Re: Minor League Discussion & Boxes 8-2-12

[El Duderino]

oh, I think I know who it is. He is on Boise.

[davell]

Toonster, I was kidding about you pulling against him. By the way, I said close to double digit homers, not low double digits. Which is why I can't see Pedroia with him as a great potential comp. And I can now tell the guy you're talking about played ball in our home state.

[rawaction]

Maybe a better question is....how does Torreyes compare to Jose Altuve??

I was hoping no one would ever bring him up, so not to jinx it. But that's exactly what I see Torreyes becoming, minus a little speed.

 

I've been avoiding this comp for another player in the Cubs system, and you won't get me to type it out (at least, I doubt I'll type it out at any point this year) ... but the positive scenario you guys are hoping for with Torreyes is to essentially become ... Dustin Pedroia.

 

I see Torreyes with more power than Altuve, but not as much as Pedroia. I think the glut of middle IF prospects that the Cubs have, will allow them to trade Barney this offseason if a team falls in love with him and is willing to throw a bigger need/good prospect the Cubs way. If they can fill 3B, they can get by with a Valbuena/Baker platoon until someone like Torreyes, Watkins, Alcantara, etc. make it to the bigs.

 

More of a side note, but I still think that Barney can play short in the bigs, at least, decently for a few years. I wonder if a team will take the chance on trying him there. Problem is, they need to see him play some short to consider it, and that's just not happening here unless Castro gets hurt.

 

No question in my mind that Barney can play SS. I would go as far as to say he'd be a top defensive SS in the league. But yeah, I'd imagine he's pretty pigeonholed into 2B, probably for the rest of his career.

[toonsterwu]

Toonster, I was kidding about you pulling against him. By the way, I said close to double digit homers, not low double digits. Which is why I can't see Pedroia with him as a great potential comp. And I can now tell the guy you're talking about played ball in our home state.

 

oh hey, I know you were kidding. I edited my post to note that it's a fair jab at me. And now that I read it again, yes, you did say close to double digit homers, so that is completely different, so ... waste of a few posts discussing Pedroia comps.

 

davell, it's not my home state. I lived in it for two years, I got a Terry Kirby signature somewhere (some dental competition ... well not really ... some draw a picture of a smiling face with good teeth competition ... I guess Terry Kirby had a good smile and they invited him there for that? Or maybe it was just because he was the big star in Virginia at the time.), but sorry, if I claimed a home state, it would be north of there (decade plus in New York, most of my life in Maryland).

Edited August 3, 2012 by toonsterwu

[davell]

Oh, and seeing your edit, I think it's great your objective. In no way would I construe that as rooting against any of these guys whatsoever.

[toonsterwu]

 

No question in my mind that Barney can play SS. I would go as far as to say he'd be a top defensive SS in the league. But yeah, I'd imagine he's pretty pigeonholed into 2B, probably for the rest of his career.

 

I would never wish injury on anyone, but ... it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if Castro had to take a few weeks off in September and Barney was playing shortstop.

[davell]

Toonster, I was kidding about you pulling against him. By the way, I said close to double digit homers, not low double digits. Which is why I can't see Pedroia with him as a great potential comp. And I can now tell the guy you're talking about played ball in our home state.

 

oh hey, I know you were kidding. I edited my post to note that it's a fair jab at me. And now that I read it again, yes, you did say close to double digit homers, so that is completely different, so ... waste of a few posts discussing Pedroia comps.

 

davell, it's not my home state. I lived in it for two years, I got a Terry Kirby signature somewhere, but sorry, if I claimed a home state, it would be north of there (decade plus in New York, most of my life in Maryland).

Hell, I was born there, live there now, but spent well over half my life in North Carolina.

[davell]

Mentioning Terry Kirby, my wife grew up in Yorktown and lived on a street in Tabb named Terry's Run.....

[El Duderino]

Almora and Soler with doubles in the 3rd.

