8/6: The Defending Champs (Big Game Jon) vs DB's Nationals (Fedde), 1:20 CT, CSN-C, TBS

[Aaron_Kennelly]

I think Joe's bullpen management in the WS was just fine until he panicked and used Chapman in game 6 when there was no reason to. That led to everything after.

 

Really you could make a good argument for it being a lot better than just fine until then. Going to Chapman in the 7th of game 5 wasn't like a great unforeseen idea or anything, but it was pretty ballsy given he would've been destroyed if it hadn't worked.

 

But yeah he horsefeathers up game 6 and game 7 was a total crap show. Thank God we won and none of us really have to care

 

Yeah. Game 6 was the big horsefeathers up. Had Joe not done that, Game 7 would have aligned perfectly for Chapman to repeat Game 5.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I think Joe's bullpen management in the WS was just fine until he panicked and used Chapman in game 6 when there was no reason to. That led to everything after.

 

Really you could make a good argument for it being a lot better than just fine until then. Going to Chapman in the 7th of game 5 wasn't like a great unforeseen idea or anything, but it was pretty ballsy given he would've been destroyed if it hadn't worked.

 

But yeah he horsefeathers up game 6 and game 7 was a total crap show. Thank God we won and none of us really have to care

 

Yeah, Maddon did well in Game 5 but monumentally fucked up Game 6 and that really put Chapman and the team in a horrible situation in Game 7. Game 6 is what upsets most of us.

[17 Seconds]

i think most here disagree (and i understand the reasoning) but i still think taking out hendricks that early was awful

[Aaron_Kennelly]

i think most here disagree (and i understand the reasoning) but i still think taking out hendricks that early was awful

 

I thought so at the time. And it probably was. But Lester did a great job. That's his defining moment as a Cub. What a beast. I'll always love him for that.

[17 Seconds]

i think most here disagree (and i understand the reasoning) but i still think taking out hendricks that early was awful

 

I thought so at the time. And it probably was. But Lester did a great job. That's his defining moment as a Cub. What a beast. I'll always love him for that.

 

yeah but it was kind of a lou/zambrano/marmol thing. even if you get the best possible outcome with lester, you're still taking away at-bats from hendricks to give to a potentially gassed chapman. hendricks should have been given as much rope as possible to limit the amount you had to get out of chapman, but he went the complete opposite direction. i still kind of feel bad for kyle. he was having a potentially iconic start, and now he's barely mentioned when that game is talked about.

[FlyTheW]

I think Joe's bullpen management in the WS was just fine until he panicked and used Chapman in game 6 when there was no reason to. That led to everything after.

 

Really you could make a good argument for it being a lot better than just fine until then. Going to Chapman in the 7th of game 5 wasn't like a great unforeseen idea or anything, but it was pretty ballsy given he would've been destroyed if it hadn't worked.

 

But yeah he horsefeathers up game 6 and game 7 was a total crap show. Thank God we won and none of us really have to care

I don't think using Chapman in Game 6 was bad, it was not having anyone ready to go when the Cubs put the game out of reach in the 9th that was the problem. Overall, I haven't had many problems with Joe and his bullpen management. When pitchers don't do their jobs, it's always going to reflect poorly on the manager.

 

The Cubs are going to win about 390 games in his first 3 seasons as Cubs manager, not sure I'd trade him for anyone in baseball. Game 7 opened the door for Cubs fans to kill Joe for everything that goes wrong now though.

[soccer10k]

I think Joe's bullpen management in the WS was just fine until he panicked and used Chapman in game 6 when there was no reason to. That led to everything after.

 

Really you could make a good argument for it being a lot better than just fine until then. Going to Chapman in the 7th of game 5 wasn't like a great unforeseen idea or anything, but it was pretty ballsy given he would've been destroyed if it hadn't worked.

 

But yeah he horsefeathers up game 6 and game 7 was a total crap show. Thank God we won and none of us really have to care

I don't think using Chapman in Game 6 was bad, it was not having anyone ready to go when the Cubs put the game out of reach in the 9th that was the problem. Overall, I haven't had many problems with Joe and his bullpen management. When pitchers don't do their jobs, it's always going to reflect poorly on the manager.

 

The Cubs are going to win about 390 games in his first 3 seasons as Cubs manager, not sure I'd trade him for anyone in baseball. Game 7 opened the door for Cubs fans to kill Joe for everything that goes wrong now though.

 

Yeah, it was the fact that it took him a few minutes to get somebody warming when Rizzo homered, and really, even before that. Two on and Lindor up in a five-run game? I get it. You don't want to give Cleveland hope. Since he's already in, you don't want to burn him for 1 batter and 4-5-6 is coming up? Fine by me. He got through 1 1/3 in only 15 pitches. But someone should have been warming for the ninth regardless. It's a five-run game (at least), 7-8-9 is coming up, the pen is rested (off day the day before) and you've only used Monty. Send out whoever and if the Indians get a runner or two on, you can play matchups with the heart of the order. Even if you don't feel 100% comfortable with a five-run lead, you have to think with Dex-Schwarber-KB coming up, that there's a decent chance you add to that lead.

 

And maybe Chapman is just gassed in Game 7 regardless. We'll never know. It was only five pitches (plus the few warmups). But those few could have been the difference between a sharper Chapman and what we got. Thankfully it worked out for us and we didn't have to see Chapman on the mound for the last out.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

I mean, they're in first place.

 

they're what, an 85 win team right now? Hard to get too ... hard about that. Five runs up on the terrible St Louis Cardinals in RD. They're OK and that lukewarm statement is the best anyone should realistically bestow on them. Kind of hoped for more given that we returned everyone from a 103-win world series championship team.

 

As soccer10k just said, the schedule is incredibly easy the rest of the year. They are going to win more than 85 games. They are also a much better team than their record indicates. They played like absolute horsefeathers for half of the season. They've had to deal with some injury problems. Guys flat-out played like horsefeathers. The rotation was a mess. They've cleaned up in a lot of areas. They've played much better baseball since the break. And they have a very talented roster still.

 

It's certainly been a frustrating season. And they haven't lived up to expectations. But to act as if they are a bad team because Maddon has been drinking wine before games the last week is silly. They're still a good team.

 

I kinda hate to be That Guy, but the whole "the schedule gets easier" thing doesn't really make that much more confident in them.

 

Yes, I get that it's baseball and that anything can happen if you get to the playoffs...but is it THAT crazy to not be that optimistic about a team that has struggled to put together sustained runs of success all season being able to do that in multiple series against playoff-level teams? I mean, it would be one thing if they were facing other teams that backed in thanks to a hilariously bad division, but...

 

I get it; there's still time left and maybe some more things will click; it wouldn't be surprising at all if it does. But that it's gone this far being such an up and down mess, I can't help but think it's still a pretty big "if" in terms of that happening this season instead of "when." Like, I understand your basic breakdown of what's gone wrong above, but for some reason it doesn't feel like they've actually shaken a lot of that off.