2014 NFL Draft Thread

[NOLA]

You basically stated the moment felt less genuine to you because it was a manufactured moment for a reality tv show, when in reality you saw what you saw by watching a reality tv show that manufactures drama for three days every spring.

 

You're feelings on the moment shouldn't have changed. It was always a manufactured moment there and Sam always had control over what cameras would or wouldn't be there.

 

 

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Ok, I think I understand that now, but I still disagree. And I think you're changing your argument a bit now, pivoting from "you're painting Sam as a gay drama queen" to "you should have known it was a bit staged to begin with".

 

Yes, everyone acts a bit differently when they know that a camera is on them. It's human nature. But when you're starring in a show about yourself are being filmed and directed by a professional crew who's job it is to make the scene as entertaining as possible for the screen, yes, it loses some authenticity to me. For the record, I think the kiss was completely real and in the moment. It's the rest of it I'm not completely sold on.

[WrigleyField 22]

You were trying to paint him as attention seeking and only backtracked to the "I didn't realize it was staged before" argument before realizing how silly that stance was, which we are happy to point out, since it was always staged.

 

I suppose the gay thing never really came from you but otherwise we're all just leading you down the path you're setting up. I mean the cake thing, really. Trying to connect it to a tv producer...

 

 

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[Guest]

You were trying to paint him as attention seeking and only backtracked to the "I didn't realize it was staged before" argument before realizing how silly that stance was, which we are happy to point out, since it was always staged.

 

"painting him as attention seeking":

 

Anticlimactic now, but it has been reported that the film crew was in the room filming the now famous scene when he found out the Rams were selecting him. What seemed like a wonderful, spontaneous moment now seems much cheaper and manufactured.

 

I don't get the whole point of the argument. Having draft cameras around means the whole thing is likely to be less than 100% authentic. Having a crew for a reality show about you, even more so. If you're cynical, it's not unreasonable to think that it's even less authentic than the < 100% it would've been without the reality show folks there. It's not a binary thing.

[WrigleyField 22]

Unless it's a home video a camera is a camera and it's a manufactured moment, so I don't understand the cynical thing. A cynical person would be cynical about the ESPN cameras.

 

 

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[NOLA]

You were trying to paint him as attention seeking and only backtracked to the "I didn't realize it was staged before" argument before realizing how silly that stance was, which we are happy to point out, since it was always staged.

 

I suppose the gay thing never really came from you but otherwise we're all just leading you down the path you're setting up. I mean the cake thing, really. Trying to connect it to a tv producer...

 

 

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Holy [expletive] man. No, no no. Now you are presuming to know my motivations?

Am I really defending myself as to why I felt as though the scene was a bit phony? I suppose anyone who signs up for reality TV is "attention seeking" to some degree, so yeah I guess. As to the second part, I honestly have no idea what path I am setting up. I really have no idea what you are accusing me of doing here.

[NOLA]

I don't get the whole point of the argument.

Nor do I, but I keep feeling the need to defend myself against...really I have no idea. I think the OWN show cheapened the moment a little. Not completely, but yeah, a little in my mind. If that makes me cynical, ok, but what exactly is the other sinister motive I have here?

[WrigleyField 22]

It can't possibly make you cynical because a cynical person believes ESPN cameras cheapen the moment.

 

 

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[WrigleyField 22]

You don't have to defend why you thought it was cheapened but some people are just pointing out that it was a little silly for the stance to change because of the presence of OWN cameras. If you want to defend that flip, that's okay, but there really isn't much defense unless you live in the delusional world of purity of sports.

 

 

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[NOLA]

It can't possibly make you cynical because a cynical person believes ESPN cameras cheapen the moment.

 

 

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ESPN cameras are there to capture a live moment. The OWN production crew was there to tape a show about him, take it back to the studio and make into the most entertaining show they can. Can you not even grant that there is a difference there? And even if you can't, will you acknowledge that I actually think people would react differently?

