opinion, he's just say too good to trade for less than a top 20-25 guy, a top 50 type, and some other interesting lower pieces. The lead piece is the main piece. And a guy like Schwarber, Happ, or Q....... Just not nearly enough, in my opinion.

[davell]

Honestly, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't look at Q and Schwarber as special value. Schwarber probably has the value of a top 50ish prospect, in my mind. And if I'm off, I think I'm on the high end. Q? I'd be surprised if we could get a top 100 for him. Top 100-150 lead guy, is what he'd bring back. Add that together and it's not nearly enough in my mind, as to what it'd take to actually make the Indians deal him. What other teams have is actually kind of immaterial too, because again, if Cleveland isn't blown away, why move him? In my opinion, he's just say too good to trade for less than a top 20-25 guy, a top 50 type, and some other interesting lower pieces. The lead piece is the main piece. And a guy like Schwarber, Happ, or Q....... Just not nearly enough, in my opinion.

 

Not to extend this too much further because I can agree to disagree but I have to add that this is basically the Yelich trade. It’s stunk for the Marlins and I say this as someone maybe too optimistic about Lewis Brinson in the long run. Schwarber’s what...2-3 years removed from being a top 20 guy?

 

You're right, it IS basically the equivalent of the Yelich deal. Which certainly looks bad on the Marlins end right now obviously. So, if anything, I'd think the Indians could want more, not less....... Again, I don't think they NEED to trade him. Yelich was forcing himself out of Miami, maybe that even hurt their leverage? At any rate, my biggest point is I just don't see the Indians trading him at all.

 

As for Schwarber, yeah he was a top 20 guy. His value is less now, because he's now not catching at all, he's shown to have at least a bit less of a bit tool than was expected out of him, he's not shown himself to hit lefties well, even if he needs more chances, and mainly..... He had 6 years of control, he's down to 3 now. And corner OF don't typically carry large trade value. I'm not even sure he'd pull a top 50 guy on his own. But, we're trying to.gauge value on a guy that admittedly..... Teams may very well have a wide array of opinions on too. Making it even easier for us to just agree to disagree on this one.

[Bear Cub]

Don't trade Schwarbs, I just got a home jersey of the Big Man!

[Backtobanks]

Padres checking in on Syndergaard...Reds checking in on Stroman...Astros chasing Realmuto...Phillies and White Sox getting their fifteen minutes in the Harper/Machado talks....Meanwhile I STILL have to pretend the Cubs are poor, have little to trade, and are going to get beat on their media rights deals.

 

 

 

Theo is waiting to strike when Caleb Joseph becomes DFA.

[Sammy Sofa]

Cubs waiting for some guy with sick day/night spin rate splits who's coming back from surgery and looking to try pitching from his other hand before they pounce.

[Backtobanks]

Schwarber’s a weird trade chip. The flaws he has now are the same ones he had as a prospect (for instance no one liked him for his defense then, he struck out plenty, and his OPS plummeted 200 points and K rate skyrocketed against LHs in the minors) without the shield of being a MiL prospect anymore.

 

Depsite those flaws he still has a ton going for him and I can do the same (run down flaws) on literally any prospect. He’s still a former 4th overall pick turned top 20 prospect (slashing .334/.432/.619 in the minors), turned impact ML bat in his first pro season(!), turned unlikely WS hero with a 1.000+ OPS in postseason play. He’s slugged 56 HRs the past two seasons in just 996 PAs, 400+ PAs fewer than guys like Rizzo (57 HRs) and George Springer (56). He has even made dramatic improvements defensively and on the basepaths for the sake of improving *after* losing a season to a knee injury. His makeup and work ethic are as beyond reproach as you can get in a pro athlete.

 

I think he’ll have plenty of people in other FO’s that see the Cubs as the Twins to Schwarber’s David Ortiz. Toronto’s an org I see as a great match given their two elite RHH prospects. I think we’d be selling low on him this offseason, real risky saying that I know, but again would not be surprised if someone saw him as a buy low candidate worth someone worthwhile ala Musgrove last offseason

 

I also just polished a bottle of red so maybe I’m just feeling niiiice

 

Schwarber is what he is, a perfect DH/platoon LF. He does have value because of his power, work ethic, youth, and contract. I still like the deal I mentioned a few weeks back of Schwarber for two of Allard/Fried/Soroka.

[imb]

Schwarber’s a weird trade chip. The flaws he has now are the same ones he had as a prospect (for instance no one liked him for his defense then, he struck out plenty, and his OPS plummeted 200 points and K rate skyrocketed against LHs in the minors) without the shield of being a MiL prospect anymore.

