Dempster: Retain, or trade?

[sneakypower]

WAR = be all, end all? Are they trading for his 5 years?

is this a serious question? of course teams value a player based on what he has done

 

i imagine the Red Sox looking into a magical snowglobe and seeing all that John Lackey was going to do for them and saying "yup, that is worth $82.5 million to us"

[mookie]

Obviously he should be traded to Toronto because he is Canadian.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Yeah, that Soto is really trending in the wrong direction.

 

Psh I'd trade him for a bucket o' balls, amirite?

[mookie]

WAR = be all, end all? Are they trading for his 5 years?

is this a serious question? of course teams value a player based on what he has done

 

i imagine the Red Sox looking into a magical snowglobe and seeing all that John Lackey was going to do for them and saying "yup, that is worth $82.5 million to us"

 

Larry very well may have done just that.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If someone offers 2-3 of their top 10 or even 1 of their top 10+ 2 high ceiling young guys you don't say no. If not, as mentioned in the other thread in which this discussion is going in offer him 12.5 arb, but in a wink wink fashion. He says no, and we either pocket the pick or resign him to 2-3 year team friendly deal and he can finish up as a Cub.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

WAR = be all, end all? Are they trading for his 5 years?

is this a serious question? of course teams value a player based on what he has done

 

i imagine the Red Sox looking into a magical snowglobe and seeing all that John Lackey was going to do for them and saying "yup, that is worth $82.5 million to us"

 

Yeah I already said its not a good post.

 

Our best hopes will be that Toronto, Colorado, Boston, or the Tigers offer up something nice then. I could realistically see the Tigers mayber making a decent offer if they have one, and maybe Boston who is anything but solid in the rotation right now despite having talent there.

[javy knows my name]

I think a 5 year deal, back loaded, with a NTC and 2 year player option at $18 million per year is in order.

 

That sounds like a terrible deal.

 

I'm pretty sure you missed the Jim Hendry like sarcasm.

 

What a moron, right?

[BeerHere]

This seems to be the discussion for the 2012 Cubs. If you get enough for _________ (fill in the blank with Garza, Dempster, or Lahair) then trade him, if not retain/extend/keep him.

Agreed but there are guys I want gone just because and I don't care what we get back. Johnson, Lendy Castillo, Barney...Wood and Soto aren't there yet but they're getting there.

 

Yeah, that Soto is really trending in the wrong direction.

Damn this sarcasm detector, always giving me fits.

 

Soto is OPSing .560 and is getting on base at a robust .250 clip so far this season. It is early, but he needs to to pick it up.

[Sammy Sofa]

He's OPS-ing .746 over the last 2 weeks.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Soto is OPSing .560 and is getting on base at a robust .250 clip so far this season. It is early, but he needs to to pick it up.

 

Well duh. He's still a starting catcher who's been a good bat throughout his career.

[SouthSideRyan]

Actually that was a poorly thought out argument...Blech...Still think he's closer to a 4 than anyone here will care to admit. I certainly don't see the Cubs being a WS contender without adding at least one or two better arms (two if Shark isn't real).

 

Over the last 10 years, there's been 2 or 3 WS winning teams with a better #3 than Ryan Dempster.

Edited May 9, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[BeerHere]

He's OPS-ing .746 over the last 2 weeks.

So he's trending in the right direction. That's a good start but he's dug such a hole that a good two week period still has him sucking overall. I want to see the guy succeed, I honestly do, but his up/down nature with more down than up is growing old with me.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Actually that was a poorly thought out argument...Blech...Still think he's closer to a 4 than anyone here will care to admit. I certainly don't see the Cubs being a WS contender without adding at least one or two better arms (two if Shark isn't real).

 

Over the last 10 years, there's been 2 or 3 teams with a better #3 than Ryan Dempster.

 

Sure, I could see that I'm understating his talent some.

 

Are both of them from this season (Hamels and Bumgarner)?

[SouthSideRyan]

Actually that was a poorly thought out argument...Blech...Still think he's closer to a 4 than anyone here will care to admit. I certainly don't see the Cubs being a WS contender without adding at least one or two better arms (two if Shark isn't real).

 

Over the last 10 years, there's been 2 or 3 teams with a better #3 than Ryan Dempster.

 

Sure, I could see that I'm understating his talent some.

 

Are both of them from this season (Hamels and Bumgarner)?

 

Should've read world series winners.

