Minor League Discussion & Boxes 8-1-12

[Little Slide Rooter]

@SappySappelt6: Shocker another awful game #PCLisforthebirds

 

Sounds like Sappelt's a few steps away from going all Chris Carpenter on us.

[El Duderino]

I just hope Vogelbach hits like crazy in the minors to where the Cubs can trade him to some AL team. I really don't see a future for him on the Cubs if Rizzo is everything people want him to be.

 

nonsense. hope like crazy the nl gets DH

 

Well there is always that I suppose.

 

Could Vogelsbach really be any worse of an OF than Adam Dunn was for all those years?

 

Yes. do you remember the reds experiment with Yonder Alonso?

[Guest]

Lest we forget the stories that Brett Jackson's K-rate spiked his junior year at Cal because he felt pressure of being watched by scouts and wanting to be drafted high.

I think I actually take that as an argument FOR me, right? Since he started performing better afterward again?

 

Not really, if part of his struggles is linked to the pressure of being close to the big leagues. He will be facing extremely talented pitchers in the big leagues, much more talented than at AAA.

[davell]

Well, damnit, I like Brett and will continue to convince myself Sveum will fix him. Even if others points make sense.

[ctcf]

Well, damnit, I like Brett and will continue to convince myself Sveum will fix him. Even if others points make sense.

 

Well I imagine it'd be better for them to work with Brett than the AAA coaches.

[Guest]

I just hope Vogelbach hits like crazy in the minors to where the Cubs can trade him to some AL team. I really don't see a future for him on the Cubs if Rizzo is everything people want him to be.

 

nonsense. hope like crazy the nl gets DH

 

Well there is always that I suppose.

 

Could Vogelsbach really be any worse of an OF than Adam Dunn was for all those years?

 

stop saying vogelsbach

[Guest]

@SappySappelt6: Shocker another awful game #PCLisforthebirds

 

yes dave, you did have an awful game.

 

it was actually a good game for cubs organization. the players who actually matter did well.

[ctcf]

Bill Mitchell ‏@billazbbphotog

Jorge Soler with a steal of home for AZL #Cubs. Pitcher tried a pick off to 1st and Soler took off from 3rd.

 

Awesome

[Cubswin11]

I have a feeling Brett Jackson strikeout rates are going to bring back memories of 2004 Corey Patterson when he sees major league pitchers who can locate breaking pitches in the zone. Vitters, dunno. He might struggle initially but he should have plenty of rope considering he's 22 years old in the majors. Everyone keeps insisting he's getting traded in the offseason, but for the life of me I don't know why. It's not like the Cubs have any other in house alternatives at 3B for the next 2 years. They might as well ride out Vitters until his progress plateaus and he hits a ceiling. To trade him just for the sake of trading him because he's not your particular favorite flavor of icecream is pretty Hendry-esque.

 

He'll strike out a lot, but it's clear playing in AAA isn't helping that. He's nearing his 24th birthday and the point where he won't be considered much of a prospect anymore. It's time to try something new, and I think that something is new hitting coaches.

 

Also, with our new FO, you never know who could be traded. Someone made the comparisons to Colvin. Vitters could be moved for pitching, which we also need a lot of.

We also need a 3B. There are potential ones outside of Vitters, in Candelario, Baez, Lake and Villanueva but Vitters is the closest to being ML ready and there is a clear need for a 3B on the major league roster right now.

[El Duderino]

I wonder what we'd have to give up for Headley.

[Clem Fandango]

I wonder what we'd have to give up for Headley.

 

How high up are we on the waiver wire? Would there be a chance he falls to us?

[El Duderino]

I wonder what we'd have to give up for Headley.

 

How high up are we on the waiver wire? Would there be a chance he falls to us?

 

No idea. Was talking about an off-season trade.

[Clem Fandango]

I wonder what we'd have to give up for Headley.

 

How high up are we on the waiver wire? Would there be a chance he falls to us?

 

No idea. Was talking about an off-season trade.

 

Ahh, gotcha.

[XZero771679666304]

I don't know what the exact asking price for Headley was, but it was reportedly outrageous.

