Blackhawks off season

[ARCubsFan]

Is Oduya really gone? Depends on how much he is going for but I think we might be able to keep him.

Oduya looked pretty bad down the stretch

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm amazed at how a hot streak in the playoffs has changed people's opinions on Crawford. Just a couple series ago we were arguing whether he was average or slightly above average. Suddenly he's an untouchable, elite goalie that should be paid like his peers at that level.

 

That's a bit of a strawman. I don't want to trade him because he's an above-average goalie with an appropriate salary and there's no need to create a hole there when there's plenty of quite tradeable, quite expendable assets in line ahead of him.

 

Did *anybody* say he was elite and should be paid as such?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

an injured bishop was more impactful than crawford this series

 

I like it when you really dig your heels in on being obstinately wrong.

[Guest]

I'm amazed at how a hot streak in the playoffs has changed people's opinions on Crawford. Just a couple series ago we were arguing whether he was average or slightly above average. Suddenly he's an untouchable, elite goalie that should be paid like his peers at that level.

 

That's a bit of a strawman. I don't want to trade him because he's an above-average goalie with an appropriate salary and there's no need to create a hole there when there's plenty of quite tradeable, quite expendable assets in line ahead of him.

 

Did *anybody* say he was elite and should be paid as such?

He *is* being paid like an elite goalie. Anyone saying that he earns his salary is implying that he is elite. And largely, they are justifying it by pointing to his great run through part of the playoffs and ignoring the part where he was awful.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The Capocalypse is a yearly ordeal by now, and this seems like one of the least worrisome ones in awhile.

 

There will be some column inches filled with rumors about Seabrook or Crawford, but they're simply going to deal Sharp and Bickell, and let Oduya go. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. None of those three are particularly hurtful losses. Sharp just isn't the player he was even two years ago.

 

Meanwhile, they've got a crop of young players that is already making an impact in the NHL and getting better: Saad, Teravainen, van Riemsdyk, with plenty of candidates to make the leap next year. Those guys add more to the roster than the cap casualties will take away.

 

I'm not saying they'll win again next year. I still think there's more luck in the playoffs than people realize, and this year's team got a lot of it. But they don't look like they're in line for any sort of dropoff to me.

[Guest]

Just to be clear: He's a good goalie. He was a part of the playoff run. I just don't view him as being worth that much more than someone like Raanta. If (and only if) we could get a good return for him, then I think it would be worth making the move. Combine the return on the trade with freeing up that much money to put skaters in front of him and I think the team is better.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He *is* being paid like an elite goalie. Anyone saying that he earns his salary is implying that he is elite. And largely, they are justifying it by pointing to his great run through part of the playoffs and ignoring the part where he was awful.

 

His cap hit is in a three-way tie for 7th among goalies. It's about 300k above 15th. That's not elite under any reasonable definition of the word. It is, like him, above-average.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Guest]

I agree that next year's team could be even better than this one.

[ARCubsFan]

Just to be clear: He's a good goalie. He was a part of the playoff run. I just don't view him as being worth that much more than someone like Raanta. If (and only if) we could get a good return for him, then I think it would be worth making the move. Combine the return on the trade with freeing up that much money to put skaters in front of him and I think the team is better.

no.

[Guest]

Just to be clear: He's a good goalie. He was a part of the playoff run. I just don't view him as being worth that much more than someone like Raanta. If (and only if) we could get a good return for him, then I think it would be worth making the move. Combine the return on the trade with freeing up that much money to put skaters in front of him and I think the team is better.

no.

why?

[Guest]

Seriously, someone tell me something other than "he was awesome in the playoffs"

[ARCubsFan]

Seriously, someone tell me something other than "he was awesome in the playoffs"

The playoffs are all that matters. And it's not like he was bad in the regular season either. 2.27 GAA and 92.4% save percentage (6th in the NHL). And he has 2 Stanley Cups. It takes a special goalie to win the Stanley Cup and Crawford was arguably the MVP on both teams in the postseason. I guarantee you the Hawks don't win the Cup if they stuck with Darling.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Seriously, someone tell me something other than "he was awesome in the playoffs"

 

NHL save percentage, regular season:

 

2013- .912

2014- .915

2015- .915

 

Corey Crawford

2013- .926

2014- .917

2015- .925

 

For contrast, Niemi with the Hawks was .912, Emery was .908, Raanta is .912.

 

He's an above-average goalie. The 15th-ranked goalie in cap hit makes 5.6m. He makes 6m. I don't see the problem here.

[Guest]

Seriously, someone tell me something other than "he was awesome in the playoffs"

The playoffs are all that matters. And it's not like he was bad in the regular season either. 2.27 GAA and 92.4% save percentage (6th in the NHL). And he has 2 Stanley Cups. It takes a special goalie to win the Stanley Cup and Crawford was arguably the MVP on both teams in the postseason. I guarantee you the Hawks don't win the Cup if they stuck with Darling.

Niemi won a cup. Is he an awesome goalie?

[Guest]

Seriously, someone tell me something other than "he was awesome in the playoffs"

 

NHL save percentage, regular season:

 

2013- .912

2014- .915

2015- .915

 

Corey Crawford

2013- .926

2014- .917

2015- .925

 

For contrast, Niemi with the Hawks was .912, Emery was .908, Raanta is .912.

 

He's an above-average goalie. The 15th-ranked goalie in cap hit makes 5.6m. He makes 6m. I don't see the problem here.

You skipped '12 when he wasn't as good, but I guess the argument there is that he has made adjustments since then. What I would point out in return is that his save percentage is likely high because the Hawks are a very good defensive team. I don't know enough about any way to pull those things apart in hockey.

