Cubs Sign Zobrist - 4/$56M

[Guest]

Theo termed this basically trading Starlin for Warren and Zobrist (he didn't mention the $18M difference, but even that is a relative pittance over 4 years for what they did here). Said they couldn't pass that up.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

these are, um, some hot takes

 

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=144160

Meh? Delicious.

[Guest]

Expanding upon that thought...

 

The Cubs could have five (5!) five win players in the field in 2016 if they sign Heyward. He, Bryant and Rizzo are all projected there. Zobrist could make it pretty easily with a healthy knee. Schwarber could also reach that plateau. Heck, as good a defender as he is, Russell could reach that level, too.

 

That's pretty much insane.

 

5 is probably Lester's 70th percentile projection.

I wasn't even counting pitchers.

 

In order or probability:

 

Bryant

Rizzo

Heyward

Zobrist

Schwarber

Russell

Soler

 

That's right. I'm upping it to seven five win players! Without counting pitchers. Of course, it won't happen. The bottom two would take a heck of a lot of growth in their games. Schwarber will have to be average or better on defense (or play catcher and be okay). Zobrist will have to be healthy. Bryant, Rizzo and Heyward would all have to play as projected or better.

 

But it's crazy that we'd have seven players capable of it everywhere but catcher (unless that's Schwarber).

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I wasn't even counting pitchers.

 

In order or probability:

 

Bryant

Rizzo

Heyward

Zobrist

Schwarber

Russell

Soler

 

That's right. I'm upping it to seven five win players! Without counting pitchers. Of course, it won't happen. The bottom two would take a heck of a lot of growth in their games. Schwarber will have to be average or better on defense (or play catcher and be okay). Zobrist will have to be healthy. Bryant, Rizzo and Heyward would all have to play as projected or better.

 

But it's crazy that we'd have seven players capable of it everywhere but catcher (unless that's Schwarber).

 

We're talking about it in other threads too, but I'm just starting to look at the projections for next year and this team is just nuts. Theo Epstein's last two years have been the Arrieta god-mode of GMing.

[Guest]

I wasn't even counting pitchers.

 

In order or probability:

 

Bryant

Rizzo

Heyward

Zobrist

Schwarber

Russell

Soler

 

That's right. I'm upping it to seven five win players! Without counting pitchers. Of course, it won't happen. The bottom two would take a heck of a lot of growth in their games. Schwarber will have to be average or better on defense (or play catcher and be okay). Zobrist will have to be healthy. Bryant, Rizzo and Heyward would all have to play as projected or better.

 

But it's crazy that we'd have seven players capable of it everywhere but catcher (unless that's Schwarber).

 

We're talking about it in other threads too, but I'm just starting to look at the projections for next year and this team is just nuts. Theo Epstein's last two years have been the Arrieta god-mode of GMing.

 

I love that you're finally seeing this for what it is.

[Guest]

I was so confused by all of this when it was trickling out this afternoon. Just seemed strange.

 

What they did when they realized that the demand for pitching was out of whack and manage to parlay Castro into a damn good swing man (possible even diamond in the rough starter - while the Diamondbacks got absolutely fleeced on Shelby Miller) and Zobrist is pretty outstanding. These guys are smart as hell and just know how to do arbitrage.

[Guest]

I wasn't even counting pitchers.

 

In order or probability:

 

Bryant

Rizzo

Heyward

Zobrist

Schwarber

Russell

Soler

 

That's right. I'm upping it to seven five win players! Without counting pitchers. Of course, it won't happen. The bottom two would take a heck of a lot of growth in their games. Schwarber will have to be average or better on defense (or play catcher and be okay). Zobrist will have to be healthy. Bryant, Rizzo and Heyward would all have to play as projected or better.

 

But it's crazy that we'd have seven players capable of it everywhere but catcher (unless that's Schwarber).

 

We're talking about it in other threads too, but I'm just starting to look at the projections for next year and this team is just nuts. Theo Epstein's last two years have been the Arrieta god-mode of GMing.

All of those guys would be controlled until at least 2020 with only Zobrist on the definite downside of his career by that time.

[Cubswin11]

Theo Epstein's last two years have been the Arrieta god-mode of GMing.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I love that you're finally seeing this for what it is.

 

If he can keep it up, he'll deserve all the praise he's gotten. We'll see.

