Executive Approval Poll - Post Trade Deadline 2014

[TruffleShuffle]

because we all know that a player's trade value is predicated solely on his most recent season's fangraphs WAR, while things like ERA, FIP, injury history, strikeout rate, and previous seasons' performance have no bearing. if only theo had convinced another general manager to gaze at garza's 2.95 FIP in 2011 while ignoring that his FIP had been over 4.00 every other season in his major league career.

[jersey cubs fan]

The job of these guys is to field a competitive major league baseball team. These guys are in a unique and extremely safe and cushy situation with no expectations because unlikely literally anybody else they do not have a win a single game in the majors to be considered to be doing their job. These guys have an unprecedented single mandate to build up the farm system, which is incredibly easy to do when you are tanking every season and under no pressure to actually graduate prospects or use them in trades to try and improve the major league team.

 

They are doing a good job at doing the only part of their job they have focused on, the easy part, while the only part that actually matters, the major league team, has been completely forsaken. But given that ownership has either allowed or mandated them to act this way, they can't be completely blamed for taking the easy way out and putting together garbage major league teams.

 

I see no reason to vote yes or no on this issue.

[TruffleShuffle]

:lol:

[Hairyducked Idiot]

because we all know that a player's trade value is predicated solely on his most recent season's fangraphs WAR, while things like ERA, FIP, injury history, strikeout rate, and previous seasons' performance have no bearing. if only theo had convinced another general manager to gaze at garza's 2.95 FIP in 2011 while ignoring that his FIP had been over 4.00 every other season in his major league career.

 

Sounds like the front office blew it and missed a sell-high opportunity.

[TruffleShuffle]

also sounds like some people don't understand how player valuation works.

 

not to mention that they still traded guy they "missed their opportunity" to sell high on, and got such a return that the other general manager admitted to getting ripped off.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

also sounds like some people don't understand how player valuation works.

 

Sounds like your definition of player valuation is "whatever I have to make up as I go to absolve the front office of everything, ever."

 

not to mention that they still traded guy they "missed their opportunity" to sell high on, and got such a return that the other general manager admitted to getting ripped off.

 

Holy crap is that dumb quote by Daniels, mostly based on how they didn't get to the playoffs, ever causing people to overrate the crap out of the middling return we got for Garza.

[Guest]

I can't wait until CJ Edwards is awesome again and you're throwing your hands in the air over pitcher valuation in a few months.

[TruffleShuffle]

yes because i don't think that cherry picking one season of fangraphs WAR while ignoring every other season and statistic is an accurate representation of how a player would be valued on the trade market, that's exactly it davearm, i mean kyle.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Let's ask a really smart poster in Jan. 2012 about the relative valuation of Garza at the time.

 

Take it away, TT:

 

"Climbing toward market rate prices" in this case apparently means ~30 million in surplus value over two years.

 

Well, yeah.

 

$30 million in surplus value over two years isn't enough to get you multiple blue chip prospects, unless teams get really desperate for starting pitching. They might get that desperate eventually, but at the moment it doesn't seem that way.

 

It's not? Gio Gonzalez just got the proverbial truck of prospects backed up for him to provide what, 40 million in surplus value over 4 years? Mat Latos was largely the same as well, and both of those guys pitch in canyons that might mask their true ability a touch.

Both of them were younger and under team control for longer.

 

And also not as productive, that's why we're talking about the surplus value added over the duration of their team control.

 

 

Man, only *crazy* people think Garza had comparable value to those guys. Or that his being more productive in 2011 was relevant.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Hairyducked Idiot]

yes because i don't think that cherry picking one season of fangraphs WAR while ignoring every other season and statistic is an accurate representation of how a player would be valued on the trade market, that's exactly it davearm, i mean kyle.

 

What exactly are you basing your surplus value figures on? Last year's WAR?

 

An expected WAR(~5 WAR for Garza, ~3.5 for Gio and Latos), which obviously is heavily influenced by last year.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I get that you aren't one of our better baseball minds here, and that you make up for it by acting horrified at every single contrary opinion and pretending like it's the dumbest thing you've ever heard. You don't have a lot of clubs in your bag, so it's a shot you have to take pretty much every time.

 

But please, leave these discussions to your betters.