[toonsterwu]

phew, a 2nd hit for Marco. I'm not some weird offensive jinx on him.

 

Of course, his 2 errors sort of negate the positives. .. but hey, it's the low minors. 90% of the time, all we care about are the offensive numbers, hoping that the defense will work out.

 

____

 

The frustrating thing about Marco and Brett Jackson's season, for me, is that there's been stretches where there's been big positives, or things haven't been that bad. In Brett's case, his K rate didn't sky out of control in April. Now, one could argue that the pitchers got a better book on him as the season went along, but the horrid K rate in June was just ridiculous.

 

In Marco's case, and I still stand by how high I put him last year as it was a judgment on tools, for the last month or so, until this 10 day stretch, it was easy to forget that he had a solid May in Peoria (hittiing .316 in this stretch, with 1 AB to go today). The thing is ... almost all the positives came true for Marco. He looks like he could be a potential plus defensive shorstop. He's shown very good bat speed. He has good range, good running speed. He's shown some pop at times, more than I expected at this stage, to be honest. But ... he just hasn't shown that much discipline. The positive is that he's shown an awareness of his problems. His K rate came down in May in Peoria, and there's been indications that after being very aggressive at the start of the Boise season, he's showing a bit more patience at the plate, waiting on pitches.

[Guest]

25 walks, 23 strikeouts for torreyes

[El Duderino]

25 walks, 23 strikeouts for torreyes

 

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/Al_Bundy_excited.gif

[Guest]

Maybe a better question is....how does Torreyes compare to Jose Altuve??

I was hoping no one would ever bring him up, so not to jinx it. But that's exactly what I see Torreyes becoming, minus a little speed.

 

I've been avoiding this comp for another player in the Cubs system, and you won't get me to type it out (at least, I doubt I'll type it out at any point this year) ... but the positive scenario you guys are hoping for with Torreyes is to essentially become ... Dustin Pedroia.

"You guys are hoping for", so it's official: you're pulling against Torreyes! Sorry man, had to, you left it open......Honestly, I can't see Torreyes developing 20 homer power, which keeps me from hoping for Pedroia. On the other hand, you see someone else in our system as a Pedroia comp? If so, I think it's pretty easy to see. I won't make you type it out, but his name rhymes with papaya.....

 

I'm not pulling against Torreyes, but read what you wrote for Torreyes: in his prime, .300 hitter, 35-40 doubles, low double digit home runs, solid defensive 2nd baseman. That's an elite player. Okay, Pedroia is on the high end of that comparison scale, but Pedroia has only had one year with above a .200 ISOP, with him mostly in that .150 area. Without taking the time to do mock calculations, the numbers you have for Torreyes would get him somewhat close to a .150 ISOP. That's ... All-Star contender each year in his prime. That's ... fringe shot at being a potential HOF type (I think a lot of people (granted, mostly Bostonians) are already suggesting that Pedroia has some HOF potential, but needs to do it for a few more years). There's very few guys (I'm sure there's one or two) that I have ever envisioned as being elite, particularly at this age and level.

 

If that's pulling against Torreyes, fine. I'm not envisioning a positive scenario that high. But ... that's an awfully high bar to set for someone in their prime.

 

Edit: Btw, I'm fully aware you are taking a fair jab at me. I'm aware there are times where it feels like I want a Cubs prospect to fail. That's certainly not the case, but I'm aware that it can come across that way. I just wanted to point out that the numbers you've put up there for Torreyes in his prime are awfully high. Not impossibly high, but it's on the high end, and I just tend to not envision such high end numbers for most prospects, at least not these days (I'm sure there's something online somewhere where I gave some high end expectation for Cubs prospects).

 

Btw, no it's not Amaya. I don't think Amaya will ever be good enough defensively at 2nd. It wouldn't stun me if Amaya ended up in a corner OF role. Give me until the off-season before I decide to be bold and even remotely say I see some similarities. To be clear, if you asked me, do I expect said player to become Dustin Pedroia-ish, I would say, heck no. I'm not crazy. But I see some similarities between the two, I actually thought it would be fairly obvious who I had in mind.

