Cubs on deck for Sickels

[Little Slide Rooter]

http://www.minorleagueball.com/

 

Cubs preliminary prospect list was scheduled to come after the Indians, who were posted yesterday, so we should be up sometime today or tomorrow as they tend to do 1 per day. The organizational discussion has already been posted. Looking forword to it.

[toonsterwu]

I don't dislike Sickels raw list (41 including Flaherty/Gonzalez) all that much, but can't say I like it. I mean, most of the guys that I think should be on there are, but he's put some guys in there that I think there are legitimate debates about. Granted, back end of the list is back end of the list. After some arguing, I think the list looks a bit better now.

 

He wants Bianchi in there, which I find debatable, but he did the work (for KC) and didn't feel like taking him out. Okay, fair enough, his list. He wants Jay Jackson in there (who is probably a borderline top 40 case, I have him more on the back end of the top 50) to indicate he was wrong about Jay several years back. Ugh, doesn't seem like a good rationale to rank someone for me. Kirk/Jokisch in there bother me. I'd rather see a raw arm like Willengton Cruz ahead, but Kirk/Jokisch don't offer significantly better fastballs than Rusin. He likes Kirk, so he wants him on, and he thought Jokisch was more of an unknown, so he wanted him on. The former I can understand (also because of draft pedigree), the latter, eh.

[davell]

It's a solid statement about our sysem, he had 48 names to start with. That's a good thing. He didn't even have Antigua and Whitenack on it at first either. The guys on my current top 40, that didn't make his list are Carlos Penalaver, Easterling, Burke, Malave, and Rusin. Thought Penalver COULD make his list, since Candelario was a cinch. Figured Easterling would be in there and possibly a C+ guy. But Sickels is an age/level/performance guy, so tools need to be more refined, I guess. Rusin's old and a low ceiling, so I understand that one. And I've got Malave on my list because of his performance at Instructs and his winter season, which Sickels isn't looking at. Burke doesn't have enough info out for Sickels to rank him either.

[toonsterwu]

With Penalver, I think a lot of folks are waiting to see how the bat looks in XST/rookie league. A lot to like, but right now, slick fielder with some bat ability that is far away is probably tough to crack a top 40 list. He's often the lost third wheel to Hernandez/Amaya, but it wouldn't surprise me if Penalver really surged in a year or two.

[davell]

My prediction on Sickels' grades, as far as guys being B-'s or better: only B+ is Brett. B's are Baez, Szczur, McNutt, and Torreyes. B-'s are Vitters, Hernandez, Maples, Rhee, and Castillo. Over 20 guys total are C+ or better.

[BeerHere]

Where are you finding information on Malave's winter performance? Does anyone have information on Luis Acosta (where he played this winter) as well?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Looks like the preliminary list has pretty much every relevant prospect and the next step is to sort them out. On that note, I'm surprised that Whitenack didn't make the list. TJS and all, he was looking pretty great before he collapsed in a heap clutching his elbow(I remember that Tweet very well). Surprised to see Jeff Bianchi make it. I didn't realise he was only 25 and had a pretty good big league stint in 2009. As long as they listed Bianchi, they should have also listed Weather who I find more intriguing than a good number of guys on the list.

[davell]

Where are you finding information on Malave's winter performance? Does anyone have information on Luis Acosta (where he played this winter) as well?

Malave's winter has been followed at chicagocubsonline,com. Pretty sure Brett has posted updates as well. Acosta had an injury during Instructs and to my knowledge hasn't played winter ball. I don't think the injury was anything major though, if I remember correctly. Happened before games had even begun, I think. Pretty sure AZPhil said they were going to be cautious, is all.

[toonsterwu]

Looks like the preliminary list has pretty much every relevant prospect and the next step is to sort them out. On that note, I'm surprised that Whitenack didn't make the list. TJS and all, he was looking pretty great before he collapsed in a heap clutching his elbow(I remember that Tweet very well). Surprised to see Jeff Bianchi make it. I didn't realise he was only 25 and had a pretty good big league stint in 2009. As long as they listed Bianchi, they should have also listed Weather who I find more intriguing than a good number of guys on the list.

 

WSR - check his revised list below. I argued to get Whitenack on there, and in the revised list, Whitenack is on it. It's possible John simply forgot about him since he was on the shelf.

[toonsterwu]

My prediction on Sickels' grades, as far as guys being B-'s or better: only B+ is Brett. B's are Baez, Szczur, McNutt, and Torreyes. B-'s are Vitters, Hernandez, Maples, Rhee, and Castillo. Over 20 guys total are C+ or better.

 

I posted some predictions in the other thread, but don't be surprised if Sickels surprises and gives Antigua a B-. He had suggested awhile ago, in a Q&A, that he thought Antigua was a possible B-. I will be surprised if Rhee is a B-. He thought, awhile ago, that Rhee was closer to a C, and we had a discussion on that. Wouldn't surprise me if Maples pedigree gets him a B, and it wouldn't surprise me if Szczur/McNutt are B-.

[Rob]

I wouldn't be shocked to see Vitters a C+

[JeffH]

Looks like the preliminary list has pretty much every relevant prospect and the next step is to sort them out. On that note, I'm surprised that Whitenack didn't make the list. TJS and all, he was looking pretty great before he collapsed in a heap clutching his elbow(I remember that Tweet very well). Surprised to see Jeff Bianchi make it. I didn't realise he was only 25 and had a pretty good big league stint in 2009. As long as they listed Bianchi, they should have also listed Weather who I find more intriguing than a good number of guys on the list.

 

Jeff Bianchi has never played in the major leagues.

