Who many years are we going to suck?

[davell]

Surely, there's not a single person here that would rather have Pujols or Fielder, with the contracts they just signed, than Rizzo, at this point? Right?

[toonsterwu]

Surely, there's not a single person here that would rather have Pujols or Fielder, with the contracts they just signed, than Rizzo, at this point? Right?

 

Fully recognizing that this could be a case of me being difficult ... but I can't answer that. Now, I was never that supportive of giving Pujols a deal, but I was supporting of giving one to Fielder. (to be clear, I'm pretty certain that I argued that I was perfectly fine with giving neither a deal, as I didn't think it was the right time to, just saying between Fielder and Pujols, I preferred giving Fielder a big deal).

 

But this isn't a question of just Fielder and Rizzo. There's a myriad of dynamics at play, but getting to the main point - There's also the Cashner component to this in that, if we had signed Fielder, what would we have done with Cashner? Maybe we dealt him off to get another prime piece, and maybe said prime piece was playing well.

 

I mean, if you are just comparing Fielder and Rizzo alone, then yes, you take Rizzo, on his salary, over Fielder.

Edited August 3, 2012 by toonsterwu

[questionmarkgrace]

3-5 years? that would mean things went terribly wrong

 

no not necessarily. I think there are major questions at pitching and offense going forward.

 

We can all agree that trading Garza this off season is very likely. Chances are who ever we get will not be ready to dominate at the major league level right away and they may even be a full year away from the majors. Whatever the case is you cant just expect any pitcher we get to be ready right away. Vizcaino is two years away from making an impact at the major league level, both the guys we got for dempster are at least two years from the majors. From there we are looking at a rotation next year of Samardzija, Wood, Germano, ?, ?. Its not like we have any pitchers lighting the world on fire in AA or AAA. I could see Whitenack making the rotation next year but hes been pretty hit and miss so far this year after tjs.

 

There are also big questions about who can replace soriano's production, who plays third, Lahair seems to be a one year wonder. There are certainly questions here about the offense.

 

Plus, Theo has come out and said several times that he will not just go spend money to spend it. I expect this off season to mirror last years. Maybe another Maholm type move next year in order to stock pile prospects and a buy low on an Ian Stewart type. So, I dont see how next years team becomes a contender a year later. You would need some prospects in low a to make major jumps and then dominate at the major league level immediately or to spend a pile of money. Both of which seem unlikely.

[dew1679666265]

I think going into this offseason with the specific intent of trying to build a team that will contend in 2013 is a mistake because there's a good chance it leads to overpaying somebody we shouldn't (like an Anibal Sanchez). What I think the goal this offseason should be is to make incremental improvements with an eye on contention by 2014.

 

Find value buys or potential value buys like Upton, Liriano, maybe Sanchez (if injuries scare teams away), etc, who are more than just placeholders and can help for more than just next year. Retain guys like Garza, Russell, DeJesus/Soriano (definitely one, maybe both), unless you get a great offer for them, and then fill out the rest of the holes with guys from the minors (probably Vitters, BJax, and a pitcher or two). That way we're continuing to develop a core, while also adding some pieces that can help us possibly contend in 2013 and certainly contend beyond that, but we're not adding anything that's likely to hurt us in the future.

[davell]

My personal hope for our offseason would be this: Trade Garza for Hutchison and Syndergaard. Trade Brett and Vogelbach for Delgado. Sign Saunders to no more than a 2 year deal. Sign Upton to a 1 or 2 year deal. Sign Ervin Santana. Add a few bullpen pieces. Lineup of DeJesus, Castro, Rizzo, Soriano, Upton, Vitters, Castillo, and Barney. Rotation of Shark, Saunders, Delgado, Hutchison, and either Santana or Wood. You're developing some kids, probably losing enough to warrant a high pick again, but probably filling quite a few longterm pieces, to where you can add much easier in 2014 and contend at that point.

[Guest]

My personal hope for our offseason would be this: Trade Garza for Hutchison and Syndergaard. Trade Brett and Vogelbach for Delgado. Sign Saunders to no more than a 2 year deal. Sign Upton to a 1 or 2 year deal. Sign Ervin Santana. Add a few bullpen pieces. Lineup of DeJesus, Castro, Rizzo, Soriano, Upton, Vitters, Castillo, and Barney. Rotation of Shark, Saunders, Delgado, Hutchison, and either Santana or Wood. You're developing some kids, probably losing enough to warrant a high pick again, but probably filling quite a few longterm pieces, to where you can add much easier in 2014 and contend at that point.

 

Upton only getting 1 or 2 years?

[davell]

With the season he's having, I actually think he'd prefer it that way. Maybe give him a year with a player option attached to it.