Trading Soriano

[SouthSideRyan]

God, Truffle, your so stupid.

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah rather than going to the "hassle" of taking 10 seconds to look something up or rereading a post before hitting submit, mineaswell just annoy everyone on the board with constant misspellings and grammatical errors.

Constant annoying misspellings like, say, mineaswell.

 

so much whoosh

[CincyCubsFan]

yeah rather than going to the "hassle" of taking 10 seconds to look something up or rereading a post before hitting submit, mineaswell just annoy everyone on the board with constant misspellings and grammatical errors.

Constant annoying misspellings like, say, mineaswell.

Oh good god...

[CubColtPacer]

Topic please.

[davearm2]

yeah rather than going to the "hassle" of taking 10 seconds to look something up or rereading a post before hitting submit, mineaswell just annoy everyone on the board with constant misspellings and grammatical errors.

Constant annoying misspellings like, say, mineaswell.

 

so much whoosh

No whoosh. It's annoying. It's constant. It's a misspelling.

 

FYI, the fact that you do it on purpose doesn't make it better.

 

And it sure as heck doesn't make it funny.

Edited January 8, 2012 by davearm2

[TruffleShuffle]

let's try to stay on topic dave

[Guest]

CCP asked nicely.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Disobeying the CCP is not wise. Sorry, I couldn't help it.

[Clem Fandango]

Short of DFA'ing Soriano, the more I look at it, there's no chance of us trading him, unless we're taking back an equally awful contract, of which I haven't seen.(other than Wells) Pat Burrell, Jonny Gomes, Raul Ibanez, Vladimir Guerrero, Ryan Ludwick, Luke Scott, Rick Ankiel, Cody Ross, Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, and Manny Ramirez are all available and can be had for much less than Soriano, unless we're eating 50 mill basically. Even then, these guys are almost definitely going to be signing one year deals. Getting back a former highly ranked prospect, that's only a year or two removed from that? Abolutely ZERO chance. I thought it might be possible too, but after looking at who all's still out there, it ain't happening folks.

 

You bring up a good point. Unless we're eating so much that it will only cost a team $5 million or less per season of Soriano, there's really no reason for anyone to bite on him with that lineup of available players out there who can put up comparable numbers for a better price (and probably friendlier terms). And even then this report summary suggests that even if Soriano came over costing the O's $3-$4 million a season after we picked up the rest they still wouldn't like it...

 

Talks between the Orioles and Cubs were probably not very serious, sources told Rich Dubroff of CSNBaltimore.com. Dan Duquette doesn't want to spend heavily on a designated hitter and even if the Cubs ate about 80% of the $54MM owed to Soriano, the O's would still be on the hook for $3-4MM for each of the next three seasons.

 

I still think they move him, but the hopes and dreams of getting anything even remotely valuable back is probably nil. I get the feeling that Volstad for Zambrano will look like a coup compared to a Soriano deal

[Little Slide Rooter]

The problem with dealing with the Orioles is while they are better than us, it's hard for them to be viewed as a contender when they share a time zone with 3 of the best teams in baseball and a 4th that's getting there. For this reason, unless it's at a price that heavily benefits them theres not much use for a guy like Soriano there and they should be more focused on moving their own veterans for young players, and they do have some moveable assets Markakis, Reynolds, Guthrie, and Roberts that would generate some degree of interest as well as Wieters and Jones who they could either build around or move for huge hauls.

[Guest]

The problem with dealing with the Orioles is while they are better than us, it's hard for them to be viewed as a contender when they share a time zone with 3 of the best teams in baseball and a 4th that's getting there. For this reason, unless it's at a price that heavily benefits them theres not much use for a guy like Soriano there and they should be more focused on moving their own veterans for young players, and they do have some moveable assets Markakis, Reynolds, Guthrie, and Roberts that would generate some degree of interest as well as Wieters and Jones who they could either build around or move for huge hauls.

The Orioles are not better than us.

[Guest]

yeah rather than going to the "hassle" of taking 10 seconds to look something up or rereading a post before hitting submit, mineaswell just annoy everyone on the board with constant misspellings and grammatical errors.

