What is the best pitching year of all time?

[TruffleShuffle]

was reading a bill simmons article that made a case for verlander as mvp this year, and it got me thinking - what is the best pitching year of all time? is it pedro martinez' 1999? he went 23-4 with a 2.07 era, pitching his home games in one of the better hitters' parks in the game, and played in the stronger league with the dominant yankees in his division. his FIP was an absurd 1.39, which was more than 3 runs below the league average. for the year, he was 80 runs better than average and 100 runs better than replacement. he was worth about 12 wins, according to fangraphs.

 

i don't know if that is the best ever, but it is pretty [expletive] great.

[NOLA]

Orel Hershiser, 1988

W/L: 23-8

ERA: .226

CG: 15

SHO: 8

WHIP: 1.052

59 1/3 consecutive scoreless inning streak

[TruffleShuffle]

if his ERA was just over two-tenths of a run then he definitely had the best pitching season of all time.

[OleMissCub]

Pedro certainly had the best in our lifetime.

 

Probably second to him in our lifetime would be Maddog's 1994 when he was 16-6, 1.56 ERA, 10 CG, 3 SHO, 271 ERA+

 

In recent history I'd go with Bob Gibson's 1968, 22-9, 1.12 ERA, 13 SHO, 258 ERA+

 

In the old history I'd say it's easily Walter Johnson's 1913, 36-7, 1.14 ERA, 346 IP, 11 SHO, 259 ERA+

[mcgoobs]

Steve Carlton's 1972 season should be mentioned somewhere in that discussion.

 

346 IP (#2 was Fergie Jenkins at 289)

30 CG (#2 was Jenkins again at 23)

1.97 ERA

182 ERA+

2.01 FIP (average for the year was 3.86)

12.2 WAR (#2 pitcher was Bob Gibson at 7.6)

 

What he lacked in ERA vs the league he made up for in simple raw innings pitched.

[OleMissCub]

it's hilarious that less than 40 years ago you had people throwing 30 CG's. The premier complete game artist of our time is Halladay and he only has 65 for his career.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNFloPq_WNY

 

That man was the man. To dominate like he did in that division, that park, and in that era is unbelievable. The only flaw stacking him up historically is IP. It's the most dominant season in my lifetime along with Clemens' '97 with the Blue Jays, which doesn't get talked about enough as a historically great season.

[OleMissCub]

freaking MLB..not allowing their stuff on YouTube yet. Damn near every other sport allows it now. They understand the value of free advertising for their product.

[Clem Fandango]

MLB Network's Prime 9 did an episode on the best pitching seasons of all time and I want to say Pedro's 1999 was first? If it wasn't first it was definitely 2nd

 

His 2000 campaign was probably better though, but he had less wins and strikeouts and as a result people think his 1999 is better.

 

1999: 23-4 2.07 ERA 213.1 IP 5 CG 1 SHO 313 K 0.92 WHIP 243 ERA+

2000: 18-6 1.74 ERA 217.0 IP 7 CG 4 SHO 284 K 0.73 WHIP 291 ERA+

[NCCubFan]

MLB Network's Prime 9 did an episode on the best pitching seasons of all time and I want to say Pedro's 1999 was first? If it wasn't first it was definitely 2nd

You have the right pitcher but are off by one year.

9) Steve Carlton – 1972; (27 – 10; 1.97 ERA; ERA+ 182; 30 CG, 8 SHO, 346 IP/ 257 H; 310 K/ 87 BB; 0.993 WHIP)

 

8) Ron Guidry – 1978: (25 – 3; 1.74 ERA; ERA+ 208; 16 CG, 9 SHO; 273 IP/ 187 H; 248 K/ 72 BB; 0.946 WHIP)

 

7) Greg Maddux – 1995: (19 – 2; 1.63 ERA; ERA+ 262; 10 CG; 3 SHO; 209 IP/ 147 H; 181 K/ 23 BB; 0.811 WHIP)

 

6) Sandy Koufax – 1965; (26 – 8; 2.04 ERA; ERA+ 160; 27 CG, 8 SHO: 335 IP/ 216 H; 382 K/ 71 BB; 0.855 WHIP)

 

5) Christy Mathewson – 1908; (37 – 11; 1.43; ERA+ 168; 34 CG; 11 SHO; 390 IP; 285 H; 259 K/ 42 BB; 0.837 WHIP)

 

4) Dwight Gooden – 1985; (24 – 4; 1.53 ERA; ERA+ 228; 16 CG, 8 SHO; 276 IP/ 198 H; 268 K/ 69 BB; 0.965 WHIP)

 

