Minor League Discussion & Boxes, 7-16-18

[davell]

Lange is doing what was expected of him, Marquez is moving way up, when others have faltered.

 

 

That's just the ebb and flow of a normal farm system. De La Cruz and Albertos have faded, but Alzolay hasn't. He's shutdown, but no surgery. He's just as big a prospect as was to start the year.

 

And, Marquez hasn't been the only one to step up. Underwood and Clifton have reestablished themselves as prospects, and Steele's quick return from TJS has been a nice surprise. The biggest mover is probably James Norwood, where did he come from?!? I don't remember seeing him on any prospect list with his 5+ ERA in AA. Now he's throwing 97mph heaters in the Majors with Maddon pimping at every turn.

 

Normal ebb and flow? Underwood and Clifton? Good lord. Our system has been a disappointment this year. Period. Duh, there's guys going to move up and down lists, thanks for that. In our case, the high upside types that we needed to have good years, have NOT for the most part. Those guys moving backwards hurts a bunch. Underwood is moving up why? What's he done? Clifton? He's had a decent season, but he's not done enough yet to where his season affects our system on any real level yet either. Hell, put him in the back of our top 10, if you want. Still means nothing, because the back of our top 10 sucks.

 

Using MLB, because it's the 1st one that shows up.....

 

1 Alzolay- Value down, due to injury.

2. Ademan- Value down due to shitty season.

3. De La Cruz- Value way down, due to performance, then roids.

4. Albertos- Value down bigly, due to having no clue of how to throw a ball over the plate anymore.

5. Lange- Holding steady, doing what's expected, not breaking out though.

6. Little- Value down, extremely inconsistent and can't hold velo.

7. Hatch- Value down, doesn't seem to have control, nor have anything close to a put away pitch.

8. Caratini- Value steady? I guess? He's been good in AAA and has held his own mostly, in the majors.

9. Wilson- Can't hit, nor stay healthy. Value down.

10. Velazquez- Value down. South Bend was a disaster, going better in Eugene, but it's sad a .674 OPS gets that said.....

 

Amaya has moved way up obviously. Bote has taken a legit move forward. As has Marquez. Anyone else moving up lists is doing it with marginal improvement or basically doing what's expected, while others fall on their asses.

 

Our system has had a bad year so far. The guys moving downward were guys you could squint and see some of them in or near the top 100 by now. That's not been replaced by nearly enough positives.

 

A lot of us thought our system could be back towards the 15-20 range at the end of this sesson. Instead, we're likely still in the 25-30 range.

[Donzo]

I don't agree with this at all. Any season-ending arm injury to a pitching arm is damning enough, with or without surgery, but then his performance when on the field was decidedly meh. It was only 8 starts, but he was striking out 2 guys less per 9 than last year in AA, while still throwing loads of flyballs. You have to be really, really optimistic to think his prospect star hasn't dimmed at least a little.

 

And this may be more semantics than anything, but how have Underwood and Clifton reestablished themselves as prospects? Neither have been great this year, and neither have glowing reports coming out. If by "prospect", do you mean "maybe could be a 26th man in a double-header" type of thing?

 

 

What does a season ending arm injury have to do with Alzolay? The Cubs posted at least a couple statements about Alzaloy's performance in Iowa, you should check them out. For him being in Iowa, I was jacked he was there and his good stuff was dominating.

 

Not giving guys like Underwood and Clifton credit for improved seasons is unreasonable. Heck, Underwood made his MLB debut and was respectable against the Dodgers. And, you should check yourself about not having "glowing reports". The Cubs brass issued atleast one "glowing report" about Underwood performance to start the year.

[Donzo]

Normal ebb and flow? Underwood and Clifton? Good lord. Our system has been a disappointment this year. Period. Duh, there's guys going to move up and down lists, thanks for that. In our case, the high upside types that we needed to have good years, have NOT for the most part. Those guys moving backwards hurts a bunch. Underwood is moving up why? What's he done? Clifton? He's had a decent season, but he's not done enough yet to where his season affects our system on any real level yet either. Hell, put him in the back of our top 10, if you want. Still means nothing, because the back of our top 10 sucks.

 

Using MLB, because it's the 1st one that shows up.....

 

1 Alzolay- Value down, due to injury.

2. Ademan- Value down due to horsefeathers season.

3. De La Cruz- Value way down, due to performance, then roids.

4. Albertos- Value down bigly, due to having no clue of how to throw a ball over the plate anymore.

5. Lange- Holding steady, doing what's expected, not breaking out though.

6. Little- Value down, extremely inconsistent and can't hold velo.

7. Hatch- Value down, doesn't seem to have control, nor have anything close to a put away pitch.

8. Caratini- Value steady? I guess? He's been good in AAA and has held his own mostly, in the majors.

9. Wilson- Can't hit, nor stay healthy. Value down.

10. Velazquez- Value down. South Bend was a disaster, going better in Eugene, but it's sad a .674 OPS gets that said.....

 

Amaya has moved way up obviously. Bote has taken a legit move forward. As has Marquez. Anyone else moving up lists is doing it with marginal improvement or basically doing what's expected, while others fall on their asses.