[El Duderino]

Albert Almora hit by pitch.

 

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[toonsterwu]

I wonder what we'd have to give up for Headley.

 

A boatload. Even if Byrnes is close to this front office, I just don't see it. I think they are going to want power arms, and we don't have many to begin with. If they look positionally, it wouldn't surprise me if Brett Jackson intrigued them (for the same reasons that our own FO may be intrigued with Brett), but it would obviously take more than Brett to land Headley.

 

I am a big Headley fan. People seem to forget that he had good raw power, and that he adjusted his swing for the environment. I am not a huge Vitters guy, but acknowledge that he has improved (although I have always defended his ability to be passable (by no means does this mean average ... more below average but not horrendous) defensively for a couple years if the bat played). That said, for what it might cost to land Headley, I'd rather see Vitters for a year, or see if Stewart can heal.

[toonsterwu]

So what is everyone's opinion on bringing up Brett and Vitters? My view is probably the exact opposite of everyone elses. But, for me, I'm in favor of bringing Brett up, but not Vitters. My hope is Brett has been pressing all season, trying to do too much. Bringing him up could actually take the weight off his shoulders and allow him to have fun again. Vitters has struggled every time he's been promoted during the middle of a season. Yeah, I want to see him in the majors this year, but bring him up after Iowa's season is over. That said, most of the articles I read made it sound to me like it could happen any day. And don't get me wrong, it'd definitely make things very interesting over the last two months.

 

Most of the articles seem to suggest that they are contemplating Brett up soon, and fundamenally, I'm apt to agree with your thinking and what it seems like the Cubs FO is debating, and that is, will a change of scenery help him out? A demotion is pointless now, considering his age and the fact that he's been okay in AAA, but it almost seems like a poor idea to let him keep digging away at AAA. I almost feel like you either call him up, or you perhaps shut him down and send him to Arizona to work on trying to make the swing ... for lack of a better term right now ... smoother.

 

With Vitters, I think you want him getting everyday PT to work on his defense at 3rd, and I don't think you want him up at the bigs on a trial basis for that right now. You can trial him in September, a month for now, but I think you keep him in the minors for now and get him work, so I guess I am agrreeing again.

[toonsterwu]

release lahair

 

I don't see a point of this. He's a nice platoon option. You can find a use for a cheap guy like that, or another team might. Now, there's no more dreaming of a big trade, but maybe some team offers you a low A gamble this offseason, when teams can sit back and take a deeper breath to assess their needs and assess how guys can fit. If you can get some sort of gamble for LaHair, why not? And maybe they decide, hey, let's keep him around as a cheap bench bat, rather than wasting money on a FA bench bat (if they felt a need to add one).

[toonsterwu]

I have a feeling Brett Jackson strikeout rates are going to bring back memories of 2004 Corey Patterson when he sees major league pitchers who can locate breaking pitches in the zone. Vitters, dunno. He might struggle initially but he should have plenty of rope considering he's 22 years old in the majors. Everyone keeps insisting he's getting traded in the offseason, but for the life of me I don't know why. It's not like the Cubs have any other in house alternatives at 3B for the next 2 years. They might as well ride out Vitters until his progress plateaus and he hits a ceiling. To trade him just for the sake of trading him because he's not your particular favorite flavor of icecream is pretty Hendry-esque.

 

You know, I think the idea that it's breaking balls that are giving him problems has been overstated. In short, he's basically had a crap of a season so almost everything is giving him problems, but I think the arguments that the BA staff has been putting out is probably the best answer out there for why his issues have been that exacerbated, and that's basically that his swing is too mechanical now, and since he's too disciplined, he'll get into deep counts, but then end up chasing borderline pitches that he needs to swing at to protect, but can't get to because his swing is off. I mean, it seems like he's missing on fastballs quite a bit these days as well, and his bat speed hasn't exactly died.

 

Keep in mind a distinct difference between Corey Patterson and Brett Jackson is that Corey was a hacker. I defended him a bit, but he was a hacker. Brett's aggressive, but he's got a far better eye, light years better, than Corey did. If Corey had Brett's eye and discipline, the story of his career might've been dramatically different.

