College Football - Bowl Games

[Guest]

There's enough bias against defensive guys for the Heisman and against ND in many media pockets that Te'o isn't going to finish higher than 2nd.

Holy crap - it's one thing to say that the positive bias that used to be out there for ND has withered away. I'll largely agree with that sentiment.

 

But to say that the media is biased against ND is beyond ludicrous. I know you say "pockets". But there are "pockets" of the media that are biased in ND's favor, as well. To use that as a reason why Te'o won't win is incredible.

 

Find examples of the pro-ND media bias among voters for any cfb related awards or rankings. Go ahead.

You're quite funny with this thing in that you actually seem to believe what you're saying.

[Tracer Bullet]

There's enough bias against defensive guys for the Heisman and against ND in many media pockets that Te'o isn't going to finish higher than 2nd.

Holy crap - it's one thing to say that the positive bias that used to be out there for ND has withered away. I'll largely agree with that sentiment.

 

But to say that the media is biased against ND is beyond ludicrous. I know you say "pockets". But there are "pockets" of the media that are biased in ND's favor, as well. To use that as a reason why Te'o won't win is incredible.

 

Find examples of the pro-ND media bias among voters for any cfb related awards or rankings. Go ahead.

You're quite funny with this thing in that you actually seem to believe what you're saying.

 

I'll take that as "I can't find any so I'll just stick with my opinion and call it fact."

[Banedon]

Heisman Trophy Winners by School

 

Notre Dame: 7

Ohio State: 7 (Note: Though Ohio State has won seven trophies, the school has just six winners, as Archie Griffin won the award twice)

USC: 7

Oklahoma: 5

Army: 3

Florida: 3

Michigan: 3

Nebraska: 3

Auburn: 3

[Guest]

Heisman Trophy Winners by School

 

Notre Dame: 7

Ohio State: 7 (Note: Though Ohio State has won seven trophies, the school has just six winners, as Archie Griffin won the award twice)

USC: 7

Oklahoma: 5

Army: 3

Florida: 3

Michigan: 3

Nebraska: 3

Auburn: 3

 

USC is down to 6. Speaking of integrity and the Heisman, Reggie Bush sure is a shining example.

[Tracer Bullet]

Heisman Trophy Winners by School

 

Notre Dame: 7

Ohio State: 7 (Note: Though Ohio State has won seven trophies, the school has just six winners, as Archie Griffin won the award twice)

USC: 7

Oklahoma: 5

Army: 3

Florida: 3

Michigan: 3

Nebraska: 3

Auburn: 3

 

Winners by school in the last 24 years.

 

ND: 0

 

I've never disputed that there was an ND bias. It's long since swung the other way. Holding on to this belief as if we're stuck in the 70s when very few teams traveled as much as ND with the amount of success and popularity of ND is foolish to put it gently.

[Guest]

There's enough bias against defensive guys for the Heisman and against ND in many media pockets that Te'o isn't going to finish higher than 2nd.

Holy crap - it's one thing to say that the positive bias that used to be out there for ND has withered away. I'll largely agree with that sentiment.

 

But to say that the media is biased against ND is beyond ludicrous. I know you say "pockets". But there are "pockets" of the media that are biased in ND's favor, as well. To use that as a reason why Te'o won't win is incredible.

 

Find examples of the pro-ND media bias among voters for any cfb related awards or rankings. Go ahead.

You're quite funny with this thing in that you actually seem to believe what you're saying.

 

I'll take that as "I can't find any so I'll just stick with my opinion and call it fact."

You should probably take that as "if I'm going to take the time away from work to document something, it would be my prospect summaries for Vogelbach and Vizcaino".

 

You must not spend much time in the Chicago area if you don't think there are portions of the media biased towards ND.

 

--------

 

ETA - ever listen to Mike + Mike? Lou Holtz? ESPN in general?

[Andy]

When did they start only inviting 3 to NYC? I'm kind of disappointed none of the top Pac-12 running backs (Kenjon Barner, Stepfan Taylor or Johnathan Franklin) have a chance at jumping Klein into 3rd.

 

ETA: Forgot Marqise Lee too, who had a hell of a season.

