NBA 15-16 season

[Sammy Sofa]

That's quite the motley collection of players you have there; Tim Duncan is probably the best comparison, though the huge difference there is Duncan didn't topple off a cliff due to injuries and diminished talent. Robinson stayed on the same team, but he played "only" 14 seasons and then retired after the first season his value dropped to around replacement level; Malone did the same. McGrady bounced around and was pretty useless his last few years. Payton hung on 2-3 seasons too long. Garnett's been pretty worthless for about 4 seasons. Paul Pierce had a couple of OK at best seasons post-Boston, but proved pretty definitively this season that he's likely done. Shaq was a mostly useless freakshow for years bouncing around the league outside of that fluke season in Phoenix. Carter's been a journeyman dude for most of his career.

 

Not really too many good comparisons; Bryant was in denial about not retiring after annihilating his Achilles in 2013. He's been terrible since then.

[UMFan83]

The point was the Kobe could be a productive role player. Pretty much all of those guys were productive role players at some point.

 

-Robinson averaged around 38 minutes a game and took 16 shots a game until 96, then for the last years of his career dropped down to 28-30 minutes a game and took 8-10 shots a game.

-Tmac maybe a bad comparison because injuries destroyed him and while he tried to be a role player, he wasn't very good

-I'll give you Malone too, he was pretty much an alpha dog all the way until his last season in LA where he was part of a semi-disastrous Lakers team (or at least as disastrous as you can get for a team that finished 3 games away from a title)

-Paul Pierce has found a good niche as a role player, I'm surprised you take exception to that one as he is pretty much *the* best example of a Kobe like transition, going from alpha dog playing 20-25 minutes a game, playing 3rd or 4th fiddle in an offence but still shooting ~44% from the field and 37% from 3 until this year

-Garnett has been worthless for awhile but before that he evolved from the man in Minnesota and 1st year in Boston to a 3rd-4th option and good defender for a few years

-Carter has been a journeyman but again an alpha dog who found a role player type role later in his career

 

I will concede that maybe I am guilty of watching too many Kobe highlight videos from this year on Youtube when you only see his flashes of brilliance, he probably has been terrible since the achillies. But those flashes of brilliance make me think that playing 20 minutes a game defended by a teams 3rd best defender (or possibly bench guys), he could show those flashes more frequently.

[Sammy Sofa]

The talent simply isn't there; he's been absolutely terrible this season outside of a handful of games. That unavoidable fact aside, again, it comes back to thinking that if a player could "just" become a completely different player after 20 years in basically the same role and on the same team, then sure, he could become a valuable role player. None of those players did that. This isn't being David Robinson and just cutting your minutes; he would have to become a completely different player, if he were actually even capable of playing usefully consistently. Pointing to guys like Garnett and Pierce and Carter, who changed teams and systems and roles much, much earlier in their careers (sometimes multiple times), just doesn't work.

[UMFan83]

The talent simply isn't there; he's been absolutely terrible this season outside of a handful of games. That unavoidable fact aside, again, it comes back to thinking that if a player could "just" become a completely different player after 20 years in basically the same role and on the same team, then sure, he could become a valuable role player. None of those players did that. This isn't being David Robinson and just cutting your minutes; he would have to become a completely different player, if he were actually even capable of playing usefully consistently. Pointing to guys like Garnett and Pierce and Carter, who changed teams and systems and roles much, much earlier in their careers (sometimes multiple times), just doesn't work.

 

Pierce spent about 14 years playing for the same team and same role. Yes the systems changed and the team dynamic with different players, but the same could easily be said for Kobe who went from a team that was 1 year removed from Magic Johnson and was centered around Shaq, to Phil's triangle offense, to solo Kobe years with multiple coaches, to more triangle with Phil and Pau Gasol to D'Antoni's crazy system, to whatever they are doing now. Pierce was an alpha his entire career until he accepted a lesser role, switched teams for the first time in his career at age 36, which is 1 year younger than Kobe is now, and become a 3rd or 4th option.

 

Anyways we've whittled down my list of 10 names to 1 that I'm clinging to, so you win. I still think its possible though.

[Sammy Sofa]

Come on, man; Kobe is Kobe. He's been talked about as the same no-passing, taking all of the shots, ball-hogging player his entire career, so let's not pretend he went through any kind of time being a different type of player regardless of who he played for or with. Paul Pierce and Kobe Bryant aren't very similar players, so just thinking the the latter could adjust like the former doesn't make much sense. Plus, again, I'm not making up how bad he's been post-Achilles. It's actually kind of baffling how you've completely missed how much he's been joked about/bemoaned over the last three seasons. He's basically useless as a basketball player; everyone else you listed made major changes to their game or minutes or even who they played before when they could still actually contribute.