 

I really wish you would sack up and actually tell me what it is I am supposedly leading to here.

Edited May 22, 2014 by NOLA

[WrigleyField 22]

You were trying to paint him as attention seeking and only backtracked to the "I didn't realize it was staged before" argument before realizing how silly that stance was, which we are happy to point out, since it was always staged.

 

"painting him as attention seeking":

Also this:

 

Now this? I applaud the Rams for picking Sam, but if he becomes a prima donna they are going to find themselves in a tough position.

On a related note, I have heard a few times that he was not the greatest teammate at Mizzou but haven't heard any details. Anyone know anything to this?

 

 

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[WrigleyField 22]

It can't possibly make you cynical because a cynical person believes ESPN cameras cheapen the moment.

 

 

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ESPN cameras are there to capture a live moment. The OWN production crew was there to tape, take it back to the studio and make into the most entertaining show they can. Can you not even grant that there is a difference there? And even if you can't, will you acknowledge that I actually think people would react differently?

 

I really wish you would sack up and actually tell me what it is I am supposedly leading to here.

I'm not sure you're intentionally leading anywhere, but you've walked yourself in some weird loop where suddenly ESPN cameras were just there to capture live moments and OWN cameras were there to manufacture drama. You know what's a great way to manufacture drama? Put someone in front of a tv crew on live TV. There wasn't some journalistic /reporting need for ESPN to film there or in the manner they did. They were there because it had good odds of drama.

 

I'll grant people do act differently though in front of a live tv crew verse a documentary. In a non-live setting they usually need booze to get an emotional effect like that.

 

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Edited May 22, 2014 by WrigleyField 22

[WrigleyField 22]

By the way you seem to think I'm jumping down your throat, but I made one snarky comment after you insinuated that maybe the OWN tv producers were responsible for cake at a party.

 

 

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[NOLA]

I honest to god think we are arguing circles around each other here. I meant exactly what I said, that I thought the OWN cameras made the event less genuine, almost by design in fact. There is nothing else to it, and I have no agenda. I honestly don't care one way or the other about him. I just made an observation about how it struck me. Smack actually was the one to bring up the cake scene being staged, FYI.

 

I consider anyone who signs up for a reality tv show to be a little narcissistic and if Theo or Castro or Javy did it I would be annoyed by it, because seldom is reality TV based in reality. Yes, I think most understand that even Pawn Stars or American Pickers manufactures drama. Whatever, and get off my lawn why you're at it.

 

I asked about the rumors at Mizzou because I had just heard a sports radio guy suggest it then he left it at that. Someone answered, and I didn't bring it back up. Question answered.

 

I really have said WAY too much about a comment about how I felt about the TV show. Unless you feel like I am holding something back, in which case you should just come out and tell me what that is.

[WrigleyField 22]

If you don't want to defend your view I totally understand because these conversations get exhausting. I don't have any good reason to believe you're holding back on anything. Re: cake scene I know you didn't bring it up, but seemed to agree with it. Though honestly you'd have a better argument if you stick more to the cake thing and how they playfully smashed it like it was a wedding.

 

But if I had one last question to ask it would be why inviting/allowing ESPN cameras into your home on draft day makes you any less attention seeking and narcissistic? And while I understand it's pretty common, I think all those guys who do, do so from a narcissistic place.

 

 

 

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[NOLA]

If you don't want to defend your view I totally understand because these conversations get exhausting.

What are you talking about? My view that I felt it was cheapened a bit? I have covered that over and over. Are you just being obtuse?

[WrigleyField 22]

See the last part of the quote. What you haven't conveyed is why ESPN cameras aren't there to manufacture drama and also just as much of an indicator of narcissism. All you've offered is editing as the primary difference while ignoring the live tv aspect of ESPN cameras.