Constant annoying misspellings like, say, mineaswell.

 

Oh my God.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The problem with dealing with the Orioles is while they are better than us, it's hard for them to be viewed as a contender when they share a time zone with 3 of the best teams in baseball and a 4th that's getting there. For this reason, unless it's at a price that heavily benefits them theres not much use for a guy like Soriano there and they should be more focused on moving their own veterans for young players, and they do have some moveable assets Markakis, Reynolds, Guthrie, and Roberts that would generate some degree of interest as well as Wieters and Jones who they could either build around or move for huge hauls.

The Orioles are not better than us.

 

At the big league level? The have Wieters, Jones, Markakis, Hardy, Reynolds and Roberts. May not be a murderers row, but certainly better than any lineup we could put together at this time. They also have some young pitchers that may or may not make it in the big leagues but if we do trade Garza our rotation won't be better than theirs. Might not be anyway depending on what becomes of Britton, Matusz, and Hunter. And didn't they just sign a decent Japanese pitcher or were they just talking about doing so?

[toonsterwu]

The problem with dealing with the Orioles is while they are better than us, it's hard for them to be viewed as a contender when they share a time zone with 3 of the best teams in baseball and a 4th that's getting there. For this reason, unless it's at a price that heavily benefits them theres not much use for a guy like Soriano there and they should be more focused on moving their own veterans for young players, and they do have some moveable assets Markakis, Reynolds, Guthrie, and Roberts that would generate some degree of interest as well as Wieters and Jones who they could either build around or move for huge hauls.

 

I'd argue the problem for the Orioles right now is

 

a) Some of their young arms have really faltered and have serious concerns (Matusz/Tillman). They had four young arms they were looking forward to ... right now, of that foursome (the aforementioned duo and Britton/Arrieta), they look to have 1 good starter, 1 inconsistent starter, and 2 gigantic question marks. No team should ever realistically hope that 4/4 top prospect arms should hit, but it sure feel like they expected 3 of them to.

 

b) A relatively weak system. A couple stud guys in Dylan Bundy and Manny Machado, but really, this system is pretty bad right now. There's Schoop, a whole bunch of folks from this draft class (which doesn't look that great), Bobby Bundy.

 

c) (and why I responded) A lack of quality trade chips/trade chips they over-value. I'm not sure too many teams are going to fork over the quality assets that the Orioles believe they should get for Nick Markakis and Jeremy Guthrie, but the Orioles aren't moving them unless it's a quality return. Markakis' power decline has a lot of folks alarmed, and he's signed down for fairly big money (3/42 left with an additional option year at 17.5 or a 3 mil buyout). Guthrie's a Randy Wells/Chris Volstad/Travis Wood level pitcher masquerading as an ace and not exactly cheap. Brian Roberts is an injury prone 2nd baseman now, past his prime, and still locked down for 2/20. Reynolds is Mark Reynolds, a poor fieldng slugger.

 

One of the few guys they should trade (only 2 years until FA) is Adam Jones. Jones, though, is a tough guy to value. Orioles look at him as an emerging stud, while a lot of folks look at his as a poor fielding, questionable discipline guy. They want elite chips ... I'm not sure teams are going to give elite chips for him. Good, perhaps. One guy I would move, if I were them, is JJ Hardy, but I doubt they'll do so. I don't know if he can replicate the offensive season he just had, so this might be peak sell time.

[Sammy Sofa]

Seems like an awful lot of hassle to spell a baseball players name, especially posting from a phone. I'd just as soon wing it and if someone correct me that's OK.

 

The amount of time it would take would probably only cut your 80 daily posts to about 75.

[UMFan83]

yeah rather than going to the "hassle" of taking 10 seconds to look something up or rereading a post before hitting submit, mineaswell just annoy everyone on the board with constant misspellings and grammatical errors.

 

Not quite sure why people even get so annoyed at such things. I guess I mineswell learn to spell.

 

How much time do you spend on this forum every day?