 

______

 

On Vitters - I think people are mildly curious why the Cubs placed a high emphasis on find a young 3rd baseman, and hence why there's some suggestion that he could be moved. When you factor in that the most optimistic defender of Vitters defensive ability could only argue that he might be average at 3rd, and I think that's why a lot of people wonder. I wouldn't be stunned if they moved him if the right deal came along. That said, if I had to take a guess now, I think a more likely scenario is that IF the Cubs don't like him at 3rd (and they very well could opt to give him a look there), they might ponder him in LF again.

[toonsterwu]

I just hope Vogelbach hits like crazy in the minors to where the Cubs can trade him to some AL team. I really don't see a future for him on the Cubs if Rizzo is everything people want him to be.

 

There's really no need to be concerned about that. Rizzo's clock has started, and Vogelbach is only in Boise. A decently positive case scenario puts him in AA in say late 2014, and he might be there in 2015. I understand your point, but a lot can happen in 3-4 years.

[toonsterwu]

I just hope Vogelbach hits like crazy in the minors to where the Cubs can trade him to some AL team. I really don't see a future for him on the Cubs if Rizzo is everything people want him to be.

 

nonsense. hope like crazy the nl gets DH

 

On a personal note, I would hate it if the NL added the DH. I like the DH, but I like it the way things are.

[toonsterwu]

So what is everyone's opinion on bringing up Brett and Vitters? My view is probably the exact opposite of everyone elses. But, for me, I'm in favor of bringing Brett up, but not Vitters. My hope is Brett has been pressing all season, trying to do too much. Bringing him up could actually take the weight off his shoulders and allow him to have fun again. Vitters has struggled every time he's been promoted during the middle of a season. Yeah, I want to see him in the majors this year, but bring him up after Iowa's season is over. That said, most of the articles I read made it sound to me like it could happen any day. And don't get me wrong, it'd definitely make things very interesting over the last two months.

 

I don't know how bringing Jackson up will make him feel less pressure.

 

I'm not sure if pressure is the issue, but it's conceivable that a prospect could feel pressure to make it up, and once they do, they might relax a bit and play more to their natural abilities.

[toonsterwu]

Lest we forget the stories that Brett Jackson's K-rate spiked his junior year at Cal because he felt pressure of being watched by scouts and wanting to be drafted high.

 

Heck, weren't there stories last year that that's why he struggled when he got the initial call to AAA? That he felt pressure from the fact that Fleita (or someone else) was there watching?

[toonsterwu]

Some dimestore psychology, on my part. But he's laid back for the most part and I think he figured him and Rizzo were probably arriving together. Rizzo killed it, came up, and Brett has steadily regressed. Maybe moreso after that happened. No clue, but I'd like to see some numbers, if anyone can find them. But yeah, I DO think bringing him up, giving him the rest of the year to see big league pitching and have Sveum and Rawson work with him everyday would ease things for him somewhat.

 

I'm too busy to work out all the numbers or go through detailed game longs, but on fangraphs, he's had 34 games where he had a O'fer on the hit column. 8 were in July, 9 were in June, 10 in May, 7 in April (granted, 1 May, 2 June, 1 July were pinch hit appearances, I assume (1 AB)).

 

The funny thing about Brett's year is that his best monthly line was in June, .282/.350/.545. Of course, he also struck out 40.7% of the time in June, and his line was propped up by a .463 BABIP. He actually wasn't terrible with the K's in the first month (26.7%). Both May and July, the K%, according to first inning, was around 33.

[toonsterwu]

@SappySappelt6: Shocker another awful game #PCLisforthebirds

 

Sounds like Sappelt's a few steps away from going all Chris Carpenter on us.

 

As a side note, he was actually red hot in July, with a BABIP closer to what he had last year (albeit, higher than any monthly BABIP he had last year).

 

He's on that Sam Fuld level, IMO, a potentially useful backup if the right opportunity presented himself. I know someone here was really high on him, but I never really saw it, personally. But a Sam Fuld type has use - look at how he helped the Rays in stretches this year and last year.