 

 

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[SpongeWorthy]

didntreadlol.gif

[NOLA]

See the last part of the quote. What you haven't conveyed is why ESPN cameras aren't there to manufacture drama and also just as much of an indicator of narcissism. All you've offered is editing as the primary difference while ignoring the live tv aspect of ESPN cameras.

 

OK, this is it.

This was my reaction, not something to be proven or disproven. ESPN is ESPN. It's a big deal for the draftees but the ones who are usually followed have likely been in front of a camera several times. Sam was the only draftee I am aware of that had a production crew there to film an ongoing show about his story by directors who make reality shows on television, most of which are filled with staged scenes. That is exactly why I think it is at least reasonable to assume that the OWN people were more than just observers capturing the moment on film. It wouldn't surprise me if the cake and the feeding each other was all their idea, as well coaching him to play to the camera. It's what they do. You disagree.

 

Again, this was my reaction and subsequent opinion. Others saw it as a completely organic moment, so be it. There really is nothing more to it than that.

[WrigleyField 22]

I don't disagree with what OWN did or didn't do since I wasn't there, but it's almost as if you're holding ESPN to a higher journalistic pedigree which isn't necessarily true. They're just as much about drama as Bravo, OWN, and most other cable networks. Now it is possible for ESPN to capture more organic drama in the form of live sporting events, but the draft is not a sporting event but a big production not dissimilar to a reality show. The cynical reasoning first offered I viewed as a weird back track. And I think you still have a weird view of what the draft is in it's nature, which is primarily an event driven by drama.

 

 

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[NOLA]

I don't disagree with what OWN did or didn't do since I wasn't there, but it's almost as if you're holding ESPN to a higher journalistic pedigree

No. I mostly loathe ESPN. I agree that they manufacture [expletive] to keep people watching.

 

And I think you still have a weird view of what the draft is in it's nature, which is primarily an event driven by drama.

No, I think we agree on what the draft is. Where our disconnect lies is just how far into "artistic license" TV producers go in producing reality shows, and also Sam's reaction to being filmed for "The Michael Sam Show" or whatever.

[WrigleyField 22]

I don't get it. I watch a lot of shitty reality television because of my wife and they mostly manipulate people's emotional reactions with copious amounts of booze, or by placing people in totally not real and unfamiliar social settings. ESPN does it by sticking you on live tv on the second most nerve racking day of your life (first for most athletes, second for Sam) and in this case, at the very least, an odd social setting. I can't see how Sam is able and/or more willing to coax some emotional reaction out of himself if OWN is there verse a ESPN camera crew. If it's an ability thing, he should be at least a day time actor and not a football player. If it's a willingness thing, a prima donna as you called him is willing to ham it up to any camera.

 

Editing remains your only true refuting point still. So OWN edits and ESPN put the pressure of live tv with also the expectation that if it's good it will be edited and played over and over that day as well as for future uses in their wide array of original programming. It's clear ESPN covered this as a human story first and a sports story second, so that's not even an out.

 

OWN and ESPN are cut from the same cloth and Sam's willingness to 'work' with each is driven from the same level of narcissism.

 

 

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[UMFan83]

This is either the fakest lawsuit ever or the biggest scandal in sports history is brewing. I'm guessing the former.

 

http://deadspin.com/25-million-lawsuit-filed-against-johnny-manziel-is-bat-1580596256

 

In it, this "girl" alleges:

 

-Manziel repeatedly send her pictures of his penis, measured at 4.5 inches. He also sent her a picture of Clowney's penis

-Manziel admitted to using steroids

-Manziel admitted to repeatedly receiving under the table payments while at A&M

-Manziel really takes ownership of his small penis

 

And more

 

Also the supposed defendant is a CNN contributor.

 

Pretty sure its fake

[ConstableRabbit]

Pretty sure its fake

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/031/c/5/nicolas_cage_meme_3__by_chicapanda-d5te4xx.jpg

[UMFan83]

Captain Obvious to the rescue!

[ConstableRabbit]

I actually hope it's real. I LOL'd at the It's A Small World part.