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm at a Perth Heat baseball game and some guy three seats down from me was just telling someone sitting behind him that he's a cubs fan because his favorite player, Alfonso Soriano, plays for them. lol

[Guest]

I have an e-buddy who works for the Perth Heat.

[TruffleShuffle]

I have an e-buddy who works for the Perth Heat.

 

they're awesome... 26-9 record. no other team is over .500. their team ops is over .900 and best ERA in the league by almost a run.

 

btw old friend alex maestri is pitching for brisbane and beat the heat a couple of nights ago.

[Backtobanks]

The problem with dealing with the Orioles is while they are better than us, it's hard for them to be viewed as a contender when they share a time zone with 3 of the best teams in baseball and a 4th that's getting there. For this reason, unless it's at a price that heavily benefits them theres not much use for a guy like Soriano there and they should be more focused on moving their own veterans for young players, and they do have some moveable assets Markakis, Reynolds, Guthrie, and Roberts that would generate some degree of interest as well as Wieters and Jones who they could either build around or move for huge hauls.

 

I'd argue the problem for the Orioles right now is

 

a) Some of their young arms have really faltered and have serious concerns (Matusz/Tillman). They had four young arms they were looking forward to ... right now, of that foursome (the aforementioned duo and Britton/Arrieta), they look to have 1 good starter, 1 inconsistent starter, and 2 gigantic question marks. No team should ever realistically hope that 4/4 top prospect arms should hit, but it sure feel like they expected 3 of them to.

 

b) A relatively weak system. A couple stud guys in Dylan Bundy and Manny Machado, but really, this system is pretty bad right now. There's Schoop, a whole bunch of folks from this draft class (which doesn't look that great), Bobby Bundy.

 

c) (and why I responded) A lack of quality trade chips/trade chips they over-value. I'm not sure too many teams are going to fork over the quality assets that the Orioles believe they should get for Nick Markakis and Jeremy Guthrie, but the Orioles aren't moving them unless it's a quality return. Markakis' power decline has a lot of folks alarmed, and he's signed down for fairly big money (3/42 left with an additional option year at 17.5 or a 3 mil buyout). Guthrie's a Randy Wells/Chris Volstad/Travis Wood level pitcher masquerading as an ace and not exactly cheap. Brian Roberts is an injury prone 2nd baseman now, past his prime, and still locked down for 2/20. Reynolds is Mark Reynolds, a poor fieldng slugger.

 

One of the few guys they should trade (only 2 years until FA) is Adam Jones. Jones, though, is a tough guy to value. Orioles look at him as an emerging stud, while a lot of folks look at his as a poor fielding, questionable discipline guy. They want elite chips ... I'm not sure teams are going to give elite chips for him. Good, perhaps. One guy I would move, if I were them, is JJ Hardy, but I doubt they'll do so. I don't know if he can replicate the offensive season he just had, so this might be peak sell time.

 

If they're really worried about Markakis, I'll gladly do a Markakis for Soriano + $10-$15 million trade. Somehow I don't think they're that worried.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Seems like an awful lot of hassle to spell a baseball players name, especially posting from a phone. I'd just as soon wing it and if someone correct me that's OK.

 

The amount of time it would take would probably only cut your 80 daily posts to about 75.

 

But then people would stop criticizing my spelling and grammar which might give me incentive to post more and the plan would blow up in your face.

[biittner77]

The problem with dealing with the Orioles is while they are better than us, it's hard for them to be viewed as a contender when they share a time zone with 3 of the best teams in baseball and a 4th that's getting there. For this reason, unless it's at a price that heavily benefits them theres not much use for a guy like Soriano there and they should be more focused on moving their own veterans for young players, and they do have some moveable assets Markakis, Reynolds, Guthrie, and Roberts that would generate some degree of interest as well as Wieters and Jones who they could either build around or move for huge hauls.

 

I'd argue the problem for the Orioles right now is

 

a) Some of their young arms have really faltered and have serious concerns (Matusz/Tillman). They had four young arms they were looking forward to ... right now, of that foursome (the aforementioned duo and Britton/Arrieta), they look to have 1 good starter, 1 inconsistent starter, and 2 gigantic question marks. No team should ever realistically hope that 4/4 top prospect arms should hit, but it sure feel like they expected 3 of them to.