I'll go with Bruno as my guess.

[sneakypower]

25 walks, 23 strikeouts for torreyes

 

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/Al_Bundy_excited.gif

5 of those K's were in the first week of the season, too

 

and he's still listed as the only 19 year-old in the FSL

[El Duderino]

Candelario just took a walk in the bottom of the 9th with the Hawks down 15-1. Want.

 

Vogelbach with his 2nd hit.

[Magnetic Curses]

I'm the polar opposite of Toonster on Torreyes: I think the hit tool is totally legit. I see him as a solid defensive 2B, that can hit .300 in the majors consistently, with 35-40 doubles and close to double digit homers in his prime.

 

i see torreyes as a sure a bet to be a productive major league player as anyone in the system. he may not have the high ceiling as some of the others, but as you've said, his hit tool is too good not to make it and stay for a long time.

[Magnetic Curses]

25 walks, 23 strikeouts for torreyes

 

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/Al_Bundy_excited.gif

5 of those K's were in the first week of the season, too

 

and he's still listed as the only 19 year-old in the FSL

 

looks like his OPS is up to .745 from under .700 a week or two ago.

[Guest]

Rosscup at Peoria and Tennessee - 21.1 IP, 32 K, 10 BB, 3.80 ERA. In his last 3 outings at Tennessee - 11.2 IP, 15 K, 5 BB, 2.31 ERA.

[El Duderino]

Rosscup at Peoria and Tennessee - 21.1 IP, 32 K, 10 BB, 3.80 ERA. In his last 3 outings at Tennessee - 11.2 IP, 15 K, 5 BB, 2.31 ERA.

 

Wow.

[Guest]

Rosscup at Peoria and Tennessee - 21.1 IP, 32 K, 10 BB, 3.80 ERA. In his last 3 outings at Tennessee - 11.2 IP, 15 K, 5 BB, 2.31 ERA.

 

Wow.

 

Including Mesa, 23 IP, 36 K, 10 BB.

[sneakypower]

I'm the polar opposite of Toonster on Torreyes: I think the hit tool is totally legit. I see him as a solid defensive 2B, that can hit .300 in the majors consistently, with 35-40 doubles and close to double digit homers in his prime.

 

i see torreyes as a sure a bet to be a productive major league player as anyone in the system. he may not have the high ceiling as some of the others, but as you've said, his hit tool is too good not to make it and stay for a long time.

if he makes the bigs:

best case - polanco

most likely - fernando vina

worse case - mark lemke

[Outshined_One]

Am I alone in thinking Villanueva would slot in at #4 in our system? Still a bit leery about pitchers coming back from TJS, so I'm thinking Villanueva ahead of Vizcaino makes sense.

[StarlinOnYou]

Vogelbach continues to rake.

 

Hitting over .370 now. The bat certainly seems to be for real.

[El Duderino]

Vogelbach continues to rake.

 

Hitting over .370 now. The bat certainly seems to be for real.

 

Love him. Though it is a bit sad that the realistic best case scenario for the Cubs is that he is a great trade chip.

[davell]

I'm the polar opposite of Toonster on Torreyes: I think the hit tool is totally legit. I see him as a solid defensive 2B, that can hit .300 in the majors consistently, with 35-40 doubles and close to double digit homers in his prime.

 

i see torreyes as a sure a bet to be a productive major league player as anyone in the system. he may not have the high ceiling as some of the others, but as you've said, his hit tool is too good not to make it and stay for a long time.

if he makes the bigs:

best case - polanco

most likely - fernando vina

worse case - mark lemke

What the hell? You just turned on Torreyes! You just blindsided him. He knew you were all in on him and now you just hit him in the head with a steel chair.