Random Cubs Musings

[Guest]

Manny was a PED user that was known for being aloof and even got into a physical altercation with the team's traveling secretary at the end of his Red Sox days. It's not exactly lip service to explain any changes in his behavior relative to his playing days as part of why you'd want him instructing young players.

[Sammy Sofa]

Or he just says, "he was a good hitter for me and I think he can help coach these players to be better hitters." The rest of it IS unnecessary pandering.

 

People would be (rightly) flipping out if it was Sosa instead of Manny.

[jersey cubs fan]

Manny was a PED user that was known for being aloof and even got into a physical altercation with the team's traveling secretary at the end of his Red Sox days. It's not exactly lip service to explain any changes in his behavior relative to his playing days as part of why you'd want him instructing young players.

Yes, but "turn his life around"? That seems excessive.

[Guest]

Manny was a PED user that was known for being aloof and even got into a physical altercation with the team's traveling secretary at the end of his Red Sox days. It's not exactly lip service to explain any changes in his behavior relative to his playing days as part of why you'd want him instructing young players.

Yes, but "turn his life around"? That seems excessive.

Maybe it's not given what transpired at the end of his time with the Dodgers. I don't know but it seemed like Manny was pretty out of control.

[Sammy Sofa]

If anyone honestly believes Manny the hitting coach is a different person from Manny the player then I would like to trade this delicious doorstop for your crummy old danish.

[Guest]

If anyone honestly believes Manny the hitting coach is a different person from Manny the player then I would like to trade this delicious doorstop for your crummy old danish.

Your stance on this is really obtuse. People can change the way they behave. The biggest changes in behavior often coincide with the biggest changes in circumstance. Not every baseball player is Len Dykstra.

 

Theo may be overly dramatic with regard to Manny, but Manny may have made big changes in how he behaves toward others.

[Sammy Sofa]

If anyone honestly believes Manny the hitting coach is a different person from Manny the player then I would like to trade this delicious doorstop for your crummy old danish.

Your stance on this is really obtuse. People can change the way they behave. The biggest changes in behavior often coincide with the biggest changes in circumstance. Not every baseball player is Len Dykstra.

 

Theo may be overly dramatic with regard to Manny, but Manny may have made big changes in how he behaves toward others.

 

Then say that instead of the melodramatic garbage he said instead (especially since he was never "out of control" or needed to "turn his life around"). As a whole, the Cubs under Ricketts seemed to have enjoyed spouting really pandering meatball-y [expletive] at times to sports hacks who are going to needlessly shred them whenever they feel like it. Manny as a whole has had a rep of being easy to get along with, especially with other players, even when he's had his ups and downs. He's a phenomenal hitter regardless of the PED stuff; this isn't someone you have to jump through hoops for to justify why he'd be brought on as a coach. Theo should be proud of the hire instead of acting like he needs to explain it away.

[KingCubsFan]

If anyone honestly believes Manny the hitting coach is a different person from Manny the player then I would like to trade this delicious doorstop for your crummy old danish.

Your stance on this is really obtuse. People can change the way they behave. The biggest changes in behavior often coincide with the biggest changes in circumstance. Not every baseball player is Len Dykstra.

 

Theo may be overly dramatic with regard to Manny, but Manny may have made big changes in how he behaves toward others.

 

Then say that instead of the melodramatic garbage he said instead (especially since he was never "out of control" or needed to "turn his life around"). As a whole, the Cubs under Ricketts seemed to have enjoyed spouting really pandering meatball-y [expletive] at times to sports hacks who are going to needlessly shred them whenever they feel like it. Manny as a whole has had a rep of being easy to get along with, especially with other players, even when he's had his ups and downs. He's a phenomenal hitter regardless of the PED stuff; this isn't someone you have to jump through hoops for to justify why he'd be brought on as a coach. Theo should be proud of the hire instead of acting like he needs to explain it away.

He needs to justify why he would have Manny tutoring the young prospects that the entire franchise is dependent upon. It's not just that Manny is serving as a hitting coach, it's that he's been personally charged with overseeing guys like Baez, Bryant and Soler. It's really not that hard to understand.