 

b) A relatively weak system. A couple stud guys in Dylan Bundy and Manny Machado, but really, this system is pretty bad right now. There's Schoop, a whole bunch of folks from this draft class (which doesn't look that great), Bobby Bundy.

 

c) (and why I responded) A lack of quality trade chips/trade chips they over-value. I'm not sure too many teams are going to fork over the quality assets that the Orioles believe they should get for Nick Markakis and Jeremy Guthrie, but the Orioles aren't moving them unless it's a quality return. Markakis' power decline has a lot of folks alarmed, and he's signed down for fairly big money (3/42 left with an additional option year at 17.5 or a 3 mil buyout). Guthrie's a Randy Wells/Chris Volstad/Travis Wood level pitcher masquerading as an ace and not exactly cheap. Brian Roberts is an injury prone 2nd baseman now, past his prime, and still locked down for 2/20. Reynolds is Mark Reynolds, a poor fieldng slugger.

 

One of the few guys they should trade (only 2 years until FA) is Adam Jones. Jones, though, is a tough guy to value. Orioles look at him as an emerging stud, while a lot of folks look at his as a poor fielding, questionable discipline guy. They want elite chips ... I'm not sure teams are going to give elite chips for him. Good, perhaps. One guy I would move, if I were them, is JJ Hardy, but I doubt they'll do so. I don't know if he can replicate the offensive season he just had, so this might be peak sell time.

 

If they're really worried about Markakis, I'll gladly do a Markakis for Soriano + $10-$15 million trade. Somehow I don't think they're that worried.

 

It's not the Orioles that are worried, it's everyone else.

 

In a salary swap type deal for Markakis, the O's would probably want McNutt, Vitters, Soriano and probably someone else + enough money to come out equal. Basically way more than he's worth.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The problem with dealing with the Orioles is while they are better than us, it's hard for them to be viewed as a contender when they share a time zone with 3 of the best teams in baseball and a 4th that's getting there. For this reason, unless it's at a price that heavily benefits them theres not much use for a guy like Soriano there and they should be more focused on moving their own veterans for young players, and they do have some moveable assets Markakis, Reynolds, Guthrie, and Roberts that would generate some degree of interest as well as Wieters and Jones who they could either build around or move for huge hauls.

 

I'd argue the problem for the Orioles right now is

 

a) Some of their young arms have really faltered and have serious concerns (Matusz/Tillman). They had four young arms they were looking forward to ... right now, of that foursome (the aforementioned duo and Britton/Arrieta), they look to have 1 good starter, 1 inconsistent starter, and 2 gigantic question marks. No team should ever realistically hope that 4/4 top prospect arms should hit, but it sure feel like they expected 3 of them to.

 

b) A relatively weak system. A couple stud guys in Dylan Bundy and Manny Machado, but really, this system is pretty bad right now. There's Schoop, a whole bunch of folks from this draft class (which doesn't look that great), Bobby Bundy.

 

c) (and why I responded) A lack of quality trade chips/trade chips they over-value. I'm not sure too many teams are going to fork over the quality assets that the Orioles believe they should get for Nick Markakis and Jeremy Guthrie, but the Orioles aren't moving them unless it's a quality return. Markakis' power decline has a lot of folks alarmed, and he's signed down for fairly big money (3/42 left with an additional option year at 17.5 or a 3 mil buyout). Guthrie's a Randy Wells/Chris Volstad/Travis Wood level pitcher masquerading as an ace and not exactly cheap. Brian Roberts is an injury prone 2nd baseman now, past his prime, and still locked down for 2/20. Reynolds is Mark Reynolds, a poor fieldng slugger.