They invite a certain amount between 3 and 5 based on vote totals. All projections have a huge drop-off from Klein (3rd place) to Lee (4th) this season.

[treebird]

omg i hate EVERYONE'S favorite team now.

 

all of your favorite players suck.

 

a thousand times this.

 

also, it's becoming more and more apparent to me that, at its heart, college football is terrible. i know that every team and sport has bad fans, but jesus christ look at the people who like college football more than anyone else: these are like the worst people in the america!

[Andy]

For Raisin and anyone else curious, StiffArmTrophy.com does a projection every year based on any amount of ballots made public they can find. They're up to 70 ballots right now and after the finalists, the most ballots anyone is listed on is 8 for Marqise Lee. Montee Ball perplexingly got a 1st-place vote from somebody and Barner hasn't been listed on any ballots yet.

[Guest]

When did they start only inviting 3 to NYC? I'm kind of disappointed none of the top Pac-12 running backs (Kenjon Barner, Stepfan Taylor or Johnathan Franklin) have a chance at jumping Klein into 3rd.

 

ETA: Forgot Marqise Lee too, who had a hell of a season.

They invite a certain amount between 3 and 5 based on vote totals. All projections have a huge drop-off from Klein (3rd place) to Lee (4th) this season.

 

Gotcha. It just seems like a nice honor and opportunity for 4th and 5th even if they had no chance in hell.

[Old Style]

Montee Ball plays with integrity. He should win.

[SouthSideRyan]

You must not spend much time in the Chicago area if you don't think there are portions of the media biased towards ND.

?

 

Well that's a silly example. Chicago has a large Notre Dame fanbase.

[Guest]

You must not spend much time in the Chicago area if you don't think there are portions of the media biased towards ND.

?

 

Well that's a silly example. Chicago has a large Notre Dame fanbase.

It's not silly when he's explicitly denying the existence of ANY pro-ND pocket of the media.

[SouthSideRyan]

Don't get me started on the South Bend media!

[Tracer Bullet]

You must not spend much time in the Chicago area if you don't think there are portions of the media biased towards ND.

?

 

Well that's a silly example. Chicago has a large Notre Dame fanbase.

It's not silly when he's explicitly denying the existence of ANY pro-ND pocket of the media.

 

You are now making things up.

 

Holtz is a great example. So clearly biased for ND. But he is made to play a foolish character to contradict the stupidity that Mays is made to play. Literally no one is influenced to support ND by the character that Holtz portrays. He has a significantly more negative effect on the public perception of ND than any positive influence.

 

Have you watched CGD before ND became #1? Early this year, the ND story looked like something you'd play at a wake. Herbstreit said ND had a defense worse than some high schools within the last couple of years. Desmond Howard is not surprisingly blatantly biased against ND. The whole crew openly mocked ND when they were on its campus.

 

As for Chicago media, the commuter (Hamilton) hates the very team he covers. David Haugh attacks ND regularly. Sure there are some pro-ND media folks in Chicago, there are also anti-ND media folks there.

[Guest]

You must not spend much time in the Chicago area if you don't think there are portions of the media biased towards ND.

?

 

Well that's a silly example. Chicago has a large Notre Dame fanbase.

It's not silly when he's explicitly denying the existence of ANY pro-ND pocket of the media.

 

You are now making things up.

 

Holtz is a great example. So clearly biased for ND. But he is made to play a foolish character to contradict the stupidity that Mays is made to play. Literally no one is influenced to support ND by the character that Holtz portrays. He has a significantly more negative effect on the public perception of ND than any positive influence.

 

Have you watched CGD before ND became #1? Early this year, the ND story looked like something you'd play at a wake. Herbstreit said ND had a defense worse than some high schools within the last couple of years. Desmond Howard is not surprisingly blatantly biased against ND. The whole crew openly mocked ND when they were on its campus.

 

As for Chicago media, the commuter (Hamilton) hates the very team he covers. David Haugh attacks ND regularly. Sure there are some pro-ND media folks in Chicago, there are also anti-ND media folks there.