[UMFan83]

Yeah again I havent really watched the Lakers much due to their irrelevance, all I've seen of Kobe is occasional flashes of brilliance in youtube videos where he is still able to beat his man or do a reverse layup or hit some 3s, and then looking at some of his box scores when I see he's still playing over 30 minutes a game and taking 20+ shots. So using that evidence, I pieced together he can still occasionally look good, and perhaps not making him log so many minutes and not putting him in a role where he is the 1st 2nd and 3rd option on offense would make him productive as a player in short spurts and contribute to a contender.

 

I think it's solid logic but everytime you stress how bad he's been makes me question that to some degree.

 

And going way back to the original argument, I stated in the beginning that Kobe would never leave the lakers and/or accept a greatly reduced role because he is who he is. So I agree he's not going to suddenly become a different player after all this time. The rest of the argument was whether he'd actually be effective as a role player on a different team if he actually was on board. And in that case I put together examples of former stars, some stars in their era, some HOFers, so low post guys, some alpha dog guards, who successfully did that to different degrees.

[Sammy Sofa]

I swear I'm not trying to trick you: Kobe Bryant has been absolutely terrible at basketball for three seasons now. Literally the only reason he's been able to have "flashes of brilliance" is because the Lakers are a complete dumpster fire and they basically were letting Kobe run the show in a frantic race to the bottom.

 

Imagine how incredulous you'd be if someone tried to tell you they thought Rose maybe had a decent season based on highlight clips.

[Banedon]

The reason that Kobe game happened last night is because Kobe still thinks of himself as a star. Even if he wasn't a shell of his former self, I don't see him ever taking a "role player" type role to prolong his career. I think he views retiring now as still somewhat "going out strong", as delusional as that might be.

[SpongeWorthy]

Kobe doesn't care about winning titles where he isn't the man anyway

[Sammy Sofa]

Kobe doesn't care about winning titles where he isn't the man anyway

 

The idea of Kobe finally getting another ring as some schmuck off of the bench is pretty damn funny. Would he even know what to do?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Kobe doesn't care about winning titles where he isn't the man anyway

 

The idea of Kobe finally getting another ring as some schmuck off of the bench is pretty damn funny. Would he even know what to do?

 

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Charlie-Kelly-Blocks-Kid-in-Basketball-as-a-Ref.gif

[Cubswin11]

I'm a big Kobe/Laker fan and agree I don't think Kobe would work as a role/bench player. The thing with a lot of those other guys you mentioned were that they had 1 discernible skill, Pierce/Allen/Vince were good-great 3 pt shooters so they could turn into 3/4/5 options as corner 3 guys and the big guys could still rebound/take up space. Kobe's skill was his alpha dogness, which he isn't good at consistently anymore, so other than giving him a 2nd unit to come off the bench and chuck with idk how you fit him in and that role probably wouldn't be very successful. He actually is/was a great passer but he's not gonna go out and be like Rubio/Rondo just facilitating and not shoot.

[SpongeWorthy]

Thibs gonna wreck horsefeathers in Minnesota

[Liam Neeson]

Thibs gonna wreck [expletive] in Minnesota

 

http://i.imgur.com/dBvGh4i.png

[Banedon]

Thinking about being a Wolves fan now.

 

notreallybut...

[UMFan83]

What a terrible playoffs so far. 13 out of 16 games have been won by at least 9 points or more and 9 of the 16 by 17 points or more.

 

A combo of the Bulls not being in it, the inevitability that the Warriors will win it (unless Spurs can beat them but they don't play until WCF), and all the blowouts has made me barely watch any of the playoffs.

[Derwood]

I have zero desire to watch any of it.

[UMFan83]

Oh man this is great

 

[bbvideo=560,315]

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This would have been the Bulls if they had made it

[Banedon]

Curry sprained his knee and won't play the 2nd half of game 4.

[soccer10k]

They shouldn't have let him play this game. The earliest I would have brought him back was Game 5, and I'd only do that if it was 2-2. If it's 3-1, there's no need to run the risk. Golden State doesn't need Curry to win this series and they should have taken it easy with him.

[UMFan83]

Didn't he slip on a wet spot on the floor?

[Sammy Sofa]

Didn't he slip on a wet spot on the floor?

 

Yup; complete fluke.

[philosophizer75]

Man, talk about the dynamic of the playoffs suddenly shifting if curry is hurt bad.

[Banedon]

Looks like a grade 1 sprain of the right knee. Could miss around 2 weeks.

[soccer10k]

Luke Walton has agreed to be the next Lakers coach.