2014 Roster Discussion

[A New Era]

The smart people know the results have been on the farm. And that they have purposely targeted the farm and the farm only. Sucks as though it might be, that is the simple truth of the matter.

[Guest]

The smart people know the results have been on the farm. And that they have purposely targeted the farm and the farm only. Sucks as though it might be, that is the simple truth of the matter.

 

And it's not some great accomplishment to get "results" on the farm when you put like 10% as much effort into being good at the MLB level.

 

 

I'll give them credit for being right on their picks so far, but that's about it. Even with that said, we won't know if they were really right for a while. But at least we haven't wasted a draft on a Colvin or Harvey or something yet.

[Guest]

The smart people know the results have been on the farm. And that they have purposely targeted the farm and the farm only. Sucks as though it might be, that is the simple truth of the matter.

Is that supposed to be a good thing?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The smart people know the results have been on the farm. And that they have purposely targeted the farm and the farm only. Sucks as though it might be, that is the simple truth of the matter.

 

Congratulations, front office. You are succeedingly wildly at a tangential support arm of your job while failing miserably at your actual job.

[Soul]

Even the dumb people know the Cubs are only doing half their job right now.

[A New Era]

never said it was a good thing. Just said it's the simple truth. No point arguing what you THINK they are doing. It's painfully obvious what they have been doing.

[Guest]

The smart people know the results have been on the farm. And that they have purposely targeted the farm and the farm only. Sucks as though it might be, that is the simple truth of the matter.

 

This is just a silly perspective. Theo/Jed inherited a farm system and MLB team that were a mess. Both had their bright spots, but there were fundamentally broken things about both that needed correcting(the aging/near-FA of the MLB roster, player development on the farm).

 

They've been able to make more progress on the farm(which is an accomplishment, as much as some might want to think otherwise) because they have the resources to do so. Re-writing the Cubs Way doesn't cost 100 million, neither does changing instruction. The "blowout" spending they've done to acquire high end guys adds up to about as much as adding Carlos Villanueva.

 

Conversely, adding to the MLB roster(especially in a way that doesn't lead you back to the same roster construction as the 2011 team had) is expensive. They've spent to the amount that ownership has enabled them to, Theo has explicitly said as much, and they've spent on the players they find valuable(last year alone they added ~35 million to payroll in free agency). The only way in which they've ignored the MLB roster to support the farm is by trading away potential FA at the deadline when it became clear the team was not going to be competitive. This helped push them up a few draft spots, but it hardly seems a primary motivation given how they held on to Garza, Samardzija, even Schierholtz when the offers were not to their liking. They've added MLB pieces(Strop, Arrieta, Grimm) and prospects(Vizcaino, Villanueva, Olt, Edwards) from those deals, with the prospects typically coming at AA or above, again pointing towards not simply trying to strip the MLB roster of any value.

 

It's irritating that the Front Office hasn't been able to spend more. It's also irritating that multiple rules changes have seemingly made things harder on them than anticipated. But the narrative that they don't care about the MLB team or that their sole focus is on the farm is just wrong.

[Backtobanks]

All the really smart people know results don't matter except when they do matter at some point in the not too distant future.

 

You mean that time in the not too distance future when the Cubs make up 20-25 games on the 3 teams in the division that have prospects as good as ours.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's irritating that the Front Office hasn't been able to spend more. It's also irritating that multiple rules changes have seemingly made things harder on them than anticipated. But the narrative that they don't care about the MLB team or that their sole focus is on the farm is just wrong.

 

They've got a bad team, an amazingly deep farm system, and they've added two relievers, a backup outfielder and a backup catcher. If they cared about the MLB team and the money was that big of an issue, it'd be time to trade prospects for cheap MLB upgrades.

[Guest]

It's irritating that the Front Office hasn't been able to spend more. It's also irritating that multiple rules changes have seemingly made things harder on them than anticipated. But the narrative that they don't care about the MLB team or that their sole focus is on the farm is just wrong.

 

They've got a bad team, an amazingly deep farm system, and they've added two relievers, a backup outfielder and a backup catcher. If they cared about the MLB team and the money was that big of an issue, it'd be time to trade prospects for cheap MLB upgrades.

 

My biggest issue with the front office at the moment is that they haven't taken advantage of the trade market more, especially the way names were moving early this offseason. That said, whether or not you think it's time to trade prospects probably reflects your belief on the money they had/have to spend. If their interest in Tanaka is only if they can get him for ~10-12 AAV and the payroll hovers around 90 million(or worse), then yeah, they definitely needed to do more in the trade market. Personally, I don't think they'd sit on money they have to spend for so long knowing that they have slim odds at that price, so I'm more inclined to believe they can make a serious run at getting him and having payroll basically flat to last year.

 

At that point the question becomes, would you rather wait it out and try to get Tanaka(who we thought we'd know his fate by Christmas), or would you rather have given up on that dream when his future was in doubt and players were going off the board and tried to snag something like Murphy/Young and Kazmir, or maybe even Granderson and Hughes? I don't think there's an obvious answer there.