 

One of the few guys they should trade (only 2 years until FA) is Adam Jones. Jones, though, is a tough guy to value. Orioles look at him as an emerging stud, while a lot of folks look at his as a poor fielding, questionable discipline guy. They want elite chips ... I'm not sure teams are going to give elite chips for him. Good, perhaps. One guy I would move, if I were them, is JJ Hardy, but I doubt they'll do so. I don't know if he can replicate the offensive season he just had, so this might be peak sell time.

 

In regards to C, its somewhat of a testemet to why our front office team is so valuable. It could be said that we have our own share of players we over value and lack of good trade chips. However, aside from Garza who has real value our guys are willing to move guys for packages that might not look wins at the time but are best for us. Sometimes when a trade is made its OK to let the other guy walking away feeling like they won as long as you get something you really need in return for May something that doesn't fit in with your plans. For example, acquiring Volstad and minimal salary relief for Zambrano may have seemed like a win for the Marlins, especially if Ozzie can keep Z in line and get a great back end starter out of him, and that's what he'd be there with JJ, Buehrle, Sanchez, and Nolasco in the rotation. Volstad may have seen like junk to most of us, but Theo loves these former top prospects who are still young enough that theres a glimmer of hope that he can be useful for us long after Big Z would be gone anyway.

[Backtobanks]

The problem with dealing with the Orioles is while they are better than us, it's hard for them to be viewed as a contender when they share a time zone with 3 of the best teams in baseball and a 4th that's getting there. For this reason, unless it's at a price that heavily benefits them theres not much use for a guy like Soriano there and they should be more focused on moving their own veterans for young players, and they do have some moveable assets Markakis, Reynolds, Guthrie, and Roberts that would generate some degree of interest as well as Wieters and Jones who they could either build around or move for huge hauls.

 

I'd argue the problem for the Orioles right now is

 

a) Some of their young arms have really faltered and have serious concerns (Matusz/Tillman). They had four young arms they were looking forward to ... right now, of that foursome (the aforementioned duo and Britton/Arrieta), they look to have 1 good starter, 1 inconsistent starter, and 2 gigantic question marks. No team should ever realistically hope that 4/4 top prospect arms should hit, but it sure feel like they expected 3 of them to.

 

b) A relatively weak system. A couple stud guys in Dylan Bundy and Manny Machado, but really, this system is pretty bad right now. There's Schoop, a whole bunch of folks from this draft class (which doesn't look that great), Bobby Bundy.

 

c) (and why I responded) A lack of quality trade chips/trade chips they over-value. I'm not sure too many teams are going to fork over the quality assets that the Orioles believe they should get for Nick Markakis and Jeremy Guthrie, but the Orioles aren't moving them unless it's a quality return. Markakis' power decline has a lot of folks alarmed, and he's signed down for fairly big money (3/42 left with an additional option year at 17.5 or a 3 mil buyout). Guthrie's a Randy Wells/Chris Volstad/Travis Wood level pitcher masquerading as an ace and not exactly cheap. Brian Roberts is an injury prone 2nd baseman now, past his prime, and still locked down for 2/20. Reynolds is Mark Reynolds, a poor fieldng slugger.

 

One of the few guys they should trade (only 2 years until FA) is Adam Jones. Jones, though, is a tough guy to value. Orioles look at him as an emerging stud, while a lot of folks look at his as a poor fielding, questionable discipline guy. They want elite chips ... I'm not sure teams are going to give elite chips for him. Good, perhaps. One guy I would move, if I were them, is JJ Hardy, but I doubt they'll do so. I don't know if he can replicate the offensive season he just had, so this might be peak sell time.

 

In regards to C, its somewhat of a testemet to why our front office team is so valuable. It could be said that we have our own share of players we over value and lack of good trade chips. However, aside from Garza who has real value our guys are willing to move guys for packages that might not look wins at the time but are best for us. Sometimes when a trade is made its OK to let the other guy walking away feeling like they won as long as you get something you really need in return for May something that doesn't fit in with your plans. For example, acquiring Volstad and minimal salary relief for Zambrano may have seemed like a win for the Marlins, especially if Ozzie can keep Z in line and get a great back end starter out of him, and that's what he'd be there with JJ, Buehrle, Sanchez, and Nolasco in the rotation. Volstad may have seen like junk to most of us, but Theo loves these former top prospects who are still young enough that theres a glimmer of hope that he can be useful for us long after Big Z would be gone anyway.