[Sammy Sofa]

He's OPS-ing .746 over the last 2 weeks.

So he's trending in the right direction. That's a good start but he's dug such a hole that a good two week period still has him sucking overall. I want to see the guy succeed, I honestly do, but his up/down nature with more down than up is growing old with me.

 

What are you even talking about. Up and down, OK, fine, but he has by no means been "more down than up."

 

And who cares about "sucking overall?" "Hey, it's the end of May and Soto's been pretty good his month." "Yeah, but he sucked in April so it cancels that out."

Edited May 9, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[squally1313]

Actually that was a poorly thought out argument...Blech...Still think he's closer to a 4 than anyone here will care to admit. I certainly don't see the Cubs being a WS contender without adding at least one or two better arms (two if Shark isn't real).

 

Over the last 10 years, there's been 2 or 3 teams with a better #3 than Ryan Dempster.

 

Sure, I could see that I'm understating his talent some.

 

Are both of them from this season (Hamels and Bumgarner)?

 

Jesus. Pick an argument and stick with it. Let's not look at Dempster's last 5 years, and then quote Bucholz's 2010 WAR about 4 posts later.

 

This season, pretty much no one has been better than Dempster. Definitely not anyone's number 3.

[pitchcs]

Maybe not a "franchise changing" prospect, but why wouldn't someone give up something good for him if he continues to pitch well? He could be a legit high end #3 for a championship caliber team and those are pretty valuable. His K rate is good too which is a big plus for me come playoffs.

 

I love Dempster, he's been awesome here, but it's tough to see a contender taking him on as a high end third starter. He doesn't throw hard enough that you can trust his K's to translate say...into the AL East or something. Plus there's his penchant to just crap out a 6 walk start for no reason. Maybe if Hoyer is a good salesman, but teams are going to do homework on him and I doubt he gets graded as a high end 3 on a championship caliber club.

 

Huh?

 

He has 794 K's over 859 2/3 innings the past 4+ years.

[BeerHere]

He's OPS-ing .746 over the last 2 weeks.

So he's trending in the right direction. That's a good start but he's dug such a hole that a good two week period still has him sucking overall. I want to see the guy succeed, I honestly do, but his up/down nature with more down than up is growing old with me.

 

What are you even talking about. Up and down, OK, fine, but he has by no means been "more down than up."

 

And who cares about "sucking overall?" "Hey, it's the end of May and Soto's been pretty good his month." "Yeah, but he sucked in April so it cancels that out."

Soto has been good for the first 8 days of May after sucking for the entire month of April. I'm encouraged that he's starting to turn things around but I don't see why he is immune from criticism. My comment about up/down relates to this:

2008 OPS .868 3.1 WAR

2009 OPS .702 .1 WAR

2010 OPS .890 3.1 WAR

2011 OPS .721 1.5 WAR

2012 OPS .563 -.5 WAR (just 22 games, small sample size)

 

So it looks like he's equally down/up so I retract my "more down than up" comment. That being said, the guy is not immune from my criticism. He's due for an up year and I sincerely hope he has it....so he can be traded in July for better prospects.

[Sammy Sofa]

Nobody said he's immune from criticism. The response is from people saying things like "he's only getting worse" or "he's not getting better" or "it's time to move on from the Soto era" or whatever billionth meatball-ism we've heard about him.

 

And he's not "equally down and up." He's been a good player far more often than not in his 4 years as the Cubs' starting catcher.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

He has 794 K's over 859 2/3 innings the past 4+ years.

 

I would expect his K rate to go down moving to an AL team. I don't think that's a ridiculous guess/prediction.

[pitchcs]

He has 794 K's over 859 2/3 innings the past 4+ years.

 

I would expect his K rate to go down moving to an AL team. I don't think that's a ridiculous guess/prediction.

 

Sure, a tad because of no pitchers batting, but not enough to make a team acquiring him concerned about it.

[SpongeWorthy]

And he's not "equally down and up." He's been a good player far more often than not in his 4 years as the Cubs' starting catcher.

 

How do you figure?

[Sammy Sofa]

And he's not "equally down and up." He's been a good player far more often than not in his 4 years as the Cubs' starting catcher.

 

How do you figure?

 

The two years he was really good, the year he was good and the year he wasn't so good.

[Derwood]

that 372 ERA+ is sexy

[Guest]

that 372 ERA+ is sexy

 

That's good, but it's no 2007 Rich Hill after three starts.