[sneakypower]

my biggest main problem with the FO's performance so far* has been with their unflinchingly risk-averse nature; they were put in a situation where they pretty much inherited a expansion team, and still, with nothing at all to lose, they seemingly avoided any high-reward gambles at every turn- this is the exact opposite of how it should have been

 

a team with zero expectations to contend (and little in the way of available funds) is in a perfect situation to make some of these moves:

 

• sign Francisco Liriano (29) - all it took was 2/14, even before his contract had to be voided and renegotiated lower

• sign Chris B. Young (30) - signed for 1/7

• trade for Peter Bourjos (26) - hard to think we couldn't top an offer of Freese, also he was considered expendable the previous offseason as well

• trade for Dom Brown (25) - Phillies had publicly all but given up on him and were very interested in Soriano; i think money was a sticking point for us

• sign Josh Johnson (29) - took 1/8, maybe perhaps a big player option entices him

• trade for Brett Anderson (25)

 

surely there are a few others (6/62 for Ryu?) i'm forgetting, but those are the misses that bother(ed) me the most: guys with prior history of high-level play and young enough that you can conceivably add them to your 'core' or build up considerable enough value to flip for something meaningful at the deadline...and the worst-case scenario is they crash and burn and put you closer toward the top-5 draft picks you not-so-secretly want

 

to this day, Ian Stewart is still one of my favorite of their moves because they actually took a gamble on something meaningful: a 24-yo capable defensive 3B with 25 HR / 60 BB ability

 

*i swear i was typing this up before TT's post, so you'll just have to deal with whatever redundancy

[apete6]

my biggest main problem with the FO's performance so far* has been with their unflinchingly risk-averse nature; they were put in a situation where they pretty much inherited a expansion team, and still, with nothing at all to lose, they seemingly avoided any high-reward gambles at every turn- this is the exact opposite of how it should have been

 

a team with zero expectations to contend (and little in the way of available funds) is in a perfect situation to make some of these moves:

 

• sign Francisco Liriano (29) - all it took was 2/14, even before his contract had to be voided and renegotiated lower

• sign Chris B. Young (30) - signed for 1/7

• trade for Peter Bourjos (26) - hard to think we couldn't top an offer of Freese, also he was considered expendable the previous offseason as well

• trade for Dom Brown (25) - Phillies had publicly all but given up on him and were very interested in Soriano; i think money was a sticking point for us

• sign Josh Johnson (29) - took 1/8, maybe perhaps a big player option entices him

• trade for Brett Anderson (25)

 

surely there are a few others (6/62 for Ryu?) i'm forgetting, but those are the misses that bother(ed) me the most: guys with prior history of high-level play and young enough that you can conceivably add them to your 'core' or build up considerable enough value to flip for something meaningful at the deadline...and the worst-case scenario is they crash and burn and put you closer toward the top-5 draft picks you not-so-secretly want

 

to this day, Ian Stewart is still one of my favorite of their moves because they actually took a gamble on something meaningful: a 24-yo capable defensive 3B with 25 HR / 60 BB ability

 

*i swear i was typing this up before TT's post, so you'll just have to deal with whatever redundancy

 

Excellent writeup. This is without mentioning the complete whiff on Cespedes.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm pretty sure there were rumors that we were "in on" every one of those players.

 

I've always remembered one Red Sox fan saying Epstein took almost fanatical pride in setting a sticking point price in every transaction and not budging it even a penny beyond, no matter how much momentum the deal had. I'm ambivalent on how that is working out for the Cubs.

[Soul]

To me it's damning for a FO to claim rebuilding and then come up with a do-nothing offseason like this.

 

They aren't one of the top options for Tanaka, so if that's what was holding them back: fail

[Guest]

To me it's damning for a FO to claim rebuilding and then come up with a do-nothing offseason like this.

 

They aren't one of the top options for Tanaka, so if that's what was holding them back: fail

 

What do you mean by this?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

To me it's damning for a FO to claim rebuilding and then come up with a do-nothing offseason like this.

 

They aren't one of the top options for Tanaka, so if that's what was holding them back: fail

 

What do you mean by this?

 

It's been going around that Tanaka and his wife are pretty much set on NY or LA to help her music career, and that the other teams are just being kept in the conversations to try to drive up the price.

[Guest]

To me it's damning for a FO to claim rebuilding and then come up with a do-nothing offseason like this.

 

They aren't one of the top options for Tanaka, so if that's what was holding them back: fail

 

What do you mean by this?

 

It's been going around that Tanaka and his wife are pretty much set on NY or LA to help her music career, and that the other teams are just being kept in the conversations to try to drive up the price.

 

 

I didn't ask you....

 

I know that rumor existed and I think it's a load of crap.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't know, finding out the wife is a pop star was a big red flag.

[Guest]

I don't know, finding out the wife is a pop star was a big red flag.

 

What the hell music career is his wife going to forge out here?

 

Sounds like sports writer concocted nonsense.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't know, finding out the wife is a pop star was a big red flag.

 

What the hell music career is his wife going to forge out here?

 

Sounds like sports writer concocted nonsense.

 

Who knows what she wants? I'd just have to imagine to an overseas celebrity that NYC and LA have a lot more appeal than Chicago. Maybe she's a lunatic and is convinced they can be the next Beckham and Posh Spice. Hopefully it's nothing.

[Warpticon]

Gonna go out on a limb and say that a 30-year-old Japanese idol singer who doesn't even speak fluent English is in no position to make any kind of moves in America where there's like 0.0000001% demand for that kind of thing, much less demand a location for that specific purpose.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not talking about it like she thinks she's going to have a music career here; just in the "hey, we're both famous, so let's go where the famous people are"-kinda way.

[davell]

No clue, but it'd make sense to me if she's a legit star in Japan, it'd be convenient to cut some air time down by already being on the west coast. In case she needed to go back and forth often.

[Guest]

No clue, but it'd make sense to me if she's a legit star in Japan, it'd be convenient to cut some air time down by already being on the west coast. In case she needed to go back and forth often.

The time savings are pretty overblown.

[davell]

No clue, but it'd make sense to me if she's a legit star in Japan, it'd be convenient to cut some air time down by already being on the west coast. In case she needed to go back and forth often.

The time savings are pretty overblown.

 

You probably save an hour or longer layover, plus a 3 or 4 hour flight. It'd be pretty damn important to me. Especially when a flight from LA to Japan is 10-12 hours as well.