Yooooooooooooennis Cespedes: To Oakland pg 44

[MSG T]

Nobody's panicking. My post was in response to FNDomination basically saying that the Cubs should let themselves be outbid by the Marlins.

 

I wasn't addressing you, more the worried tone the thread suddenly took.

[Tracer Bullet]

Nobody's panicking. My post was in response to FNDomination basically saying that the Cubs should let themselves be outbid by the Marlins.

 

I wouldn't say nobody is panicking.

[Sammy Sofa]

The time to panic is long past. Cespedes is nowhere near making or breaking this crapbucket of a team.

[NonProfitCow]

If we want Cespedes, he will be a Cub. Period.

Unless, you know, he doesn't want to be a Cub.

[manbearcub]

Nobody's panicking. My post was in response to FNDomination basically saying that the Cubs should let themselves be outbid by the Marlins.

Well, you know, maybe he just doesn't want to sign the guy.

[davearm2]

The time to panic is long past.

Actually it's time to celebrate that the folks in charge are smart enough not to build the team the way you would.

[Sammy Sofa]

Try not to be too davearm2, davearm2; I'm happy that they're building for the long term, but I'm not going to be a schmuck and pretend like all of the horrible baseball in the meantime until the promised land is reached is a good thing.

 

It's like trying to lose 30 pounds; the end result is fantastic if successful but the journey getting there [expletive] suuuuuuuuuucks.

[davell]

If we can land Cespedes, the second half of the season, winning or losing, will be must watch, at the very least, presumably with Brett, Cespedes, and Rizzo all playing everyday. I'll take exciting, in any way, shape, or form over watching a bunch of league average 33 year olds play out the string.

[JGalt73]

"It would be good [to play here]," Cespedes told the Sun-Sentinel on Tuesday. "There are a lot of Cubans and they would support me a lot. Hopefully I can play for the Marlins."

 

[davearm2]

Oh please. You've been advocating for months (wait, years) that the Cubs overspend for past-prime players on the dubious "logic" that hey, why not? Awful contracts won't cripple the team.

 

Nobody likes the rebuilding process. But it's necessary.

 

It's the necessity that you don't grasp. Your plan is to keep throwing money at the problem.

[Sammy Sofa]

Ugh, you're the worst. You're such a broken down CPU it's not even funny anymore.

 

What would you like to make up next?

[shnsajax]

It's not as if selling a Cuban on Miami is difficult. The whole key is paying the man and convincing him Chicago is the better choice. Theo knows this and is prepared.

[davell]

Those comments aren't cool to see, but if Theo really wants this guy, we'll offer more money. And, in the end, I just don't see Cespedes taking less money to play somewhere else. It may be his only contract, for all anyone knows.

[Cubswin11]

Eh, don't really care if we miss out especially if he gets a deal for $50-60m+. Soler is the guy I really hope we get, as I prefer him to Cespedes. If we only get one Soler is my preference, younger, cheaper, probably equally as much upside as Soler will get to be developed in the MLB minor league system and not Cuba (which the MLE is somewhere around A ball), and if all works out he should be ML ready around when we, hopefully, become annual contenders in a few years. Edited February 8, 2012 by Cubswin11

[davearm2]

Ugh, you're the worst. You're such a broken down CPU it's not even funny anymore.

 

What would you like to make up next?

I'm making up your stance that the Cubs should go hard after Dunn, Fielder, Pujols, Wilson etc etc?

 

That's rich. Way to stand behind your (millions of endlessly repeated) words. :lol:

[questionmarkgrace]

The time to panic is long past.

Actually it's time to celebrate that the folks in charge are smart enough not to build the team the way you would.

 

Collecting prospects does not equate to winning a world series. you have to develop them, hope they come of age at the same time, keep the right ones, and add complimentary free agents at the right positions if they are available. There is no evidence though that this method is a better or more consistent way to the world series than being free agent heavy, and adding complimentary young talent. Both ways have won world series as of late. One is certainly more fiscally responsible but what do I care about that, we pay some of the highest ticket prices in the league and last I checked I'm not the cubs accountant. The one for sure thing though is that the bottom up method takes a heck of a lot longer and the latter method is probably not sustainable.