 

As I've said, he's not a problem. He's a good player. But I think the market may dramatically overprice him at this point. If that's the case, I think it would be smart to take advantage.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I listed several recent goalies who have played in front of the same defense with lesser results.

 

When have the Blackhawks under this regime ever made one of those fantasy-stock-market type trades on a guy they really liked? The blueprint for the capocalypses have been clear: Keep the guys you like, regardless of what you could get.

[MarkR]

Seriously, someone tell me something other than "he was awesome in the playoffs"

The playoffs are all that matters. And it's not like he was bad in the regular season either. 2.27 GAA and 92.4% save percentage (6th in the NHL). And he has 2 Stanley Cups. It takes a special goalie to win the Stanley Cup and Crawford was arguably the MVP on both teams in the postseason. I guarantee you the Hawks don't win the Cup if they stuck with Darling.

Niemi won a cup. Is he an awesome goalie?

 

Those Cup Series games with Philly were extremely high scoring. Niemi had a save % of .910. Below average. It was foreseeable that he'd not be worth a large contract going forward from there.

 

Converseley, Crow's save % in the last three playoff series are .932, 913, and .924. That .924 does include getting shellacked. He was lights out the rest of the playoffs. So again, as Kyle has pointed out, he's not being paid all that much relative to other goalies and he's really really good in the postseason when it matters the most.

[Guest]

I listed several recent goalies who have played in front of the same defense with lesser results.

 

When have the Blackhawks under this regime ever made one of those fantasy-stock-market type trades on a guy they really liked? The blueprint for the capocalypses have been clear: Keep the guys you like, regardless of what you could get.

Crawford's first year he was under .900, wasn't he? I think there's plenty of room for improvement from Raanta.

[Guest]

Seriously, someone tell me something other than "he was awesome in the playoffs"

The playoffs are all that matters. And it's not like he was bad in the regular season either. 2.27 GAA and 92.4% save percentage (6th in the NHL). And he has 2 Stanley Cups. It takes a special goalie to win the Stanley Cup and Crawford was arguably the MVP on both teams in the postseason. I guarantee you the Hawks don't win the Cup if they stuck with Darling.

Niemi won a cup. Is he an awesome goalie?

 

Those Cup Series games with Philly were extremely high scoring. Niemi had a save % of .910. Below average. It was foreseeable that he'd not be worth a large contract going forward from there.

 

Converseley, Crow's save % in the last three playoff series are .932, 913, and .924. That .924 does include getting shellacked. He was lights out the rest of the playoffs. So again, as Kyle has pointed out, he's not being paid all that much relative to other goalies and he's really really good in the postseason when it matters the most.

You mean playoff series or years?

[MarkR]

Years, not series. My bad.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Crawford's first year he was under .900, wasn't he? I think there's plenty of room for improvement from Raanta.

 

That's entirely possible, but I don't see why the Blackhawks should be interested in giving him that chance when they've got a perfectly cromulent starting goalie right now.

[Guest]

I listed several recent goalies who have played in front of the same defense with lesser results.

 

When have the Blackhawks under this regime ever made one of those fantasy-stock-market type trades on a guy they really liked? The blueprint for the capocalypses have been clear: Keep the guys you like, regardless of what you could get.

Crawford's first year he was under .900, wasn't he? I think there's plenty of room for improvement from Raanta.

Wait are we talking about 2006 where he played two games, because I don't see anything below .900 other than that.

 

I'm with Kyle though. Even if there is room for improvement for Raanta, I don't see why we should take that leap and find out when we're very much a contender and Crawford's deal still doesn't really hurt us.

[Guest]

Crawford's first year he was under .900, wasn't he? I think there's plenty of room for improvement from Raanta.

Wait are we talking about 2006 where he played two games, because I don't see anything below .900 other than that.

11-12 he was at .903 in the regular season and .893 in the postseason.

 

I believe that's the year I was thinking of.

[Guest]

Seriously, someone tell me something other than "he was awesome in the playoffs"

 

the rest of his nhl career? he's played 5 full seasons. 2 of them have been fantastic, 2 of them have been good, and only 1 of them has been bad. the blackhawks are blessed with a hall of fame core of forwards and defensemen. maybe it's worth overpaying a goalie by a little to bring stability to that part of the team. goaltending is not a good place to skimp when you know the rest of the team is in good shape.

 

he's overpaid, and there is a good argument to be made for trading him. but calling him average, or saying that he wasn't important in the last 2 runs? completely disagree. he's been one of their most valuable players in the last few playoffs.

 

the real question is why people fawn all over jonathan quick for doing less than crawford has done

[Guest]

The Capocalypse is a yearly ordeal by now, and this seems like one of the least worrisome ones in awhile.

 

There will be some column inches filled with rumors about Seabrook or Crawford, but they're simply going to deal Sharp and Bickell, and let Oduya go. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. None of those three are particularly hurtful losses. Sharp just isn't the player he was even two years ago.

 

Meanwhile, they've got a crop of young players that is already making an impact in the NHL and getting better: Saad, Teravainen, van Riemsdyk, with plenty of candidates to make the leap next year. Those guys add more to the roster than the cap casualties will take away.

 

I'm not saying they'll win again next year. I still think there's more luck in the playoffs than people realize, and this year's team got a lot of it. But they don't look like they're in line for any sort of dropoff to me.

 

it's going to be fun when people who dislike the hawks are surprised when they don't lose much this offseason. we're in good shape.