 

Let's not give "our guys" too much credit. Any team trading ML talent for prospects doesn't look like a "win", but they think it's what's best for them. Obviously, the team receiving the ML talent (Marlins) are in a win-now mode while the Cubs are in a rebuilding mode.

[davell]

The problem with dealing with the Orioles is while they are better than us, it's hard for them to be viewed as a contender when they share a time zone with 3 of the best teams in baseball and a 4th that's getting there. For this reason, unless it's at a price that heavily benefits them theres not much use for a guy like Soriano there and they should be more focused on moving their own veterans for young players, and they do have some moveable assets Markakis, Reynolds, Guthrie, and Roberts that would generate some degree of interest as well as Wieters and Jones who they could either build around or move for huge hauls.

 

I'd argue the problem for the Orioles right now is

 

a) Some of their young arms have really faltered and have serious concerns (Matusz/Tillman). They had four young arms they were looking forward to ... right now, of that foursome (the aforementioned duo and Britton/Arrieta), they look to have 1 good starter, 1 inconsistent starter, and 2 gigantic question marks. No team should ever realistically hope that 4/4 top prospect arms should hit, but it sure feel like they expected 3 of them to.

 

b) A relatively weak system. A couple stud guys in Dylan Bundy and Manny Machado, but really, this system is pretty bad right now. There's Schoop, a whole bunch of folks from this draft class (which doesn't look that great), Bobby Bundy.

 

c) (and why I responded) A lack of quality trade chips/trade chips they over-value. I'm not sure too many teams are going to fork over the quality assets that the Orioles believe they should get for Nick Markakis and Jeremy Guthrie, but the Orioles aren't moving them unless it's a quality return. Markakis' power decline has a lot of folks alarmed, and he's signed down for fairly big money (3/42 left with an additional option year at 17.5 or a 3 mil buyout). Guthrie's a Randy Wells/Chris Volstad/Travis Wood level pitcher masquerading as an ace and not exactly cheap. Brian Roberts is an injury prone 2nd baseman now, past his prime, and still locked down for 2/20. Reynolds is Mark Reynolds, a poor fieldng slugger.

 

One of the few guys they should trade (only 2 years until FA) is Adam Jones. Jones, though, is a tough guy to value. Orioles look at him as an emerging stud, while a lot of folks look at his as a poor fielding, questionable discipline guy. They want elite chips ... I'm not sure teams are going to give elite chips for him. Good, perhaps. One guy I would move, if I were them, is JJ Hardy, but I doubt they'll do so. I don't know if he can replicate the offensive season he just had, so this might be peak sell time.

 

In regards to C, its somewhat of a testemet to why our front office team is so valuable. It could be said that we have our own share of players we over value and lack of good trade chips. However, aside from Garza who has real value our guys are willing to move guys for packages that might not look wins at the time but are best for us. Sometimes when a trade is made its OK to let the other guy walking away feeling like they won as long as you get something you really need in return for May something that doesn't fit in with your plans. For example, acquiring Volstad and minimal salary relief for Zambrano may have seemed like a win for the Marlins, especially if Ozzie can keep Z in line and get a great back end starter out of him, and that's what he'd be there with JJ, Buehrle, Sanchez, and Nolasco in the rotation. Volstad may have seen like junk to most of us, but Theo loves these former top prospects who are still young enough that theres a glimmer of hope that he can be useful for us long after Big Z would be gone anyway.

 

Let's not give "our guys" too much credit. Any team trading ML talent for prospects doesn't look like a "win", but they think it's what's best for them. Obviously, the team receiving the ML talent (Marlins) are in a win-now mode while the Cubs are in a rebuilding mode.

Wait, you basically don't think you can win a trade unless you're the buyer? Because, as far as trades have gone with "our guys" so far, we've "won" all 4 of them. They've done a phenomenal job in that department.