Umm, is this the fucking Nomar thread?

[Sammy Sofa]

The Nomar trade was never bad, the Cubs gave up little value and got a pretty good player. Obviously the Hendry overreactions are bad. If this trade happened in 2015 with everything we know about baseball stats, the reaction would look completely different.

 

Wait, how different do you think baseball stats are now vs. 11 years ago?

The smarter baseball fans are in tune with sabermetrics at places like Northside Baseball. Nomar was a pretty bad player in 2004 before he got traded to Chicago (-0.1 WAR lol), I guarantee you the reaction would be completely different had it happened now compared to 11 years ago.

 

BP and BR were already around and well established at that point; it's not like it wasn't obvious he was coming back from an injury. He had also shown, just the year before, that when he wasn't injured he was one of the most valuable players in the game.

[Guest]

The Nomar trade was never bad, the Cubs gave up little value and got a pretty good player. Obviously the Hendry overreactions are bad. If this trade happened in 2015 with everything we know about baseball stats, the reaction would look completely different.

 

Wait, how different do you think baseball stats are now vs. 11 years ago?

The smarter baseball fans are in tune with sabermetrics at places like Northside Baseball. Nomar was a pretty bad player in 2004 before he got traded to Chicago (-0.1 WAR lol), I guarantee you the reaction would be completely different had it happened now compared to 11 years ago.

 

He was hitting .321/.367/.500 in 169 PA before the trade. He was never an elite defender, but his -33 UZR/150 wasn't going to last(and of course didn't).

[Guest]

The Nomar trade was never bad, the Cubs gave up little value and got a pretty good player. Obviously the Hendry overreactions are bad. If this trade happened in 2015 with everything we know about baseball stats, the reaction would look completely different.

 

he was at .4 WAR in an injury riddled 38 games and coming off a 5.8 win season in 2003 (not to mention several other great seasons past) and this was when steroids were still a thing and we had no worries about 31 year olds.

 

and he was replacing AGon-y's sub replacement ass.

[ARCubsFan]

The Nomar trade was never bad, the Cubs gave up little value and got a pretty good player. Obviously the Hendry overreactions are bad. If this trade happened in 2015 with everything we know about baseball stats, the reaction would look completely different.

 

he was at .4 WAR in an injury riddled 38 games and coming off a 5.8 win season in 2003 (not to mention several other great seasons past) and this was when steroids were still a thing and we had no worries about 31 year olds.

 

and he was replacing AGon-y's sub replacement ass.

Oh don't get me wrong the Nomar trade was a good trade for the Cubs and I was excited at the time. But there's a reason Theo made the trade and won the World Series that year.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

The Nomar trade was never bad, the Cubs gave up little value and got a pretty good player. Obviously the Hendry overreactions are bad. If this trade happened in 2015 with everything we know about baseball stats, the reaction would look completely different.

 

he was at .4 WAR in an injury riddled 38 games and coming off a 5.8 win season in 2003 (not to mention several other great seasons past) and this was when steroids were still a thing and we had no worries about 31 year olds.

 

and he was replacing AGon-y's sub replacement ass.

Oh don't get me wrong the Nomar trade was a good trade for the Cubs and I was excited at the time. But there's a reason Theo made the trade and won the World Series that year.

 

Yeah, and that is because the rest of his team was really [expletive] good.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Ramirez and Lofton for Bobby Hill was easily the highlight of Hendry's career.

[Fro]

The Nomar trade was never bad, the Cubs gave up little value and got a pretty good player. Obviously the Hendry overreactions are bad. If this trade happened in 2015 with everything we know about baseball stats, the reaction would look completely different.

 

Wait, how different do you think baseball stats are now vs. 11 years ago?

The smarter baseball fans are in tune with sabermetrics at places like Northside Baseball. Nomar was a pretty bad player in 2004 before he got traded to Chicago (-0.1 WAR lol), I guarantee you the reaction would be completely different had it happened now compared to 11 years ago.

 

BP and BR were already around and well established at that point; it's not like it wasn't obvious he was coming back from an injury. He had also shown, just the year before, that when he wasn't injured he was one of the most valuable players in the game.

