Does Soto have ANY value right now?

[davearm2]

Soto and BABIP have spotted LaHair a huge lead, and I'll still take Soto for more WAR than LaHair this season.

Too much garbage in WAR. You trust the defensive metrics for catchers and 1Bs? I sure don't.

 

LaHair will out-OPS Soto.

 

The defense-challenged 1B will out-OPS the defensively solid catcher? GET OUTTA TOWN.

Nobody here would have taken that bet before the season. CW then was Soto was due for a big bounce-back, and LaHair is complete trash.

 

Once again there is no middle ground in the davearm2 universe.

I don't think you understand what the term conventional wisdom means.

[Sammy Sofa]

I understand/care little about what you think things mean.

[UK1679666180]

It looks to me that he's pulling off the ball, he hasn't been as selective and expanding his zone for the second year in a row and it looks to be getting worse.

 

I wouldn't look to get of him while his value at its lowest, but there are some concerns there long-term.

[davearm2]

I understand/care little about what you think things mean.

You had better care if you're going to misconstrue them constantly.

[Sammy Sofa]

dave, you continually present these made-up scenarios that paint poster's opinions here as some kind of black and white, either/or options; that you pretend like you don't do this when you've done it twice in this very thread just makes you that much more dull and unimportant.

[davearm2]

dave, you continually present these made-up scenarios that paint poster's opinions here as some kind of black and white, either/or options; that you pretend like you don't do this when you've done it twice in this very thread just makes you that much more dull and unimportant.

You make yourself sound like a total idiot when you say this garbage.

 

Just because I don't lay out every conceivable option doesn't lead to your goofball conclusion that I'm only considering the ones I've mentioned.

 

If you're so stupid that you need everything spelled out for you, then we're not going to get along very well because I'm not going to stoop to that level.

[Hendrys Ghost]

http://www.chicagonow.com/goat-riders-of-the-apocalypse/2012/04/geovany-soto-ought-to-be-a-tampa-bay-ray/

 

The Rays need a catcher. The Cubs need a rebuild. Why can't we be friends?

 

There isn't a place on this team for Geovany Soto, as Rob has pointed out many a time on this blog (you've felt that way since how long, Rob? 2009?). I've been a Soto fan for a long time; he has the potential to be a patient, powerful hitter, at arguably the most premium defensive position on the field. But he's on the wrong side of 27 for a team looking to go for it a few years from now.

[Guest]

dave, you continually present these made-up scenarios that paint poster's opinions here as some kind of black and white, either/or options; that you pretend like you don't do this when you've done it twice in this very thread just makes you that much more dull and unimportant.

You make yourself sound like a total idiot when you say this garbage.

 

Just because I don't lay out every conceivable option doesn't lead to your goofball conclusion that I'm only considering the ones I've mentioned.

 

If you're so stupid that you need everything spelled out for you, then we're not going to get along very well because I'm not going to stoop to that level.

 

Enough.

[MWV]

http://www.chicagonow.com/goat-riders-of-the-apocalypse/2012/04/geovany-soto-ought-to-be-a-tampa-bay-ray/

 

The Rays need a catcher. The Cubs need a rebuild. Why can't we be friends?

 

There isn't a place on this team for Geovany Soto, as Rob has pointed out many a time on this blog (you've felt that way since how long, Rob? 2009?). I've been a Soto fan for a long time; he has the potential to be a patient, powerful hitter, at arguably the most premium defensive position on the field. But he's on the wrong side of 27 for a team looking to go for it a few years from now.

 

I don't consider Soto to be a centerpiece of the franchise that must be extended into his mid thirties, but now is just an awful time to deal him. Why not see if he can regress to near his career average performance by mid-june, and then start working the phones?

[Sammy Sofa]

dave, you continually present these made-up scenarios that paint poster's opinions here as some kind of black and white, either/or options; that you pretend like you don't do this when you've done it twice in this very thread just makes you that much more dull and unimportant.

You make yourself sound like a total idiot when you say this garbage.

 

Just because I don't lay out every conceivable option doesn't lead to your goofball conclusion that I'm only considering the ones I've mentioned.

 

If you're so stupid that you need everything spelled out for you, then we're not going to get along very well because I'm not going to stoop to that level.

 

Still you completely miss the point: never has anyone implied they want you to "spell everything out." The point is that YOU MAKE THINGS UP and then try to demand that people choose between only two arbitrary options in your ridiculous, made-up scenario. "Spelling things out" would just mean you'd be posting even more, and nobody wants that.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

http://www.chicagonow.com/goat-riders-of-the-apocalypse/2012/04/geovany-soto-ought-to-be-a-tampa-bay-ray/

 

The Rays need a catcher. The Cubs need a rebuild. Why can't we be friends?

 

There isn't a place on this team for Geovany Soto, as Rob has pointed out many a time on this blog (you've felt that way since how long, Rob? 2009?). I've been a Soto fan for a long time; he has the potential to be a patient, powerful hitter, at arguably the most premium defensive position on the field. But he's on the wrong side of 27 for a team looking to go for it a few years from now.

 

See that's what I'm thinking...IIRC the Rays are starting the oldest Molina, who's been a career backup.

 

We need pitching...they have Davis out of the rotation...