 

Depsite those flaws he still has a ton going for him and I can do the same (run down flaws) on literally any prospect. He’s still a former 4th overall pick turned top 20 prospect (slashing .334/.432/.619 in the minors), turned impact ML bat in his first pro season(!), turned unlikely WS hero with a 1.000+ OPS in postseason play. He’s slugged 56 HRs the past two seasons in just 996 PAs, 400+ PAs fewer than guys like Rizzo (57 HRs) and George Springer (56). He has even made dramatic improvements defensively and on the basepaths for the sake of improving *after* losing a season to a knee injury. His makeup and work ethic are as beyond reproach as you can get in a pro athlete.

 

I think he’ll have plenty of people in other FO’s that see the Cubs as the Twins to Schwarber’s David Ortiz. Toronto’s an org I see as a great match given their two elite RHH prospects. I think we’d be selling low on him this offseason, real risky saying that I know, but again would not be surprised if someone saw him as a buy low candidate worth someone worthwhile ala Musgrove last offseason

M

I also just polished a bottle of red so maybe I’m just feeling niiiice

 

Schwarber is what he is, a perfect DH/platoon LF. He does have value because of his power, work ethic, youth, and contract. I still like the deal I mentioned a few weeks back of Schwarber for two of Allard/Fried/Soroka.

 

Lol Jesus Christ

[minnesotacubsfan]

Schwarber’s a weird trade chip. The flaws he has now are the same ones he had as a prospect (for instance no one liked him for his defense then, he struck out plenty, and his OPS plummeted 200 points and K rate skyrocketed against LHs in the minors) without the shield of being a MiL prospect anymore.

 

Depsite those flaws he still has a ton going for him and I can do the same (run down flaws) on literally any prospect. He’s still a former 4th overall pick turned top 20 prospect (slashing .334/.432/.619 in the minors), turned impact ML bat in his first pro season(!), turned unlikely WS hero with a 1.000+ OPS in postseason play. He’s slugged 56 HRs the past two seasons in just 996 PAs, 400+ PAs fewer than guys like Rizzo (57 HRs) and George Springer (56). He has even made dramatic improvements defensively and on the basepaths for the sake of improving *after* losing a season to a knee injury. His makeup and work ethic are as beyond reproach as you can get in a pro athlete.

 

I think he’ll have plenty of people in other FO’s that see the Cubs as the Twins to Schwarber’s David Ortiz. Toronto’s an org I see as a great match given their two elite RHH prospects. I think we’d be selling low on him this offseason, real risky saying that I know, but again would not be surprised if someone saw him as a buy low candidate worth someone worthwhile ala Musgrove last offseason

M

I also just polished a bottle of red so maybe I’m just feeling niiiice

 

Schwarber is what he is, a perfect DH/platoon LF. He does have value because of his power, work ethic, youth, and contract. I still like the deal I mentioned a few weeks back of Schwarber for two of Allard/Fried/Soroka.

 

Lol Jesus Christ

 

 

Your lord and savior! The higher the hair the closer to god! Isn’t that what they say down in hickville, Hayseed?

[Backtobanks]

Schwarber’s a weird trade chip. The flaws he has now are the same ones he had as a prospect (for instance no one liked him for his defense then, he struck out plenty, and his OPS plummeted 200 points and K rate skyrocketed against LHs in the minors) without the shield of being a MiL prospect anymore.

 

Depsite those flaws he still has a ton going for him and I can do the same (run down flaws) on literally any prospect. He’s still a former 4th overall pick turned top 20 prospect (slashing .334/.432/.619 in the minors), turned impact ML bat in his first pro season(!), turned unlikely WS hero with a 1.000+ OPS in postseason play. He’s slugged 56 HRs the past two seasons in just 996 PAs, 400+ PAs fewer than guys like Rizzo (57 HRs) and George Springer (56). He has even made dramatic improvements defensively and on the basepaths for the sake of improving *after* losing a season to a knee injury. His makeup and work ethic are as beyond reproach as you can get in a pro athlete.

 

I think he’ll have plenty of people in other FO’s that see the Cubs as the Twins to Schwarber’s David Ortiz. Toronto’s an org I see as a great match given their two elite RHH prospects. I think we’d be selling low on him this offseason, real risky saying that I know, but again would not be surprised if someone saw him as a buy low candidate worth someone worthwhile ala Musgrove last offseason

M

I also just polished a bottle of red so maybe I’m just feeling niiiice

 

Schwarber is what he is, a perfect DH/platoon LF. He does have value because of his power, work ethic, youth, and contract. I still like the deal I mentioned a few weeks back of Schwarber for two of Allard/Fried/Soroka.

 

Lol Jesus Christ

 

We might have to throw in Russell if we want Christ too.

[Cubswin11]

Now that the Mariners sell off is official hopefully we can go get Pazos and dump at least one of Kintzler/Duensing/Chatwood’s contract there

[Post Count Padder]

[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

Former Yankees first round pick

[Sammy Sofa]

I feel like this is going to be me as this stupid offseason for jerks keeps going:

 

[minnesotacubsfan]

I feel like this is going to be me as this stupid offseason for jerks keeps going:

 

 

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