[Sammy Sofa]

He needs to justify why he would have Manny tutoring the young prospects that the entire franchise is dependent upon. It's not just that Manny is serving as a hitting coach, it's that he's been personally charged with overseeing guys like Baez, Bryant and Soler. It's really not that hard to understand.

 

Because he's a great hitter, he and the FO have a good history together and he gets along well with other players; THAT'S really not that hard to understand.

 

Again, how many people here wouldn't be calling out those statements as BS if they were about Sosa instead of Manny?

 

I don't know, I guess Theo is just taking cues from the Cardinals when they had to justify bringing McGwire back as a co-...oh. Right.

 

The Cubs are a pack of spineless wimps when it comes to stuff like this. Just do it and quit kissing the ass of people who can't wait to tear the organization a new one.

[Sammy Sofa]

Look at it this way: if one of the local beat writers had written a piece where they described being "surprised at Manny's hard work" and how he had "turned his life around" and how he seemed to have "found peace" we wouldn't be making [expletive] fun of it for being so awful?

[KingCubsFan]

Look at it this way: if one of the local beat writers had written a piece where they described being "surprised at Manny's hard work" and how he had "turned his life around" and how he seemed to have "found peace" we wouldn't be making [expletive] fun of it for being so awful?

I don't see why you're so upset over this. By the end of his career, Manny had (a) taken steroids, (b) known to quit on his team, © attacked a staff member, and (d) accused of assaulting his wife. Guys like that typically don't get nice jobs in the game after their career is over if they make one of those mistakes, let alone all 4. If a FO trusts a guy like that to hang around their top prospects all the time, it makes sense that they're going to try and defend it a bit. Plus, the more Theo talks him up, the better chance he has of staying in the game in some capacity, whether it's with the Cubs or not.

[Guest]

With Sosa at least there's some deniability. He probably took PEDs, but never tested positive. He probably wasn't liked by his teammates(see: boombox), but never openly fought with one like Ramirez did with Euclis(related: I'm really not sure where your 'Manny was loved by teammates' bit is coming from). I wouldn't want him coaching more from doubting his ability to teach hitting than for reasons of scandal, of course I don't have a problem with Manny the hitting coach even without a 'drastic turnaround' in his life.

 

Really though, this seems emblematic of a strange characterization of Manny I've noticed here. I get it in part, I don't have any moral outrage to PED use, and w/r/t team chemistry I'm heavily on the side of getting talented players and letting a manager worry about juggling personalities. But at the same time, there's a difference in getting a guy to play on your team and entrusting a guy to teach hitting to a team. The downsides to Manny's eccentricities and past improprieties are quite real as a coach, and that's why you see Theo repeating them when talking about Manny. Is he going overboard with it? Maybe, I don't know player Manny or coach Manny. The quotes I've seen from Manny seem to indicate that he's welcoming/encouraging that characterization, and I've seen people have turnarounds in behavior before, so I don't really doubt it. I don't blame you for being skeptical, but it's not really something worth getting worked up at Theo over. It's not the same old PED/Chemistry lip service as it applies to players on the roster.

[SouthSideRyan]

I guess I don't get Mojo's annoyance. He's totally pandering to meatballs, but he's a team President, that's a big part of his job.

[Sammy Sofa]

With Sosa at least there's some deniability. He probably took PEDs, but never tested positive. He probably wasn't liked by his teammates(see: boombox), but never openly fought with one like Ramirez did with Euclis(related: I'm really not sure where your 'Manny was loved by teammates' bit is coming from). I wouldn't want him coaching more from doubting his ability to teach hitting than for reasons of scandal, of course I don't have a problem with Manny the hitting coach even without a 'drastic turnaround' in his life.