3) Bob Gibson – 1968; (22 – 9; 1.12 ERA: ERA+ 258; 28 CG, 13 SHO, 304 IP/ 198 H; 268 K/ 62 BB; 0.853 WHIP)

 

2) Walter Johnson – 1913; (36 – 7; 1.14 ERA; ERA+ 259; 29 CG, 11 SHO; 346 IP 232 H, 243 K, 38 BB; 0.780 WHIP)

 

1) Pedro Martinez – 2000; (18 – 6; 1.74 ERA; ERA+ 291; 7 CG, 4 SHO; 217 IP/ 128 H; 284 K/ 32 BB; 0.737 WHIP)

[rocket]

284 k's to 32 bb's? jesus

[Little Slide Rooter]

Anyone from the deadball era should probably be seperated.

[Rob]

Anyone from the deadball era should probably be seperated.

 

Hell no.

 

Old Hoss Radbourn's achievement goes beyond wins. How the hell did he keep his arm attached to throw so many innings?

[Clem Fandango]

Anyone from the deadball era should probably be seperated.

 

Hell no.

 

Old Hoss Radbourn's achievement goes beyond wins. How the hell did he keep his arm attached to throw so many innings?

 

You can say that about damn near every pitcher up until the late 80's.

 

Did technology, money, and medical advancements ruin the age of the 300 IP starter? There were so many guys who could do that like it was nothing. What happened to our baseball players that has them not doing that? Owners worried about their investment? Advanced medical technology picks up on smaller injuries that guys used to pitch through?

 

Wasn't there also a switch over to a 5-man rotation some time in the 80's? Weren't clubs usually ran with a 4-man rotation prior to that?

[SABR Gamer]

Anyone from the deadball era should probably be seperated.

 

Hell no.

 

Old Hoss Radbourn's achievement goes beyond wins. How the hell did he keep his arm attached to throw so many innings?

 

You can say that about damn near every pitcher up until the late 80's.

 

Did technology, money, and medical advancements ruin the age of the 300 IP starter? There were so many guys who could do that like it was nothing. What happened to our baseball players that has them not doing that? Owners worried about their investment? Advanced medical technology picks up on smaller injuries that guys used to pitch through?

 

Wasn't there also a switch over to a 5-man rotation some time in the 80's? Weren't clubs usually ran with a 4-man rotation prior to that?

 

Guys throw a hell of a lot harder now on a regular basis. Plus with the emphasis on offense there aren't as many free outs in the 7-9 batters as there were back then, so you have to bring it against every hitter. Your arm gets no let up at the end of the order to take 5 mph off of your fastball.

 

Those are a couple factors why throwing 300 innings is suicide today and why they did it so often in the past.

[rocket]

the biography on radbourn's 59 win season is a great book. the innings took a toll on his career, especially since he often pitched many days consecutively. even if you're throwing junk (radbourn's k/9 rate that year was nearly 6, so his pitches had some life to them), 678 innings in a year is insanity, and the book goes into great detail how much pain he was constantly in.

[TruffleShuffle]

he lives on as a great tweeter:

 

In my day, if a Reb division wanted to indicate they were surrendering, they would bat A. Pierzynski fourth.

[Guest]

In 1985 Doc was 20. He could have been one of the best ever if it weren't for cocaine.

[TruffleShuffle]

In 1985 Doc was 20. He could have been one of the best ever if it weren't for cocaine.

 

throwing 500 major league innings at age 19/20 probably didn't help either.

[imb]

MLB Network's Prime 9 did an episode on the best pitching seasons of all time and I want to say Pedro's 1999 was first? If it wasn't first it was definitely 2nd

You have the right pitcher but are off by one year.

9) Steve Carlton – 1972; (27 – 10; 1.97 ERA; ERA+ 182; 30 CG, 8 SHO, 346 IP/ 257 H; 310 K/ 87 BB; 0.993 WHIP)

 

8) Ron Guidry – 1978: (25 – 3; 1.74 ERA; ERA+ 208; 16 CG, 9 SHO; 273 IP/ 187 H; 248 K/ 72 BB; 0.946 WHIP)

 

7) Greg Maddux – 1995: (19 – 2; 1.63 ERA; ERA+ 262; 10 CG; 3 SHO; 209 IP/ 147 H; 181 K/ 23 BB; 0.811 WHIP)

 

6) Sandy Koufax – 1965; (26 – 8; 2.04 ERA; ERA+ 160; 27 CG, 8 SHO: 335 IP/ 216 H; 382 K/ 71 BB; 0.855 WHIP)

 