 

The best method is probably to add key amateur talent and good free agents. I wouldnt classify this years free agent acquisitions as 'good' because its been more like dumpster diving. There is no reason why we cant add amatuer talent like we have this year and sign one or two big free agents. (again I will feel alot better about this if we sign cespedes) Financially it makes great sense because the savings from playing younger positions players with big time talent offsets each other.

 

If we can land Cespedes, the second half of the season, winning or losing, will be must watch, at the very least, presumably with Brett, Cespedes, and Rizzo all playing everyday. I'll take exciting, in any way, shape, or form over watching a bunch of league average 33 year olds play out the string.

 

Try not to be too davearm2, davearm2; I'm happy that they're building for the long term, but I'm not going to be a schmuck and pretend like all of the horrible baseball in the meantime until the promised land is reached is a good thing.

 

It's like trying to lose 30 pounds; the end result is fantastic if successful but the journey getting there [expletive] suuuuuuuuuucks.

 

I think nuts and gum has it right. This is certainly going to suck. Cespedes would make me more hopeful of competing. If Rizzo or Jackson come up, meh those guys will need some seasoning before becoming fulltime players. It may be easier on the eyes to see rookies getting playing time but it still doesnt change the fact that there will be significant growing pains and little to no run production.

[davell]

I want to see progress. We NEED to see progress. Wins and losses don't matter to me in 2012. We're not winning it all, so it shouldn't matter to anyone. We need to see solid development from our "core", which is Castro, Brett, and Rizzo for now. We need to see progress in the minors from a slew of guys that we talk about in the minors forum all the time. We need to add a couple more guys to the "core" group between now and next offseason. And we need to have an excellent draft and IFA signing period. If all these things can occur, next offseason and the following season will have a much different feel than 2012 does. And with the group we have making the decisions, I think it's not only possible, but likely.

[Rob]

Nobody likes the rebuilding process. But it's necessary.

 

I wouldn't go that far. There were ways to make this team a fringe contender in 2012 without handing out bad contracts.

[davearm2]

Collecting prospects does not equate to winning a world series. you have to develop them, hope they come of age at the same time, keep the right ones, and add complimentary free agents at the right positions if they are available. There is no evidence though that this method is a better or more consistent way to the world series than being free agent heavy, and adding complimentary young talent. Both ways have won world series as of late. One is certainly more fiscally responsible but what do I care about that, we pay some of the highest ticket prices in the league and last I checked I'm not the cubs accountant. The one for sure thing though is that the bottom up method takes a heck of a lot longer and the latter method is probably not sustainable.

 

The best method is probably to add key amateur talent and good free agents. I wouldnt classify this years free agent acquisitions as 'good' because its been more like dumpster diving. There is no reason why we cant add amatuer talent like we have this year and sign one or two big free agents. (again I will feel alot better about this if we sign cespedes) Financially it makes great sense because the savings from playing younger positions players with big time talent offsets each other.

The Cubs obviously need to follow all of these talent acquisition routes. But when they take the plunge on a big free agent, it needs to be on a guy (or guys) that won't be well into a decline phase (and be a drag on the payroll) by the time the young guys are ready to make a real impact.

 

Cespedes fits the profile (provided you're sold on his talent) because he's only 26.

 

I think nuts and gum has it right. This is certainly going to suck. Cespedes would make me more hopeful of competing. If Rizzo or Jackson come up, meh those guys will need some seasoning before becoming fulltime players. It may be easier on the eyes to see rookies getting playing time but it still doesnt change the fact that there will be significant growing pains and little to run production.

Nobody is arguing against the notion that a rebuilding year will be painful. The argument is about whether the rebuilding year was necessary in the first place.

[davell]

Nobody likes the rebuilding process. But it's necessary.