 

Really though, this seems emblematic of a strange characterization of Manny I've noticed here. I get it in part, I don't have any moral outrage to PED use, and w/r/t team chemistry I'm heavily on the side of getting talented players and letting a manager worry about juggling personalities. But at the same time, there's a difference in getting a guy to play on your team and entrusting a guy to teach hitting to a team. The downsides to Manny's eccentricities and past improprieties are quite real as a coach, and that's why you see Theo repeating them when talking about Manny. Is he going overboard with it? Maybe, I don't know player Manny or coach Manny, the quotes I've seen from Manny seem to indicate that he's welcoming/encouraging that characterization, and I've seen people have turnarounds in behavior before, so I don't really doubt it. I don't blame you for being skeptical, but it's not really something worth getting worked up at Theo over. It's not the same old PED/Chemistry lip service as it applies to players on the roster.

 

I'm literally "worked up" to the degree of difficulty it takes to type these posts. I'm just annoyed at the Cubs either avoiding or effectively taking shots at someone like Sosa, or feeling like they repeatedly need to justify not just the job they've given him but seemingly the existence of of Manny within the presence of their precious, apparently insanely malleable prospects. It's just catering to meatball nonsense that worries over things like Manny Ramirez somehow poisoning the players around him with his...what? Seriously, the vast majority of "Manny being Manny" was just him being odd or flat out having a good time. The number of things you can point to or even argue as being "bad" in his career you can count on one hand.

 

Pro athletes tend to be weird or jerks or combinations of both. Manny seems to fall WAY to the former, but how much of it is anything that he needs to feel bad for or turn his life around over? What should people legitimately have been worried about along the lines that Theo seems to be trying to explain? The PED thing is the huge red flag, but again, I'd rather they handled it like the Cardinals and largely just approached it like, "this is a thing we're doing because we want to." Yeah, talking to the press is a big part of Theo's job, but he could be a lot less wishy-washy about it.

[Sammy Sofa]

And yes, I fully recognize that this is largely colored by me not liking Theo (which isn't to say he's not super smart about baseball. I just find him really annoying and smarmy. I love the hiring of Manny, but I've hated nearly everything Theo has said about it/him).

[Cubswin11]

I guess I don't get Mojo's annoyance. He's totally pandering to meatballs, but he's a team President, that's a big part of his job.

Yeah, those meatballs make up the vast majority of fans/paying customer of his team. So he kinda has to put on the PR show for them. He can't pander to the baseball savants of this board, it's not what's best for business.

[Sammy Sofa]

I guess I don't get Mojo's annoyance. He's totally pandering to meatballs, but he's a team President, that's a big part of his job.

Yeah, those meatballs make up the vast majority of fans/paying customer of his team. So he kinda has to put on the PR show for them. He can't pander to the baseball savants of this board, it's not what's best for business.

 

Yeah, but how many of those meatballs even know who the Cubs minor league hitting coaches are at any given moment? Sure, Manny is a [expletive] load more famous, but I doubt it's a thing the average fan is really worried about or even aware of. And if he HAD effectively said something like, "Manny and I have a great relationship going back a while and he's a fantastic hitter who can teach a lot" how is it going to harm anything? What, people aren't going to buy as many tickets if he doesn't talk about Manny like he's an ex-meth head?

 

It's just gross. I don't imagine they'd "have to" to say something similar if they (stupidly) brought Grace back in some capacity.

[jersey cubs fan]

I guess I don't get Mojo's annoyance. He's totally pandering to meatballs, but he's a team President, that's a big part of his job.

 

I get needing to explain when he was hired, but what in the holy hell is he going on about turnings lives around months after he was hired and seemingly did a good job that nobody has complained about?

 

There's not some simmering level of disgust and anger about Manny maybe being a minor league assistant hitting coach. He's not in charge of making sure Bryant is a stud. He's one of several coaches in the system and there have been plenty of positive reviews. So why does he feel the need to make the world think Theo dragged this bum out of a corner pub when he only had $37 left to his name?

[Felix Leiter]

I do think Theo goes a little over the top with his Manny praise, but many Cub fans have short term memories. Sammy never tried to stop a ball with his backside or pull any of the antics that Manny got away with on the field in his career. Sammy gave us a lot of 155+ game seasons and plenty of good memories. The sooner the Cubs have a day for him, welcome him back and we can move forward with our current dreamboys, the better off all of us will be. I'm all for giving people a second chance and if Manny can help the team, then fine.