 

Our system has had a bad year so far. The guys moving downward were guys you could squint and see some of them in or near the top 100 by now. That's not been replaced by nearly enough positives.

 

A lot of us thought our system could be back towards the 15-20 range at the end of this sesson. Instead, we're likely still in the 25-30 range.

 

 

Dang, there's a bunch missed stuff and hypercritical spin there...

 

The value down for Alzaloy, Ademan, Little and Hatch?- How silly.

 

So, Norwood is "doing it with marginal improvement or basically doing what's expected"- really?

 

Caratini- "Value steady?"... That's actually funny- :lol:

 

 

I'll just leave it at that... No reason to really get into this.

[davell]

No, you're absolutely right. Literally ZERO reason to go further.

[Cubswin11]

 

What does a season ending arm injury have to do with Alzolay? The Cubs posted at least a couple statements about Alzaloy's performance in Iowa, you should check them out. For him being in Iowa, I was jacked he was there and his good stuff was dominating.

 

Not giving guys like Underwood and Clifton credit for improved seasons is unreasonable. Heck, Underwood made his MLB debut and was respectable against the Dodgers. And, you should check yourself about not having "glowing reports". The Cubs brass issued atleast one "glowing report" about Underwood performance to start the year.

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Cubswin11

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I don't agree with this at all. Any season-ending arm injury to a pitching arm is damning enough, with or without surgery, but then his performance when on the field was decidedly meh. It was only 8 starts, but he was striking out 2 guys less per 9 than last year in AA, while still throwing loads of flyballs. You have to be really, really optimistic to think his prospect star hasn't dimmed at least a little.

 

And this may be more semantics than anything, but how have Underwood and Clifton reestablished themselves as prospects? Neither have been great this year, and neither have glowing reports coming out. If by "prospect", do you mean "maybe could be a 26th man in a double-header" type of thing?

 

 

What does a season ending arm injury have to do with Alzolay? The Cubs posted at least a couple statements about Alzaloy's performance in Iowa, you should check them out. For him being in Iowa, I was jacked he was there and his good stuff was dominating.

 

Not giving guys like Underwood and Clifton credit for improved seasons is unreasonable. Heck, Underwood made his MLB debut and was respectable against the Dodgers. And, you should check yourself about not having "glowing reports". The Cubs brass issued atleast one "glowing report" about Underwood performance to start the year.

 

Oh the cubs had good things to say about players in their farm system? Imagine that.

[Agony and Ivy]

I don't agree with this at all. Any season-ending arm injury to a pitching arm is damning enough, with or without surgery, but then his performance when on the field was decidedly meh. It was only 8 starts, but he was striking out 2 guys less per 9 than last year in AA, while still throwing loads of flyballs. You have to be really, really optimistic to think his prospect star hasn't dimmed at least a little.

 

And this may be more semantics than anything, but how have Underwood and Clifton reestablished themselves as prospects? Neither have been great this year, and neither have glowing reports coming out. If by "prospect", do you mean "maybe could be a 26th man in a double-header" type of thing?

 

 

What does a season ending arm injury have to do with Alzolay? The Cubs posted at least a couple statements about Alzaloy's performance in Iowa, you should check them out. For him being in Iowa, I was jacked he was there and his good stuff was dominating.

 

Not giving guys like Underwood and Clifton credit for improved seasons is unreasonable. Heck, Underwood made his MLB debut and was respectable against the Dodgers. And, you should check yourself about not having "glowing reports". The Cubs brass issued atleast one "glowing report" about Underwood performance to start the year.

 

Uh what? He was already oldish when he broke out as a prospect and just suffered a season ending arm injury, but the absolute biggest reason this tarnishes his prospectness is he's lost a year of development. I know that when I want the best, no spin prospect coverage I go to the organization that they play for because they have no interest in inflating their status in the industry.

[Hrubes20]

I don't agree with this at all. Any season-ending arm injury to a pitching arm is damning enough, with or without surgery, but then his performance when on the field was decidedly meh. It was only 8 starts, but he was striking out 2 guys less per 9 than last year in AA, while still throwing loads of flyballs. You have to be really, really optimistic to think his prospect star hasn't dimmed at least a little.

 

And this may be more semantics than anything, but how have Underwood and Clifton reestablished themselves as prospects? Neither have been great this year, and neither have glowing reports coming out. If by "prospect", do you mean "maybe could be a 26th man in a double-header" type of thing?

 

 

What does a season ending arm injury have to do with Alzolay? The Cubs posted at least a couple statements about Alzaloy's performance in Iowa, you should check them out. For him being in Iowa, I was jacked he was there and his good stuff was dominating.

 

Not giving guys like Underwood and Clifton credit for improved seasons is unreasonable. Heck, Underwood made his MLB debut and was respectable against the Dodgers. And, you should check yourself about not having "glowing reports". The Cubs brass issued atleast one "glowing report" about Underwood performance to start the year.

 

My mistake. A season ending tear to a muscle directly responsible for the movement of the arm. Not much better, and it definitely doesn't help his value.

 

I think others have already responded accurately to the rest of this post.

[Donzo]

Oh the cubs had good things to say about players in their farm system? Imagine that.