 

I wouldn't go that far. There were ways to make this team a fringe contender in 2012 without handing out bad contracts.

Could you please expand that thought somewhat? I'm definitely curious since you're not talking Pujols/Fielder/Darvish/CJ/Reyes type guys......Trade route, I'm guessing?

[davearm2]

Nobody likes the rebuilding process. But it's necessary.

 

I wouldn't go that far. There were ways to make this team a fringe contender in 2012 without handing out bad contracts.

Go on. Which free agent contracts did you wish the Cubs had handed out this offseason?

 

Of the biggies, CJ Wilson's deal is the easiest to defend, but that price almost certainly wasn't available to the Cubs.

 

Reyes?

Fielder?

Pujols?

[questionmarkgrace]

I want to see progress. We NEED to see progress. Wins and losses don't matter to me in 2012. We're not winning it all, so it shouldn't matter to anyone. We need to see solid development from our "core", which is Castro, Brett, and Rizzo for now. We need to see progress in the minors from a slew of guys that we talk about in the minors forum all the time. We need to add a couple more guys to the "core" group between now and next offseason. And we need to have an excellent draft and IFA signing period. If all these things can occur, next offseason and the following season will have a much different feel than 2012 does. And with the group we have making the decisions, I think it's not only possible, but likely.

 

 

Progress from the minors isnt hindered by signing free agents though. Its not like spending on a free agent hinders us from spending on amateur talent now that there is a cap in place. Also there was no reason we cant sign a young talented free agent like cepedes, fielder, or Darvish and see lots of progress from the minors. Then in two years be ready to compete for the next five. What I'm getting at is that I think we missed a shot to compete in two years by not signing a young superstar talent. and now we are looking at four to five years before we can compete at the earliest.

[mookie]

Rinse. Repeat. We need some [expletive] baseball STAT!

[Bryants Disco Ball]

and now we are looking at four to five years before we can compete at the earliest.

 

Wow. Really? We aren't looking at four or five years at the EARLIEST before we can compete. I actually think we win the World Series within five years. This offseason has been great even if not everybody sees it. But in five years, everyone will look back and realize Theo and the boys knew exactly what they were doing.

[A New Era]

I want to see progress. We NEED to see progress. Wins and losses don't matter to me in 2012. We're not winning it all, so it shouldn't matter to anyone. We need to see solid development from our "core", which is Castro, Brett, and Rizzo for now. We need to see progress in the minors from a slew of guys that we talk about in the minors forum all the time. We need to add a couple more guys to the "core" group between now and next offseason. And we need to have an excellent draft and IFA signing period. If all these things can occur, next offseason and the following season will have a much different feel than 2012 does. And with the group we have making the decisions, I think it's not only possible, but likely.

 

 

Progress from the minors isnt hindered by signing free agents though. Its not like spending on a free agent hinders us from spending on amateur talent now that there is a cap in place. Also there was no reason we cant sign a young talented free agent like cepedes, fielder, or Darvish and see lots of progress from the minors. Then in two years be ready to compete for the next five. What I'm getting at is that I think we missed a shot to compete in two years by not signing a young superstar talent. and now we are looking at four to five years before we can compete at the earliest.

 

I don't know about four to five years. This offseason has been good. As far as talent given vs. talent taken in. I view more positively the futures of Rizzo vs Cashner, Torreyes vs. nothing, the crapshoot of Stewart vs. the crapshoot of Colvin. If the men in charge keep building up the assets as well as they have this offseason, then you'll have more pieces to make that trade for a guy becoming too expensive for a small market team. I think in 2 years maybe if a big free agent doesn't become available that fills our holes, don't be surprised if Theo and co go for a big trade with all the assets they've built up. They are in asset building mode right now. And we have a fairly decent core that is just about to hit MLB with castro, jackson, and Rizzo. It won't be painful to me in the slightest, because it's gonna be fun watching a new talented core of guys grow into their primes. I am fully confident Theo and Jed have a plan to build around what they view as the next great Cubs team.