Trading Soriano

[davell]

It wouldn't surprise me if Trevor May and/or Vance Worley were our targets and they're in Minnesota now.

[seanimal]

no it's not. every established major league player was once an non-established major league player. it's absolutely relevant to consider information regarding performance level by age when considering the viability of a potential major league player

 

A lot of players who never became established major league players were also non-established major league players. You can't assume that Brown is in the former group at this point.

 

well unfortunately, i don't have any information on the primes of people who never had them, so i guess i'll just have settle for the information i have about those that did

 

and you're right that we can't assume that Brown is going to become an established major league player. we can't make that assumption about any prospect, ever. we only know that they are so when they become so. but if we're going to assert that he's not going to join that group, not having done so by the end of his age 24 season isn't the strongest foundation to stand on. the clock is ticking, sure, but there's still time

[Hairyducked Idiot]

so, not this:

 

25 is already in the middle of prime

 

 

Yeah. That was crazybuckets and I feel the appropriate amount of shame and remorse.

[Little Slide Rooter]

@BleacherNation: RT @ChiTribRogers

Could Soriano & much of $36 million he's owed be part of a Bud Norris trade? Makes sense but would Sori waive 10/5 rights?

 

Rather than get into a debate of whether or not Norris would be worth eating $26MM, the real problems with this are A. if Soriano does waive the NTC, it will be to go to win and not a situation worse than the one he's in now, and B. why would the Astros want a 36 year old when their game plan seems to be get rid of everyone who's ever had a big league at bat?

[Little Slide Rooter]

@BleacherNation: RT @Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Phillies intensifying pursuit of Cody Ross. Other teams also being more aggressive. #Mariners among those

 

I'm wondering at this point if nobody really wants Soriano or if our asking price as far as player return goes is too high.

[Backtobanks]

@BleacherNation: RT @Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Phillies intensifying pursuit of Cody Ross. Other teams also being more aggressive. #Mariners among those

 

I'm wondering at this point if nobody really wants Soriano or if our asking price as far as player return goes is too high.

 

It has to be the we're asking too much. Also, the latest rumors speculate on the Cubs picking up a lot less money than earlier rumors of 90%+ of his contract. If the earlier rumors were true, I thought GMs had to be crazy not to take Soriano at $2million per year.

[Little Slide Rooter]

@BleacherNation: RT @Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Phillies intensifying pursuit of Cody Ross. Other teams also being more aggressive. #Mariners among those

 

I'm wondering at this point if nobody really wants Soriano or if our asking price as far as player return goes is too high.

 

It has to be the we're asking too much. Also, the latest rumors speculate on the Cubs picking up a lot less money than earlier rumors of 90%+ of his contract. If the earlier rumors were true, I thought GMs had to be crazy not to take Soriano at $2million per year.

 

It could also be that nobody was willing to give up the caliber or players that we were asking regardless of the money, and plan B is to ask for more salary relief and lesser players. If that's the case, if much rather keep Soriano until a time when someone's desperate enough to give up what we want in terms of players or the engine falls out. Whichever comes first. We're not exactly hurting for money.

 

At worst, he's good for 20 home runs and a mid .700s OPS, and that's not the type of production we're going to pull off the AAAA scrap heap, especially if his new found defensive improvement was for real.

[Backtobanks]

From MLBTR:

 

After picking up Mike Adams and John Lannan, Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer looks at what is left for the Phillies to spend on an outfield upgrade. By Gelb's math, the Phillies could sign an outfielder with an average annual salary of approximately $7MM and be right up against the tax threshold.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#EMd9JXptWE71BcCY.99

 

Soriano could certainly fit into that financial situation.

[davell]

You've got Swisher, Bourn, Ross, and Hairston left on the FA market. You've potentially got Granderson, Ellsbury, Fowler, Boesch, Willingham, Kubel, and Crisp rumored to be available potentially. And you've got the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, Orioles, White Sox, Tigers, Indians, Twins, Rangers, Mariners, Braves, Phillies, Mets, Pirates all looking for OF/DH help. We'll have chances to trade him, if its in our plans.

[Little Slide Rooter]

There's no doubt we have chances to trade him. The question is what will we get back.

[Guest]

You've got Swisher, Bourn, Ross, and Hairston left on the FA market. You've potentially got Granderson, Ellsbury, Fowler, Boesch, Willingham, Kubel, and Crisp rumored to be available potentially. And you've got the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, Orioles, White Sox, Tigers, Indians, Twins, Rangers, Mariners, Braves, Phillies, Mets, Pirates all looking for OF/DH help. We'll have chances to trade him, if its in our plans.

How is it that Granderson and Ellsbury are on the market, yet the Yankees and Red Sox are looking for OF help?

[davell]

You've got Swisher, Bourn, Ross, and Hairston left on the FA market. You've potentially got Granderson, Ellsbury, Fowler, Boesch, Willingham, Kubel, and Crisp rumored to be available potentially. And you've got the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, Orioles, White Sox, Tigers, Indians, Twins, Rangers, Mariners, Braves, Phillies, Mets, Pirates all looking for OF/DH help. We'll have chances to trade him, if its in our plans.

How is it that Granderson and Ellsbury are on the market, yet the Yankees and Red Sox are looking for OF help?

If they deal those guys, they'll need replacements, won't they? Not to mention, the Yanks need a DH/OF anyway, with Ichiro/Gardner/Granderson and the Red Sox may not want to go into the year with Kalish as a starter, as they would be doing, right now.

[davell]

By the way, in neither case do I think Ellsbury or Granderson get dealt, but they have been mentioned as trade possibilities. If thats the case, it makes it that much easier to move Soriano, by taking out other options obviously. Especially when both those teams may still be adding OF help to what they've got.