 

I mainly remember people talking about OBP/OPS on here. Folks weren't talking much about defensive metrics or park adjusted stats, etc. A lot of that stuff existed but not on free Internet sites at the time.

[SouthSideRyan]

The Nomar trade was never bad, the Cubs gave up little value and got a pretty good player. Obviously the Hendry overreactions are bad. If this trade happened in 2015 with everything we know about baseball stats, the reaction would look completely different.

 

Wait, how different do you think baseball stats are now vs. 11 years ago?

The smarter baseball fans are in tune with sabermetrics at places like Northside Baseball. Nomar was a pretty bad player in 2004 before he got traded to Chicago (-0.1 WAR lol), I guarantee you the reaction would be completely different had it happened now compared to 11 years ago.

 

BP and BR were already around and well established at that point; it's not like it wasn't obvious he was coming back from an injury. He had also shown, just the year before, that when he wasn't injured he was one of the most valuable players in the game.

 

I mainly remember people talking about OBP/OPS on here. Folks weren't talking much about defensive metrics or park adjusted stats, etc. A lot of that stuff existed but not on free Internet sites at the time.

 

I'm pretty sure OPS+ was the stat du jour, and that's park and league adjusted.

[Guest]

There was a lot of hope for Hendry at that time. He even seemed to have the respect of a lot of the other GM's at that time. But he sure made a mess of things to the point he'll never land a GM job again. It was probably the donuts.

[jersey cubs fan]

There was a lot of hope for Hendry at that time. He even seemed to have the respect of a lot of the other GM's at that time. But he sure made a mess of things to the point he'll never land a GM job again. It was probably the donuts.

 

All hope was lost for Hendry the day he hired Baker.

[Guest]

There was a lot of hope for Hendry at that time. He even seemed to have the respect of a lot of the other GM's at that time. But he sure made a mess of things to the point he'll never land a GM job again. It was probably the donuts.

 

All hope was lost for Hendry the day he hired Baker.

 

Agreed.

[Cubbie Swagger]

There was a lot of hope for Hendry at that time. He even seemed to have the respect of a lot of the other GM's at that time. But he sure made a mess of things to the point he'll never land a GM job again. It was probably the donuts.

 

All hope was lost for Hendry the day he hired Baker.

 

Agreed.

Really?

 

Obviously it didn't work out well, but at the time, I was happy about it. I thought, "Hey, a manager that I've heard of before! What a treat!" I had no idea how fucked in the head he was.

 

I was also in 8th grade.

[jersey cubs fan]

There was a lot of hope for Hendry at that time. He even seemed to have the respect of a lot of the other GM's at that time. But he sure made a mess of things to the point he'll never land a GM job again. It was probably the donuts.

 

All hope was lost for Hendry the day he hired Baker.

 

Agreed.

Really?

 

Obviously it didn't work out well, but at the time, I was happy about it. I thought, "Hey, a manager that I've heard of before! What a treat!" I had no idea how [expletive] in the head he was.

 

I was also in 8th grade.

A lot of people liked the celebrity manager aspect of it, including Hendry. But that team, centered entirely around young arms, needed somebody completely different.

[Banedon]

I stupidly loved the Baker hire. I wish I could blame being in 8th grade, but I was not.

[mul21]

I went to a Giants game at AT&T in the summer of 2003 and distinctly remember having a conversation with a Giants fan about Dusty. I pretty much said he's been fine so far and I liked the move and was pretty much told, yeah, just wait, you'll hate him. I didn't want to believe it, but holy [expletive] was that lady right.

[Sammy Sofa]

I went to a Giants game at AT&T in the summer of 2003 and distinctly remember having a conversation with a Giants fan about Dusty. I pretty much said he's been fine so far and I liked the move and was pretty much told, yeah, just wait, you'll hate him. I didn't want to believe it, but holy [expletive] was that lady right.

 

Sure, but she and probably almost any Giants fan that said something similar at the time likely felt that way for meatball reasons as opposed to recognizing how much he sucked with pitchers and young players.

