Executive Approval Poll - Post Trade Deadline 2014

[Guest]

It's fine for people to change their opinions. I recommend it. It's just uncanny how those opinions always seem to be changing lately in ways that aim to make Epstein's failures more defensible, and it's dumb to act hysterical about how dumb people are for not changing with you.

 

 

It was a really good return for what Garza turned into by 2013, but it was a very meh return compared to what he could have gotten a year and a half earlier.

 

which was jacob turner on the high end...so like, if we're using hindsight, meh.

Edited August 4, 2014 by David

[TruffleShuffle]

so kyle can change his opinion on the value of what the cubs got back for garza like a year later, but nobody can have a different opinion about the value of garza versus gio gonzalez like 4 years later.

[SouthSideRyan]

Jesus. players aren't traded based on fangraphs WAR. and good luck selling opposing GMs on garza being a 5 win player when he was regularly a 2-3 win player for every other season of his career, he had just posted his first FIP under 4.00 and his home run rate magically halved in his career year. not to mention that gonzalez had more arbitration years left and had just posted two seasons of 200 innings and an ERA a shade over 3.

 

The good thing is Gio Gonzalez was an easy sell as a 5 win player what with his 6.6 fWAR over 535 career innings.

 

do you seriously believe that i have been arguing gio gonzalez is or was viewed as a 5 win player? or is it that you just cannot engage in an argument/discussion without creating some absurd strawman?

 

I don't know what you're arguing. Garza's most recent season isn't going to change anybody's mind about what type of pitcher he is, but Gio Gonzalez's 2 seasons will?

 

Do you think 2 years of Garza coming off his best season returns more than 2 months of Garza coming off an injury?

 

ETA: The funny thing is it appears OUR FO decided Garza was going to perform closer to that 5 win player, otherwise they would've sold high before the season we all agree they weren't trying to win at. Instead they figured he'd at least pitch well enough until July to return something just as good for 1.5 seasons vs. 2.

 

They gambled and lost, it happens. They did the same with Marmol, and probably Soto.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't know what you're arguing. Garza's most recent season isn't going to change anybody's mind about what type of pitcher he is, but Gio Gonzalez's 2 seasons will?

 

Do you think 2 years of Garza coming off his best season returns more than 2 months of Garza coming off an injury?

 

ETA: The funny thing is it appears OUR FO decided Garza was going to perform closer to that 5 win player, otherwise they would've sold high before the season we all agree they weren't trying to win at. Instead they figured he'd at least pitch well enough until July to return something just as good for 1.5 seasons vs. 2.

 

They gambled and lost, it happens. They did the same with Marmol, and probably Soto.

 

the original discussion began because kyle said that gonzalez was an inferior pitcher to garza. which i disputed; kyle used their fangraphs WAR to attempt to justify his assertion. i don't think that's really an accurate view of garza's ability, since that year was far better than any other year that garza had pitched. plus garza's "traditional stats" (ERA/ERA+) were inferior to those of gonzalez' in the previous two seasons, and gonzalez was just reaching arbitration eligibility for the first time - which put him two years behind garza. that's massive. i don't see garza as having had the same value on the trade market as gio gonzalez.

 

and let's be honest about the a's return for gonzalez - they've ended up being pretty fortunate in that deal. cole is basically reaching his ceiling; he's stayed healthy and his secondary deliveries have really come along. derek norris was a three true outcomes player in the minors and hit .210 the year that he was traded - his contact rate has increased drastically in the majors. he's at or above the ceiling that most people expected him at (which was a mickey tettleton-like catcher). they even got as much out of milone as they could really have expected. brad peacock was the only one who hasn't really panned out, but they still used him to get jed lowrie. even if the cubs could have gotten that kind of return for garza, it's unlikely that prospects ranked that highly are going to turn out as well as those that the a's acquired.

 

and your point about selling low on garza, soto and marmol is a valid one, but that's going to happen sometimes to any organization. just as an example, soto was rookie of the year, followed by a bad season, followed by a very good one, followed by a mediocre one. i suppose they could've gotten something reasonable for him after the mediocre 2011 season, but there was always the risk that he'd have another big year like he did in 2008 and 2010, and then the sale would look like a poor one in hindsight.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm changing my vote to yes because Javy is coming to fix everything.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm changing my vote to yes because Javy is coming to fix everything.

Hahaha, I came to check this out to see if you were doing just that.

[Sammy Sofa]

[expletive], THAT WAS MY IDEA FIRST BUT I WAS IN MEETINGS.

 

Can someone change my status to "cockeyed optimist?"

[TruffleShuffle]

hahaha i love it, there were at least 2 no votes a few hours ago. optimism abounds! (until baez goes 1-12 with 8 k's in the first series)

[Sammy Sofa]

I expect Baez to suck at first; that's why I wanted him up ASAP. It will be glorious.

[imb]

yeah first ever bat flip following a 3-pitch swinging strikeout and it will own bones

[treebird]

yeah first ever bat flip following a 3-pitch swinging strikeout and it will own bones

 

batflip baez is going to be my favorite nickname ever