5) Christy Mathewson – 1908; (37 – 11; 1.43; ERA+ 168; 34 CG; 11 SHO; 390 IP; 285 H; 259 K/ 42 BB; 0.837 WHIP)

 

4) Dwight Gooden – 1985; (24 – 4; 1.53 ERA; ERA+ 228; 16 CG, 8 SHO; 276 IP/ 198 H; 268 K/ 69 BB; 0.965 WHIP)

 

3) Bob Gibson – 1968; (22 – 9; 1.12 ERA: ERA+ 258; 28 CG, 13 SHO, 304 IP/ 198 H; 268 K/ 62 BB; 0.853 WHIP)

 

2) Walter Johnson – 1913; (36 – 7; 1.14 ERA; ERA+ 259; 29 CG, 11 SHO; 346 IP 232 H, 243 K, 38 BB; 0.780 WHIP)

 

1) Pedro Martinez – 2000; (18 – 6; 1.74 ERA; ERA+ 291; 7 CG, 4 SHO; 217 IP/ 128 H; 284 K/ 32 BB; 0.737 WHIP)

 

are the people that voted koufax over maddux aware of what offense was like in 1995?

[OleMissCub]

You can say that about damn near every pitcher up until the late 80's.

 

Did technology, money, and medical advancements ruin the age of the 300 IP starter? There were so many guys who could do that like it was nothing. What happened to our baseball players that has them not doing that? Owners worried about their investment? Advanced medical technology picks up on smaller injuries that guys used to pitch through?

 

Wasn't there also a switch over to a 5-man rotation some time in the 80's? Weren't clubs usually ran with a 4-man rotation prior to that?

 

We still have guys today that could manage that many innings without their arms falling off. Basically in the old days you HAD to be that guy to be a starter or you just didn't start, period.

[XZero771679666304]

You can say that about damn near every pitcher up until the late 80's.

 

Did technology, money, and medical advancements ruin the age of the 300 IP starter? There were so many guys who could do that like it was nothing. What happened to our baseball players that has them not doing that? Owners worried about their investment? Advanced medical technology picks up on smaller injuries that guys used to pitch through?

 

Wasn't there also a switch over to a 5-man rotation some time in the 80's? Weren't clubs usually ran with a 4-man rotation prior to that?

 

We still have guys today that could manage that many innings without their arms falling off. Basically in the old days you HAD to be that guy to be a starter or you just didn't start, period.

 

There are many factor that have played into starters throwing fewer innings. The advent of specialist relievers, increased reliance on the bullpen, stiffer offensive competition (more balanced and deep lineups with players who work counts and drive up pitch counts), a better understanding of the stress pitching puts on a body and a correlating desire from owners/management to protect their increasingly heavy investments.

 

Also, there has probably been a shift away from a "gotta be a man and finish what you started" mentality where coming out of a game was seen as a sign of weakness rather than a strategic move.

 

And let's be honest, guys just plain throw harder now. A lot harder. Walter Johnson's fastball, a pitch virtually singular in its day with regard to velocity, "hissed with danger" in the low 90's (by the best measurements of the day). The hardest throwers of the first five or six decades of Major League Baseball's history would almost certainly be considered soft tossers in today's game. As recently as 25 years ago guys who hit triple digits were relative rarities to be marveled at. Now every team has one (or two).

 

Long story short, the game has just evolved. It's apples and oranges at this point.

[Benchwarmer]

I'll take Gibson's 1968 season. The guy pitched in 5 games, where he went over 9.0 innings and in one game went 12.1 innings. He had 13 shutouts and 28 complete games out of 34. That's pretty special. If you want to have some fun, check out what Elroy Face did in 1959..he won 18 games and did not start one game.

 

I hate the quality start concept. This was invented so pitchers who couldn't finish what they start would feel good about themselves. A complete game is simply doing your job, saving the bullpen and keeping your team in the game. We need more of that and less of the 5.2 inning guys.

 

I don't know if pitchers are throwing harder than they did 40-50 years ago, because there were a number of guys who could bring it. The difference I see is that a number of current pitchers get 2 strikes and can't put the batter away. Jim Palmer used to say 'I only have so many pitches on a given day and I'm not going to waste one, because I don't know where the limit is.' BTW..Jim Palmer never gave up a grand slam.

 

Please don't confuse the fastest pitcher with being a good pitcher. If you only throw a 100 mph and forget location or have another pitch, you won't last long.

[TruffleShuffle]

you don't get a quality start for pitching 5.2 innings.

[JimSorgi]

Please don't confuse the fastest pitcher with being a good pitcher. If you only throw a 100 mph and forget location or have another pitch, you won't last long.

Amazing stuff. Your posts teach me so much about baseball.