Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-1-11

[toonsterwu]

Liria's very intriguing to me. He reminds me of a ... better Robert Hernandez (it's easy to forget, pre-suspension and inconsistencies, Robert Hernandez was fairly intriguing as a young arm who had some success at an early age). He's probably the 2nd most intriguing arm to me in that talented Boise group (I'd go Wells/Liria, followed in some order by Cruz/Wang/Kim/Reed (probably that order as of now, maybe flip Kim/Wang around)).

[toonsterwu]

Hayden Simpson doesn't even make it out of the second. Ugh.

 

jung and francescon followed and were each terrible... peoria is down 15-4 in the 5th inning.

 

When all is said and done, Simpson might end up a bigger waste of a 1st round pick than Mark Pawalek.

 

Rhee, on the other hand tossed a 7 inning complete game shutout with 6 K 1 BB 2 H.

 

That's what happens when your scouting director makes reach picks in the first round. I believe Pawalek, Colvin and Simpson were considered reaches.

 

As has been noted, Pawelek was a Stockstill pick, and was considered a guy who fell. IIRC, there was a pre-draft deal in place.

 

Colvin was a half round high. Most indications, to the best of my recollection, was that, on the day of the draft, he was likely to go 1st, just more late first (with a chance that he could fall to the supplemental). IIRC, one of the teams hot for him were the White Sox.

 

Simpson was either a half-round to 1 round high, depending on which rumors/spec you believe. There were a couple teams that were rumored high on him. Off the top, Rays/Angels come to mind.

 

I do believe that it might be close to time to shut down Simpson, though. I understand the opposing argument - he doesn't gain much by sitting a year, but what does he gain by struggling this much right now. I'm not sure it's worth it anymore. He's gotten in some work, let him get some time to rest/get stronger/put back lost weight and contemplate giving him a go in the Arizona Fall League.

 

I doubt they'll go that route, but that's what I'd do.

[TruffleShuffle]

boise is up 9-0... lopez and Klafczynski have had big games, each going 3-3 with a walk and a home run. reggie golden is 0-1 with 3 walks. really nice outing for kyler burke so far... line out to center and 5 swinging strikeouts.

[iowahawkeyes89]

Really encouraged by Goldens patience. As mentioned, his k's are less of a problem if he can hit for power and get on base at a good rate.

[TruffleShuffle]

bummer that burke struggled in the 8th (3 hits, 1 bb, 2 wp, 1 k)... hopefully missing some bats in this outing helps give him some confidence.

 

golden walked for a fourth time... the rest of the hawks have walked just 3 times so it's not like their opposition just can't throw the ball over the plate.

[Guest]

Liria's very intriguing to me. He reminds me of a ... better Robert Hernandez (it's easy to forget, pre-suspension and inconsistencies, Robert Hernandez was fairly intriguing as a young arm who had some success at an early age). He's probably the 2nd most intriguing arm to me in that talented Boise group (I'd go Wells/Liria, followed in some order by Cruz/Wang/Kim/Reed (probably that order as of now, maybe flip Kim/Wang around)).

 

Depending on your definition of intriguing (high ceiling?), I think you have to have Reed ahead of Wang and Kim. But yeah, I think Liria is the most interesting starter at Boise besides Ben Wells. Wish there had been an opening for him in Peoria earlier.

 

I definitely agree with you that you have to shut down Simpson at this point.

[Guest]

really like what penalver and candelario are doing in the DSL, hitting for solid average and showing great walk rates along with some doubles power. hopefully they'll be ready to handle the AZL next year at age 18.

 

I think there's a solid chance that at least Candelario starts next year at Boise.

[craig]

I am more interested to see how Simpson finishes the season and pitches next year. A bad case of Mono can be devastating for an athlete and takes a long time to come back from.

 

It could well be that Wilken and company were wholly justified in picking Simpson where they did. However, there probably will come a point in Simpson's struggles where I have to wonder whether he will ever get back to 100%. Simpson may never get back to that point.

 

As I've said before, I'm willing to give him a pass on this season. He will have the entire offseason to work out, get back into playing shape, and prove himself next season. However, I am concerned.

 

The going assumption has been that he lost all of his stuff because he lost all his strength with mono last year.

 

If so, there's the thought that he will rebuild his strength and will regain his velocity.

 

I guess I have a concern that he'll be able to regain his strength and size, but I wonder if he'll ever regain his velocity, and that their might be something other than mono at issue with his arm. By BA account he was throwing 94 or whatever in his first start in cold Peoria. A couple starts later he came out with a tight shoulder. Young pitchers have arm problems all the time, whether they had mono last year or not. I don't know anything, but I do admit I have a fear that it's an injured arm rather than mono that is killing him.