 

I don't consider Soto to be a centerpiece of the franchise that must be extended into his mid thirties, but now is just an awful time to deal him. Why not see if he can regress to near his career average performance by mid-june, and then start working the phones?

 

Know you weren't talking to me but assume this is midseason and Soto has met the ideal conditions to trade him.

Edited April 23, 2012 by PriortoTheoIhadWood

[Hendrys Ghost]

http://www.chicagonow.com/goat-riders-of-the-apocalypse/2012/04/geovany-soto-ought-to-be-a-tampa-bay-ray/

 

The Rays need a catcher. The Cubs need a rebuild. Why can't we be friends?

 

There isn't a place on this team for Geovany Soto, as Rob has pointed out many a time on this blog (you've felt that way since how long, Rob? 2009?). I've been a Soto fan for a long time; he has the potential to be a patient, powerful hitter, at arguably the most premium defensive position on the field. But he's on the wrong side of 27 for a team looking to go for it a few years from now.

 

I don't consider Soto to be a centerpiece of the franchise that must be extended into his mid thirties, but now is just an awful time to deal him. Why not see if he can regress to near his career average performance by mid-june, and then start working the phones?

 

 

I hope he can get hot and then, yes, work the phones.

[Theo]

I'm thinking Soto for Alex Torres

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I'm thinking Soto for Alex Torres

 

Alex Torres + something right?

 

I like Torres, but I'd hope for more with Soto. We are talking about a starting C who can hit...

[Little Slide Rooter]

http://www.chicagonow.com/goat-riders-of-the-apocalypse/2012/04/geovany-soto-ought-to-be-a-tampa-bay-ray/

 

The Rays need a catcher. The Cubs need a rebuild. Why can't we be friends?

 

There isn't a place on this team for Geovany Soto, as Rob has pointed out many a time on this blog (you've felt that way since how long, Rob? 2009?). I've been a Soto fan for a long time; he has the potential to be a patient, powerful hitter, at arguably the most premium defensive position on the field. But he's on the wrong side of 27 for a team looking to go for it a few years from now.

 

I don't consider Soto to be a centerpiece of the franchise that must be extended into his mid thirties, but now is just an awful time to deal him. Why not see if he can regress to near his career average performance by mid-june, and then start working the phones?

 

The Rays have been actively seeking a catcher since ST. While Friedman isn't going to over pay for anyone, he's a smart enough GM and has enough respect for Epstein to know that if he is going to get Soto he'll have to make an offer based on at least his 2011 value rather than the first 3 weeks if the 2012 season.

[Theo]

I'm thinking Soto for Alex Torres

 

Alex Torres + something right?

 

I like Torres, but I'd hope for more with Soto. We are talking about a starting C who can hit...

 

Seriously? We are talking the 4th - 5th best prospect in a loaded farm system. I was joking when I typed that even, you are not getting that for Soto.

[Vanilla Ice]

One thing to consider when talking about the Rays is that Jose Molina is supposed to be the best pitch-framer in the entire league. Recent studies have shown that pitch-framing is under-valued throughout the league and worth more than previously thought.

 

Of course, these same studies showed Soto as comfortably above average

[Little Slide Rooter]

I'm thinking Soto for Alex Torres

 

Alex Torres + something right?

 

I like Torres, but I'd hope for more with Soto. We are talking about a starting C who can hit...

 

Give me Davis+Cobb+low level guy and we'll throw in either a big league or big league ready spare part or a fringe prospect.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Little Slide Rooter

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

I'm thinking Soto for Alex Torres

 

Alex Torres + something right?

 

I like Torres, but I'd hope for more with Soto. We are talking about a starting C who can hit...

 

Seriously? We are talking the 4th - 5th best prospect in a loaded farm system. I was joking when I typed that even, you are not getting that for Soto.

 

Jesus so Soto isn't even worthy of a 24 year old short lefty SP with control problems because he's highly ranked in the Rays farm system?

 

Who should I hope the Rays gift us peasants with? Nick Barnese? Alex Cobb? Some other arm half a step up from Zach Rosscup?

[SouthSideRyan]

Tampa's system isn't really "loaded" anymore.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Tampa's system isn't really "loaded" anymore.

 

This too...was going to say this.

 

Also, I'd rather have Grayson Garvin than Torres. Really wanted the Cubs to draft him last year.

[Guest]

Why does Tampa even need Soto? I was told that Chirinos should be pretty entrenched by now.

[Theo]

I think there's a real disconnect of what people think Soto is worth, you are going to struggle to more than a top 6-7th prospect for him.

[SouthSideRyan]

Why does Tampa even need Soto? I was told that Chirinos should be pretty entrenched by now.

 

YESSSSSSSSSSSS It's back!!

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Why does Tampa even need Soto? I was told that Chirinos should be pretty entrenched by now.

 

Lol. The overwhelming Cub fan reaction to that trade...from what I read because I wasn't overly involved in the thread here...was atrocious. Never have I seen so much outrage over losing a few mid-20's bench options.

 

It convinced me that prospects, as valuable as they are, can be ridiculously overvalued and smart FOs with money can take advantage of that. Here we see it in the case of Alex Torres being way too much for a 28 year old starting C who can it.