[Backtobanks]

Again, I don't understand why somebody hasn't gone after Soriano yet especially when we were reportedly willing to eat 90% of his contract.

[Guest]

Again, I don't understand why somebody hasn't gone after Soriano yet especially when we were reportedly willing to eat 90% of his contract.

Nobody in the NL will want him. People know what a butcher he is, moving him to the warning track only covers up so much. Even the Cubs know, that's why he only plays 7 innings. He's also a good bet to be hobbled at some point if he keeps playing the field. By all accounts he's a good guy and he can still knock the ball out of the park, so one would think his value would be to an American League team looking for a DH.

[Sammy Sofa]

People know what a butcher he is

 

He's not. Pulling him early has less to with his defensive ability (though it's not a completely unrelated issue) and more with keeping him healthy.

[pitchcs]

He's not a "butcher" but here's the problem with trading for Soriano. Whoever acquires him, even if only paying $5MM/year, is still going to get the brunt of the blame when Soriano messes up. People remember bad things much more than good, so the first few times he bobbles a ball/can't pick it up, doesn't hustle, drops a ball or has a mental error the fans are gonna be all over the GM for acquiring him. They would be much better off to wait until the deadline IMO and be able to play it off as a needed acquisition.

[javy knows my name]

Again, I don't understand why somebody hasn't gone after Soriano yet especially when we were reportedly willing to eat 90% of his contract.

Nobody in the NL will want him. People know what a butcher he is, moving him to the warning track only covers up so much. Even the Cubs know, that's why he only plays 7 innings. He's also a good bet to be hobbled at some point if he keeps playing the field. By all accounts he's a good guy and he can still knock the ball out of the park, so one would think his value would be to an American League team looking for a DH.

 

Soriano has been above average defensively for a LF for like 3 of the last 4 years.

[Guest]

Again, I don't understand why somebody hasn't gone after Soriano yet especially when we were reportedly willing to eat 90% of his contract.

Nobody in the NL will want him. People know what a butcher he is, moving him to the warning track only covers up so much. Even the Cubs know, that's why he only plays 7 innings. He's also a good bet to be hobbled at some point if he keeps playing the field. By all accounts he's a good guy and he can still knock the ball out of the park, so one would think his value would be to an American League team looking for a DH.

 

Soriano has been above average defensively for a LF for like 3 of the last 4 years.

Based on what? If you're going to cite UZR, save yourself first.

[seanimal]

Again, I don't understand why somebody hasn't gone after Soriano yet especially when we were reportedly willing to eat 90% of his contract.

Nobody in the NL will want him. People know what a butcher he is, moving him to the warning track only covers up so much. Even the Cubs know, that's why he only plays 7 innings. He's also a good bet to be hobbled at some point if he keeps playing the field. By all accounts he's a good guy and he can still knock the ball out of the park, so one would think his value would be to an American League team looking for a DH.

 

Soriano has been above average defensively for a LF for like 3 of the last 4 years.

Based on what? If you're going to cite UZR, save yourself first.

 

i think maybe you should defend your position before questioning anyone else's

[Soul]

He's not a "butcher" but here's the problem with trading for Soriano. Whoever acquires him, even if only paying $5MM/year, is still going to get the brunt of the blame when Soriano messes up. People remember bad things much more than good, so the first few times he bobbles a ball/can't pick it up, doesn't hustle, drops a ball or has a mental error the fans are gonna be all over the GM for acquiring him. They would be much better off to wait until the deadline IMO and be able to play it off as a needed acquisition.

 

That blame factor goes way down when the team isn't paying a ton of money for him, though. If the Cubs are really willing to eat much of his contract, then someone is going to come calling. Possibly 2013 trade deadline.

[Backtobanks]

He's not a "butcher" but here's the problem with trading for Soriano. Whoever acquires him, even if only paying $5MM/year, is still going to get the brunt of the blame when Soriano messes up. People remember bad things much more than good, so the first few times he bobbles a ball/can't pick it up, doesn't hustle, drops a ball or has a mental error the fans are gonna be all over the GM for acquiring him. They would be much better off to wait until the deadline IMO and be able to play it off as a needed acquisition.

 

I don't think a GM is going to catch any grief when he gets in one of those hot streaks and starts hitting 3-4 HRs in a week, especially if he's cheap and probably playing DH.

[Little Slide Rooter]

He's not a "butcher" but here's the problem with trading for Soriano. Whoever acquires him, even if only paying $5MM/year, is still going to get the brunt of the blame when Soriano messes up. People remember bad things much more than good, so the first few times he bobbles a ball/can't pick it up, doesn't hustle, drops a ball or has a mental error the fans are gonna be all over the GM for acquiring him. They would be much better off to wait until the deadline IMO and be able to play it off as a needed acquisition.

 

I don't think a GM is going to catch any grief when he gets in one of those hot streaks and starts hitting 3-4 HRs in a week, especially if he's cheap and probably playing DH.

 

Nobody should catch any grief whatsoever assuming that they're only taking on around $10MM or less over a 2 year period and giving up something along the lines of what we got for DeRosa.

[davell]

If we're paying all but 10 mill of Soriano's deal, I want better than a DeRosa type package. By a good bit honestly. Power is at a premium and a team vetting Sori for 2/10 in this market is a steal.

[WrigleyField 22]

While at the tome the DeRosa trade didn't seem special, hindsight says it was pretty good. I'll take a Chris Archer for Soriano, with the expectation we also fill Sotianos spot with a legit big leage starter.

 

 

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