[toonsterwu]

Since there's a specific Sickels list, we can work with his for now, but at some point, this should probably get merged with the other thread.

 

Anyhow, Sickels has his list up. No need to post it completely here, I think, but someone can feel free and go ahead.

 

No real surprises - only a few worthy of B- or higher, and he was bullish on Vogelbach. I can understand concerns with Castillo's work behind the plate to bring him down to a C+.

 

His review at the end seems like something Cubs fans have been trying to tell general minor league fans all 2nd half of the year -

Overall, if I was a Cubs fan, I would be pleased with the level of depth, but anxious (in a good way) to see how the new front office manages the draft and international scouting to bolster what is already present.

[davell]

You called Szczur and McNutt. Cates at 16 was a surprise for me. Didn't make top 25 of Pads, so I figured he was a straight C guy. Surprised Torreyes was a C+, but I admit that I mark out for him. Still, I expect he'll vault up lists next year.

[davell]

You called Szczur and McNutt. Cates at 16 was a surprise for me. Didn't make top 25 of Pads, so I figured he was a straight C guy. Surprised Torreyes was a C+, but I admit that I mark out for him. Still, I expect he'll vault up lists next year.

[toonsterwu]

I mean, if I was nitpicking, leaving aside grades on Rhee/Vogelbach/Castillo, I'm not too enthused with the placement of Antigua/Beeler/Struck/Whitenack, and he seems to suggest that not all three were C+'s for him. I'd definitely take all four of those guys on a ranking ahead of, say, Sappelt, but that's me.

 

Anyhow, only one list left. The only important list in all honesty.

[Rob]

Called Vitters with the C+. Booyah.

 

I'm debating picking up the Sickels book this year. I gave him a shot about 5 years ago and was unimpressed but everybody deserves a second chance, right?

[Rob]

 

Anyhow, only one list left. The only important list in all honesty.

 

The NSBB community list?

[toonsterwu]

 

Anyhow, only one list left. The only important list in all honesty.

 

The NSBB community list?

 

yup ... unless there's another list I'm forgetting about? Heck, even read Jaypers list this year.

[toonsterwu]

You know, if there's one thing I don't like about the list, it's his suggestion that Beeler isn't a C+ and that Cates gets ranked that much higher. Most suggestions are that Beeler didn't lose stuff in AA - he just wasn't polished enough. That said, deeper arsenal (3 pitches he can go to, compared to 2.5 for Cates), only 6 months older WHILE having missed some time due to TJ, gets ground balls, arguably better life on the fastball, and better control (suggesting a better chance at developing into a starter). I really wonder, as Sickels seems to suggest it's performance related why he downgraded Beeler, if Beeler had chewed up Low A all year at his rates of 7+ K/9, sub 2 BB/9, if Beeler would've been higher.

 

A bit nitpicking, but that's the only thing that really, really, stands out to me.

[Rob]

 

Anyhow, only one list left. The only important list in all honesty.

 

The NSBB community list?

 

yup ... unless there's another list I'm forgetting about? Heck, even read Jaypers list this year.

 

I was going over my personal list earlier and I was shocked at how many guys in this system I find interesting. I think there's gonna be a lot of varying opinions on who belongs where in the NSBB list.

[davell]

Honestly, I was more of a Sickels fan before I really got into prospects as much as I am now. Before, I kind of thought all these guys were kind of equal, but since, I've even noticed a couple of snide remarks from some of these guys towards Sickels. Making it seem like he's not thought of as on their level. And then he comments that he's never even heard of Na before and it makes me wonder if they're right. I understand it's impossible to literally know the rosters of every minor league team there is, but to me, an "expert" should at least have guys who get solid bonuses on their watch list. Callis was asked about him and immediately responded, for instance. Law and Goldstein as well.

[toonsterwu]

Well, I'll say this about Sickels - he seems to have contacts in the mid-west a bit more, and some guys know him well (Jason Grey, I believe?). That said, Jason Churchill took a shot at him years ago that still resonates in my mind - roughly paraphrasing, but he basically said that anyone who grades by letter grades isn't worth following, and the intimation I recall was that the comment was directed towards Sickels.

 

What I like about Sickels the most isn't Sickels - it's a forum for prospect followers to discuss things. I said it in his thread, but this is the first year that I really liked his list, that I can recall.

[toonsterwu]

 

Anyhow, only one list left. The only important list in all honesty.

 

The NSBB community list?

 

yup ... unless there's another list I'm forgetting about? Heck, even read Jaypers list this year.

 

I was going over my personal list earlier and I was shocked at how many guys in this system I find interesting. I think there's gonna be a lot of varying opinions on who belongs where in the NSBB list.

 

Oh, btw I didn't mean to exclude or devalue personal lists. I was just focusing on the big lists (BA/BP/Sickels/Fangraphs, I think I'm missing one, but can't think of it. Does thehardballtimes still do it, or did they fold those efforts in with Hulet at fangraphs?)

 

I think the top of the list, outside of my aggressive rankings, should go fast. Once we get into the teens, we may simply decide to call it quits, as I could see a ton of varying opinions there. Heck, even Sickels has the Cubs C+'s running down to the mid-late 20's.

[CubColtPacer]

The one I just don't get is Ha. I guess with his tweener comment Sickels must not be high on his defense in center. Because other than that, you have a center fielder with decent power. Doesn't walk much but doesn't strike out that much either. He put up ok numbers last year, and will be 21 all of next year in AA. I don't see how a guy like that doesn't crack the top 25 unless you just absolutely believe he has to move to a corner. Haven't we heard by some scouts that he's an excellent defender in center and by others that he'll have to move?