Which was my point to begin with! You said that the anti-ND sentiments within pockets of the media would help keep Te'o from winning the heisman. Which I said was ridicilous since there is at least as much pro-ND sentiment out there in the media. You then challenged me to find ANY trace of pro-ND bias out there.

 

Thanks for admitting as much. I think we're done here.

[Tracer Bullet]

I did challenge you and you've failed (not without being smug and condescending!). The point wasn't to show that there isn't any pro-ND media it was that you'd point to Chicago and espn bc you wrongly think they're pro-ND.

 

Mariotti, btw, so biased for ND that he voted for Manziel, wrote a column in which he felates him, and didn't put Te'o on the ballot.

 

Mike Imrem wrote a nice piece on Te'o and ND. Demanding what they don't deserve and claiming with no basis that ND gets media hype and that Te'o isn't the best defensive player in the country or even his own team.

 

ND needs less of the pro-ND Chicago bias.

[KingCubsFan]

You said that the anti-ND sentiments within pockets of the media would help keep Te'o from winning the heisman. Which I said was ridicilous since there is at least as much pro-ND sentiment out there in the media.

This is completely wrong. There is much more anti-ND bias in the media, and I do think it will impact Te'o's chances at the Heisman (not nearly as much as the fact that he's not a QB). heck, the only guy that Mariner could name (and he was trying to help you out) that was bias towards ND was someone who has a statue outside the stadium.

[Formerly Snayke]

If only there was some sort of poll that would tell us what the people who cover college football think of Notre Dame.

[Tracer Bullet]

If only there was some sort of poll that would tell us what the people who cover college football think of Notre Dame.

 

Oh dear lord.

[Formerly Snayke]

If only there was some sort of poll that would tell us what the people who cover college football think of Notre Dame.

 

Oh dear lord.

 

Nah, you're right. Also, too, Sagarin is anti-ND.

[Tracer Bullet]

If only there was some sort of poll that would tell us what the people who cover college football think of Notre Dame.

 

Oh dear lord.

 

Nah, you're right. Also, too, Sagarin is anti-ND.

 

If you want to argue, fine, make some actual arguments. But trolling with stupidity like this isn't going to work. The fact that the only undefeated team is ranked #1 tells us nothing about bias.

[Formerly Snayke]

If you want to argue, fine, make some actual arguments. But trolling with stupidity like this isn't going to work. The fact that the only undefeated team is ranked #1 tells us nothing about bias.

 

I didn't really want to argue, but I thought the idea of there being some unnamed anti-ND media contingent was pretty bizarre. Enough people voted for Te'o to make him a Heisman finalist and both the AP and Harris have had ND No. 1 for several weeks. If they wanted to put the screws to ND they did a terrible job of it.

[Tracer Bullet]

If you want to argue, fine, make some actual arguments. But trolling with stupidity like this isn't going to work. The fact that the only undefeated team is ranked #1 tells us nothing about bias.

 

I didn't really want to argue, but I thought the idea of there being some unnamed anti-ND media contingent was pretty bizarre. Enough people voted for Te'o to make him a Heisman finalist and both the AP and Harris have had ND No. 1 for several weeks. If they wanted to put the screws to ND they did a terrible job of it.

 

I've put several names to the contingent. Also ND only became #1 bc every other team lost and some are still voting other teams ahead of them (in some cases, multiple teams). As I said, the fact that the lone undefeated team is #1 isn't evidence of bias or not. It's the default position. If you don't want to substantively discuss something, why make a ridiculous comment at all?

[Illini Iceman]

Heisman Trophy Winners by School

 

Notre Dame: 7

Ohio State: 7 (Note: Though Ohio State has won seven trophies, the school has just six winners, as Archie Griffin won the award twice)

USC: 7

Oklahoma: 5

Army: 3

Florida: 3

Michigan: 3

Nebraska: 3

Auburn: 3

 

Winners by school in the last 24 years.

 

ND: 0

 

I've never disputed that there was an ND bias. It's long since swung the other way. Holding on to this belief as if we're stuck in the 70s when very few teams traveled as much as ND with the amount of success and popularity of ND is foolish to put it gently.

 

I feel your pain, Illinois also has none in the last 24 year and I personally am sick of the haters holding us down.