 

Here's two examples for why I think there's such a big demarcation to be seen. Almora with the No. 6 pick vs. Schwarber with the No. 4, and what we got for Garza vs. what we got for Samardzija. He hasn't always been this good with the Cubs, but lately he has been.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

All of those guys would be controlled until at least 2020 with only Zobrist on the definite downside of his career by that time.

 

 

1990s Indians? 1990s Indians? 1990s Indians? cool cool cool

 

It's still the pitching that can bring it all down. Kyle Hendricks is like the only pitcher in the organization between 21 and 28 worth a damn. (I'm probably exaggerating, but sheesh).

[Guest]

I love that you're finally seeing this for what it is.

 

If he can keep it up, he'll deserve all the praise he's gotten. We'll see.

 

Here's two examples for why I think there's such a big demarcation to be seen. Almora with the No. 6 pick vs. Schwarber with the No. 4, and what we got for Garza vs. what we got for Samardzija. He hasn't always been this good with the Cubs, but lately he has been.

 

Give early Theo some credit for what wound up being an absolute fleece job in hindsight in Rizzo/Cashner. Rondon was a pretty awesome Rule 5 pickup on a smaller scale too.

[Guest]

I love that you're finally seeing this for what it is.

 

If he can keep it up, he'll deserve all the praise he's gotten. We'll see.

 

Here's two examples for why I think there's such a big demarcation to be seen. Almora with the No. 6 pick vs. Schwarber with the No. 4, and what we got for Garza vs. what we got for Samardzija. He hasn't always been this good with the Cubs, but lately he has been.

If you're going to use hindsight to judge the return on Garza, then use similar hindsight to judge the return on Dempster.

[Thrilho]

I love that you're finally seeing this for what it is.

 

If he can keep it up, he'll deserve all the praise he's gotten. We'll see.

 

Here's two examples for why I think there's such a big demarcation to be seen. Almora with the No. 6 pick vs. Schwarber with the No. 4, and what we got for Garza vs. what we got for Samardzija. He hasn't always been this good with the Cubs, but lately he has been.

 

Give early Theo some credit for what wound up being an absolute fleece job in hindsight in Rizzo/Cashner. Rondon was a pretty awesome Rule 5 pickup on a smaller scale too.

 

He got the most recent Cy Young winner for a half season of Scott Feldman in July 2013. Which Theo era does that count in?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I love that you're finally seeing this for what it is.

 

If he can keep it up, he'll deserve all the praise he's gotten. We'll see.

 

Here's two examples for why I think there's such a big demarcation to be seen. Almora with the No. 6 pick vs. Schwarber with the No. 4, and what we got for Garza vs. what we got for Samardzija. He hasn't always been this good with the Cubs, but lately he has been.

If you're going to use hindsight to judge the return on Garza, then use similar hindsight to judge the return on Dempster.

 

They botched the Garza deal even without hindsight. Or at least gambled and lost. The package we finally got for him was a fraction of what we were talking about getting the year before.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He got the most recent Cy Young winner for a half season of Scott Feldman in July 2013. Which Theo era does that count in?

 

I don't wanna put the line of demarcation back that far because the subsequent offseason was a huge turd. Right about the Russell trade and Schwarber pick is when he stopped mixing good and bad and just went all good forever.

[Guest]

I love that you're finally seeing this for what it is.

 

If he can keep it up, he'll deserve all the praise he's gotten. We'll see.

 

Here's two examples for why I think there's such a big demarcation to be seen. Almora with the No. 6 pick vs. Schwarber with the No. 4, and what we got for Garza vs. what we got for Samardzija. He hasn't always been this good with the Cubs, but lately he has been.

If you're going to use hindsight to judge the return on Garza, then use similar hindsight to judge the return on Dempster.

 

They botched the Garza deal even without hindsight. Or at least gambled and lost. The package we finally got for him was a fraction of what we were talking about getting the year before.

answer the question, please. In fact, of that list of players I posted earlier (plus pitchers), Bryant, Rizzo, Arrieta and Soler were all acquired prior to 2014. Pretending that they didn't do much to lay the foundation before that time is disingenuous at best and ignores the three best players on the team.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I love that you're finally seeing this for what it is.

 

If he can keep it up, he'll deserve all the praise he's gotten. We'll see.

 

Here's two examples for why I think there's such a big demarcation to be seen. Almora with the No. 6 pick vs. Schwarber with the No. 4, and what we got for Garza vs. what we got for Samardzija. He hasn't always been this good with the Cubs, but lately he has been.

If you're going to use hindsight to judge the return on Garza, then use similar hindsight to judge the return on Dempster.