[SouthSideRyan]

I guess I don't get Mojo's annoyance. He's totally pandering to meatballs, but he's a team President, that's a big part of his job.

Yeah, those meatballs make up the vast majority of fans/paying customer of his team. So he kinda has to put on the PR show for them. He can't pander to the baseball savants of this board, it's not what's best for business.

 

Yeah, but how many of those meatballs even know who the Cubs minor league hitting coaches are at any given moment? Sure, Manny is a [expletive] load more famous, but I doubt it's a thing the average fan is really worried about or even aware of. And if he HAD effectively said something like, "Manny and I have a great relationship going back a while and he's a fantastic hitter who can teach a lot" how is it going to harm anything? What, people aren't going to buy as many tickets if he doesn't talk about Manny like he's an ex-meth head?

 

It's just gross. I don't imagine they'd "have to" to say something similar if they (stupidly) brought Grace back in some capacity.

 

Then your issue is with your run of the mill dumbass Cub fan.

[jersey cubs fan]

I do think Theo goes a little over the top with his Manny praise, but many Cub fans have short term memories. Sammy never tried to stop a ball with his backside or pull any of the antics that Manny got away with on the field in his career. Sammy gave us a lot of 155+ game seasons and plenty of good memories. The sooner the Cubs have a day for him, welcome him back and we can move forward with our current dreamboys, the better off all of us will be. I'm all for giving people a second chance and if Manny can help the team, then fine.

 

If anything this over the top response to the Manny situation sets the Cubs up for not thawing their hatred of Sammy. They've set the bar at "guy needs to jump through hoops and turn his life around in order to get back on our good side". That should be disconcerting for anybody who wants to see Sammy somewhere that acknowledges the fact that he played for the Cubs and was very good.

[Sammy Sofa]

Then your issue is with your run of the mill dumbass Cub fan.

 

Sure, but you only have to pander to them to a point. Talking about Manny in such a way when he's not an issue and months after the fact of him being hired just feels like trying WAY too hard to kiss their asses.

 

Maybe it's just the timing, but this and the whole "that's so Cub" thing coming out at the same time just feel really lowest common denominator, even by the usual low sports press standards.

[Sammy Sofa]

I do think Theo goes a little over the top with his Manny praise, but many Cub fans have short term memories. Sammy never tried to stop a ball with his backside or pull any of the antics that Manny got away with on the field in his career.

 

What did he "get away with on the field?" Seriously, what are these terrible things that people would be worried he's going to teach to younger players? "Hey kids, hilariously cutting off a throw from the outfield with an epic dive or high fiving a fan or taking a whiz behind the Green Monster should be the cornerstones of your career."

[Guest]

Then your issue is with your run of the mill dumbass Cub fan.

 

Sure, but you only have to pander to them to a point. Talking about Manny in such a way when he's not an issue and months after the fact of him being hired just feels like trying WAY too hard to kiss their asses.

 

Maybe it's just the timing, but this and the whole "that's so Cub" thing coming out at the same time just feel really lowest common denominator, even by the usual low sports press standards.

 

Both of these things were said at a season ticket holder event, not technically the press. It doesn't get much more meatbally than an STH base. They're the worst kinds, too, because they actually think they are really knowledgeable.

[Sammy Sofa]

Then your issue is with your run of the mill dumbass Cub fan.

 

Sure, but you only have to pander to them to a point. Talking about Manny in such a way when he's not an issue and months after the fact of him being hired just feels like trying WAY too hard to kiss their asses.

 

Maybe it's just the timing, but this and the whole "that's so Cub" thing coming out at the same time just feel really lowest common denominator, even by the usual low sports press standards.

 

Both of these things were said at a season ticket holder event, not technically the press. It doesn't get much more meatbally than an STH base. They're the worst kinds, too, because they actually think they are really knowledgeable.

 

That's a good point. Ah well. The Network-style meltdown will have to sadly wait another day.