 

No, nothing to imagine there. Someone said there were no glowing reports about Underwood and I simply corrected him by pointing a glowing report... Sorry that bothered you so much.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Oh the cubs had good things to say about players in their farm system? Imagine that.

 

No, nothing to imagine there. Someone said there were no glowing reports about Underwood and I simply corrected him by pointing a glowing report... Sorry that bothered you so much.

 

No bother, it’s just useless for the purposes of this conversation.

[Donzo]

He was already oldish when he broke out as a prospect and just suffered a season ending arm injury, but the absolute biggest reason this tarnishes his prospectness is he's lost a year of development.

 

 

Wow, it's just one sentence, but you fit in three wrong statements- that's tough to do.

 

1- He wasn't "oldish" when he broke out. He was 19 or just turned 20 when he broke-out in Short season A ball.

2- No arm injury.

3- He didn't lose a year of development. He got eight starts in in AAA and very well could pitch in the fall and winter.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

He was already oldish when he broke out as a prospect and just suffered a season ending arm injury, but the absolute biggest reason this tarnishes his prospectness is he's lost a year of development.

 

 

Wow, it's just one sentence, but you fit in three wrong statements- that's tough to do.

 

1- He wasn't "oldish" when he broke out. He was 19 or just turned 20 when he broke-out in Short season A ball.

2- No arm injury.

3- He didn't lose a year of development. He got eight starts in in AAA and very well could pitch in the fall and winter.

 

I don’t think most consider his 53 innings in 2015 his breakout year, especially given what he followed it up with the next year.

[Donzo]

 

My mistake. A season ending tear to a muscle directly responsible for the movement of the arm. Not much better, and it definitely doesn't help his value.

 

Well... No... A lat injury is much better than an arm injury.

 

But whatever. You want to make stuff up to complain about, have fun... I won't waste anymore time on it.

[davell]

When you find yourself disagreeing with EVERYONE, about EVERYTHING, it might be time to relook at your stances.

[Donzo]

I don’t think most consider his 53 innings in 2015 his breakout year, especially given what he followed it up with the next year.

 

ok, yah...

[CubsWin]

He hit 99 tonight as well. I think he's our best (at least most intriguing) pitching prospect at the moment. Gotta love the command and BB rates for a guy with his stuff. Wonder how aggressive they will be in pushing him?

 

Oh my.

If that is true that is massive. And he's throwing a high % of strikes too. Fast track him.

It's true. He's been sitting mid-90s and hitting 97-99 all season.

[CubsWin]

He was already oldish when he broke out as a prospect and just suffered a season ending arm injury, but the absolute biggest reason this tarnishes his prospectness is he's lost a year of development.

 

 

Wow, it's just one sentence, but you fit in three wrong statements- that's tough to do.

 

1- He wasn't "oldish" when he broke out. He was 19 or just turned 20 when he broke-out in Short season A ball.

2- No arm injury.

3- He didn't lose a year of development. He got eight starts in in AAA and very well could pitch in the fall and winter.

To be honest, there was some excitement around Alzolay when he was an 18-year-old in the DSL after putting up this line:

 

67 IP, 49 H, 10 BB, 61 K, .201 BAA, 0.88 WHIP and a 1.07 ERA.

 

That's why I've been intrigued by 18-year-old LHP Luis Rodriguez this year who's mid-season line reads:

 

26.1 IP, 12 H, 4 BB, 28 K, .133 BAA, 0.61 WHIP and a 1.03 ERA.

 

I have no idea what Rodriguez's stuff is like, but then again, we didn't know anything outside of Alzolay's stat line back then either.

 

Alzolay then had an off year in the AZL (as a lot of DSL success stories do) with a 8.51 ERA there, but returned to impress in the NWL the year after that. The first reports of his stuff that year were average (91-93 FB, decent off speed, no change up). The anticipation of his performance in full season the following season was followed by disappointment, however. The league hit .260 against him with a 4.34 ERA. His K-rate dropped significantly. He was/is undersized and many thought he'd wind up in the pen (which he still might). 2017 was another story. Preceding that season, reports out of Mesa were that he had taken a step forward in velocity and command both with the FB and curve. He had also begun working on a change up that flashed but was still below average. He truly broke out as a 22-year-old, dominating High-A and finishing acceptably in AA. He was consistent 94-96 with a plus curve and was hitting his spots with both. The biggest change was in his confidence and approach. He notoriously, and to the dismay of many batters, would get the ball back from the catcher and deliver the next pitch within 5-10 seconds. He eliminated thinking, trusted his catcher and didn't allow the opposing batter to get comfortable. All things he wasn't doing in Eugene when he was 20, not 19. He had turned 20 three and a half months prior to the start of their season.

 

He most definitely has lost time on his developmental track as, without the lat injury, there was high expectation he would see the majors this season. Given the injuries and ineffectiveness in the Cubs rotation this year, that would've come in handy. He may still pitch in the Arizona Fall League, but that is yet to be seen and certainly wouldn't replicate a full season of experience developing his change up which was, according to interviews given by Cubs brass, the final piece in his development before being brought up with confidence of major league success.