[Guest]

cringe factor is so high on uppity faux cocky Kyle

[TruffleShuffle]

Jesus. players aren't traded based on fangraphs WAR. and good luck selling opposing GMs on garza being a 5 win player when he was regularly a 2-3 win player for every other season of his career, he had just posted his first FIP under 4.00 and his home run rate magically halved in his career year. not to mention that gonzalez had more arbitration years left and had just posted two seasons of 200 innings and an ERA a shade over 3.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

cringe factor is so high on uppity faux cocky Kyle

 

I'm remembering now why I had Truffle on ignore, and am glad to go back to it. He's so aggressively bad.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

cringe factor is so high on uppity faux cocky Kyle

 

It's not faux.

 

I didn't see a lot of this "Oh man, his FIP has always been over 4 before last year!" in the offseason of 2012.

 

It's a total about-face. Which is fine, I don't have a problem with people changing their minds. But to then act like someone who agrees with the consensus at the time is being dumb and crazy? Get out of here with that weak crap.

[TruffleShuffle]

cringe factor is so high on Kyle

 

that works too

[SouthSideRyan]

http://i.imgur.com/s3HnORX.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/WlTRA5D.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/gn3jXFz.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/59v3yAF.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/shz6fnY.png

 

That A's roster is pretty shitty

[Guest]

Yes, I was too lazy to do pitching staffs too, but that's definitely where the A's had their strength, and proceeded to make a bunch of trades from that strength after 2011. They also had the biggest single prospect impact with Donaldson becoming an MVP candidate.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yes, I was too lazy to do pitching staffs too, but that's definitely where the A's had their strength, and proceeded to make a bunch of trades from that strength after 2011. They also had the single biggest prospect impact with Donaldson becoming an MVP candidate.

 

The Cubs had some pitching too that they could have traded from.

 

Replace Donaldson's fWAR with Valbuena's in 2013 and the A's still win the division.

[SouthSideRyan]

Jesus. players aren't traded based on fangraphs WAR. and good luck selling opposing GMs on garza being a 5 win player when he was regularly a 2-3 win player for every other season of his career, he had just posted his first FIP under 4.00 and his home run rate magically halved in his career year. not to mention that gonzalez had more arbitration years left and had just posted two seasons of 200 innings and an ERA a shade over 3.

 

The good thing is Gio Gonzalez was an easy sell as a 5 win player what with his 6.6 fWAR over 535 career innings.

[SouthSideRyan]

Yes, I was too lazy to do pitching staffs too, but that's definitely where the A's had their strength, and proceeded to make a bunch of trades from that strength after 2011. They also had the biggest single prospect impact with Donaldson becoming an MVP candidate.

 

Well we did turn our existing pitching into Samardzija the starter, Travis Wood, and Anthony Rizzo.

[TruffleShuffle]

Jesus. players aren't traded based on fangraphs WAR. and good luck selling opposing GMs on garza being a 5 win player when he was regularly a 2-3 win player for every other season of his career, he had just posted his first FIP under 4.00 and his home run rate magically halved in his career year. not to mention that gonzalez had more arbitration years left and had just posted two seasons of 200 innings and an ERA a shade over 3.

 

The good thing is Gio Gonzalez was an easy sell as a 5 win player what with his 6.6 fWAR over 535 career innings.

 

do you seriously believe that i have been arguing gio gonzalez is or was viewed as a 5 win player? or is it that you just cannot engage in an argument/discussion without creating some absurd strawman?

[TruffleShuffle]

Holy crap is that dumb quote by Daniels, mostly based on how they didn't get to the playoffs, ever causing people to overrate the crap out of the middling return we got for Garza.

 

The PTBNL news is really nice. This is a really good return for Garza, all told.

[Guest]

Holy crap is that dumb quote by Daniels, mostly based on how they didn't get to the playoffs, ever causing people to overrate the crap out of the middling return we got for Garza.

 

The PTBNL news is really nice. This is a really good return for Garza, all told.

 

he's going to come back with stuff about how hindsight matters and he's allowed to change his opinion on it as time goes

 

that or he'll blame a wizard for posting that

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's fine for people to change their opinions. I recommend it. It's just uncanny how those opinions always seem to be changing lately in ways that aim to make Epstein's failures more defensible, and it's dumb to act hysterical about how dumb people are for not changing with you.

 

 

It was a really good return for what Garza turned into by 2013, but it was a very meh return compared to what he could have gotten a year and a half earlier.