 

They botched the Garza deal even without hindsight. Or at least gambled and lost. The package we finally got for him was a fraction of what we were talking about getting the year before.

answer the question, please. In fact, of that list of players I posted earlier (plus pitchers), Bryant, Rizzo, Arrieta and Soler were all acquired prior to 2014. Pretending that they didn't do much to lay the foundation before that time is disingenuous at best and ignores the three best players on the team.

 

1) You literally didn't ask a question. What would you like me to answer?

2) I didn't say "they never made a good move before that time."

 

Arrieta and Rizzo were amazing. Bryant was a gimme putt at best, and there were lots of reports that they liked Appel more. Soler isn't actually good yet, so it's a bit premature to include him on that list.

 

After acquiring Arrieta, they managed to make it through an entire offseason where their best move was 1/$6m for Jason Hammel. The reason I made the Arrieta god-mode comparison is because they've just been non-stop awesome sense roughly the Schwarber pick/Russell trade (which, even if you liked the Garza deal, it doesn't compare to getting Addison Russell, without hindsight). Arrieta had good starts pre-god-mode. What made it god mode was that it just never stopped.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Thrilho]

He got the most recent Cy Young winner for a half season of Scott Feldman in July 2013. Which Theo era does that count in?

 

I don't wanna put the line of demarcation back that far because the subsequent offseason was a huge turd. Right about the Russell trade and Schwarber pick is when he stopped mixing good and bad and just went all good forever.

 

It seemed like a fair size of the baseball world would have taken Jon Gray ahead of Bryant, so we'll put the line right at the draft then. Now that we have that settled, I'm going to stop giving a [expletive] and lovvvvvve your statement about Theo going good mode on the rest of these chumps. Back to counting the WAR of our paper giant!!!

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Look at this offseason:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/offseason-in-review-chicago-cubs.html

 

And tell me it's completely unreasonable to feel like we're in a different era now.

[Guest]

Look at this offseason:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/offseason-in-review-chicago-cubs.html

 

And tell me it's completely unreasonable to feel like we're in a different era now.

We're definitely in a different era. At that time, they were trying to build talent in the system while losing. They have now pivoted to actually attempting the dual fronts we were promised at the start.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Look at this offseason:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/offseason-in-review-chicago-cubs.html

 

And tell me it's completely unreasonable to feel like we're in a different era now.

We're definitely in a different era. At that time, they were trying to build talent in the system while losing. They have now pivoted to actually attempting the dual fronts we were promised at the start.

 

I like this era a lot better. That first era was stupid and annoying. He should run our baseball team like Barney Stinson puts together a mix tape.

[Guest]

Look at this offseason:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/offseason-in-review-chicago-cubs.html

 

And tell me it's completely unreasonable to feel like we're in a different era now.

We're definitely in a different era. At that time, they were trying to build talent in the system while losing. They have now pivoted to actually attempting the dual fronts we were promised at the start.

 

I like this era a lot better. That first era was stupid and annoying. He should run our baseball team like Barney Stinson puts together a mix tape.

 

Now we've got the Theo from the 30 for 30 short who did everything in his power to add ARod that you said you wished we had signed up for.

[Guest]

Look at this offseason:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/offseason-in-review-chicago-cubs.html

 

And tell me it's completely unreasonable to feel like we're in a different era now.

We're definitely in a different era. At that time, they were trying to build talent in the system while losing. They have now pivoted to actually attempting the dual fronts we were promised at the start.

 

I like this era a lot better. That first era was stupid and annoying. He should run our baseball team like Barney Stinson puts together a mix tape.

 

Now we've got the Theo from the 30 for 30 short who did everything in his power to add ARod that you said you wished we had signed up for.

I'll agree to that once we sign Heyward.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Now we've got the Theo from the 30 for 30 short who did everything in his power to add ARod that you said you wished we had signed up for.

 

Trying to put together a complex series of moves that ends up with stealing Heyward from the Cardinals feels *exactly* like Boston Theo. And just like with Boston Theo and A-Rod, it might not quite come together, but then the next offseason he tries something similar. Over and over, and sometimes it does work. (Until he decides he wants to back off for a couple of down seasons to regroup and management doesn't let him, but maybe by then we'll have our WS and he can retire and we'll let all this sick young executive talent we're amassing take over).

[Guest]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-the-cubs--plan-to-slow-play-ben-zobrist-s-free-agency-worked-to-perfection-052203117.html