[Guest]

his veteran fetishes were well documented and i think his awful batting orders (and i'm the last guy to bitch about batting order - you almost had to go out of your way to come up with worse ones than he did) were common knowledge at the time, i think

[SouthSideRyan]

I stupidly loved the Baker hire. I wish I could blame being in 8th grade, but I was not.

 

Same. I was younger than Brandon though.

[SouthSideRyan]

his veteran fetishes were well documented and i think his awful batting orders (and i'm the last guy to bitch about batting order - you almost had to go out of your way to come up with worse ones than he did) were common knowledge at the time, i think

 

I had several long posts on cubs.com explaining why none of that mattered.

 

And when in doubt, "There's no way Hendry who built up this farm system over the last few years is going to hire a manger who'll destroy it."

[Sammy Sofa]

his veteran fetishes were well documented and i think his awful batting orders (and i'm the last guy to bitch about batting order - you almost had to go out of your way to come up with worse ones than he did) were common knowledge at the time, i think

 

Sure, but I'll bet that vast majority of SF fans who were happy to see him go were just because he didn't seal the deal with a WS win while having maybe the greatest hitter in baseball history. It's easy to forget how long it took a ton of Cubs fans to finally turn on him.

[Guest]

There was a lot of hope for Hendry at that time. He even seemed to have the respect of a lot of the other GM's at that time. But he sure made a mess of things to the point he'll never land a GM job again. It was probably the donuts.

 

All hope was lost for Hendry the day he hired Baker.

 

Agreed.

Really?

 

Obviously it didn't work out well, but at the time, I was happy about it. I thought, "Hey, a manager that I've heard of before! What a treat!" I had no idea how [expletive] in the head he was.

 

I was also in 8th grade.

 

I was in the same place you were back then, although much older. I was just agreeing with Goony's statement about what caused the collapse of Hendry.

 

Looking back at Baker's history of abusing those promising young pitchers makes his horrible line ups a distant second in stupid managerial decisions.

[Guest]

i was 19. i remember thinking it was sort of cool that we got the star manager coming off the world series and that darren baker would be running around wrigley field

 

i think i remember reading a lot of the warning/negative type stuff (and i think i remember some stuff from goony on one of the other boards, but who knows...i think i remembered him being pro teix/anti prior too but he's mentioned that before so that could be why) and being a little wary too.

 

i felt the same about piniella and was pleasantly surprised with how he ended up being.

 

i was kinda worried girardi would suck so i was a little relieved when that didn't work out. maddon was the only hiring i was fully on board with (other than the fact that i thought we were fine with who we had and didn't want to spend too much depending on how real #PTR was)

 

ok i'm just rambling now.

[biittner77]

his veteran fetishes were well documented and i think his awful batting orders (and i'm the last guy to bitch about batting order - you almost had to go out of your way to come up with worse ones than he did) were common knowledge at the time, i think

 

I had several long posts on cubs.com explaining why none of that mattered.

 

And when in doubt, "There's no way Hendry who built up this farm system over the last few years is going to hire a manger who'll destroy it."

 

There was a lot of that going around. I distinctly remember Giants fans complaining about "forfeit Sundays" when Dusty would give all the good players the day off on the same day. They also complained about his unwillingness to play prospects but we laughed because our prospects were so good that he'd want to play them.

[treebird]

his veteran fetishes were well documented and i think his awful batting orders (and i'm the last guy to bitch about batting order - you almost had to go out of your way to come up with worse ones than he did) were common knowledge at the time, i think

 

I had several long posts on cubs.com explaining why none of that mattered.

 

And when in doubt, "There's no way Hendry who built up this farm system over the last few years is going to hire a manger who'll destroy it."

 

There was a lot of that going around. I distinctly remember Giants fans complaining about "forfeit Sundays" when Dusty would give all the good players the day off on the same day. They also complained about his unwillingness to play prospects but we laughed because our prospects were so good that he'd want to play them.

 

oh my god i forgot about forfeit sundays

 

i will always be a dusty buster.

[imb]

i bet he still scores more hot dames than i do