 

I also admit that the session that sold Wilken on him last year, IIRC he pitched a winning game throwing in the mid/upper 90's on friday or Saturday, and then came back and did that in relief again on Monday. Not normal rest. It's possible that pitching short-rest and high-pitch-counts like that in the playoffs damaged his arm, and the mono has not so much to do with it.

 

Hope it really is all the mono. In any case, by next season I don't think we'll be able to keep blaming it on mono anymore.

[toonsterwu]

Liria's very intriguing to me. He reminds me of a ... better Robert Hernandez (it's easy to forget, pre-suspension and inconsistencies, Robert Hernandez was fairly intriguing as a young arm who had some success at an early age). He's probably the 2nd most intriguing arm to me in that talented Boise group (I'd go Wells/Liria, followed in some order by Cruz/Wang/Kim/Reed (probably that order as of now, maybe flip Kim/Wang around)).

 

Depending on your definition of intriguing (high ceiling?), I think you have to have Reed ahead of Wang and Kim. But yeah, I think Liria is the most interesting starter at Boise besides Ben Wells. Wish there had been an opening for him in Peoria earlier.

 

I definitely agree with you that you have to shut down Simpson at this point.

 

in terms of ceiling, it's probably something like Wells/Reed/Liria/Cruz/Kim/Wang (a bit hesitant to mark the last three that definitively, but short of it is, on ceiling, I think you have to slide Reed up a ton and chalk up any issues now as growing pains and hope that he gets over them).

 

I don't know where to fit Starling Peralta in that grouping though (and can get away with not doing it since he's in Arizona for now).

 

It was just more personal intrigue, which is a vague and vacuous comment. I guess, more of a who I would put my money on in regards to reaching the bigs type of idiotic comment.

 

As a random aside, I wouldn't mind seeing a couple of these guys move up to Peoria later this year, assuming an arm or two from Peoria goes up to Daytona.

[toonsterwu]

really like what penalver and candelario are doing in the DSL, hitting for solid average and showing great walk rates along with some doubles power. hopefully they'll be ready to handle the AZL next year at age 18.

 

I think there's a solid chance that at least Candelario starts next year at Boise.

 

We could have a really dynamic group of LA guys in XST, far more dynamic than recent crops. I wonder if Daniel Sanchez comes over. Still a bit curious to learn how the Cubs made the decisions to assign which guys to certain squads. Used to think it was high talent/low talent type of thing, as most reported, but Penalver and Candelario are clearly two of our better DSL guys and they are on 2.

[Guest]

Liria's very intriguing to me. He reminds me of a ... better Robert Hernandez (it's easy to forget, pre-suspension and inconsistencies, Robert Hernandez was fairly intriguing as a young arm who had some success at an early age). He's probably the 2nd most intriguing arm to me in that talented Boise group (I'd go Wells/Liria, followed in some order by Cruz/Wang/Kim/Reed (probably that order as of now, maybe flip Kim/Wang around)).

 

Depending on your definition of intriguing (high ceiling?), I think you have to have Reed ahead of Wang and Kim. But yeah, I think Liria is the most interesting starter at Boise besides Ben Wells. Wish there had been an opening for him in Peoria earlier.

 

I definitely agree with you that you have to shut down Simpson at this point.

 

in terms of ceiling, it's probably something like Wells/Reed/Liria/Cruz/Kim/Wang (a bit hesitant to mark the last three that definitively, but short of it is, on ceiling, I think you have to slide Reed up a ton and chalk up any issues now as growing pains and hope that he gets over them).

 

I don't know where to fit Starling Peralta in that grouping though (and can get away with not doing it since he's in Arizona for now).

 

It was just more personal intrigue, which is a vague and vacuous comment. I guess, more of a who I would put my money on in regards to reaching the bigs type of idiotic comment.

 

As a random aside, I wouldn't mind seeing a couple of these guys move up to Peoria later this year, assuming an arm or two from Peoria goes up to Daytona.

 

I'd have Peralta ahead of all but Wells and Reed in terms of ceiling. I would love to see Liria and Peralta bumped up one level each.

[Guancous]

I am more interested to see how Simpson finishes the season and pitches next year. A bad case of Mono can be devastating for an athlete and takes a long time to come back from.

 

It could well be that Wilken and company were wholly justified in picking Simpson where they did. However, there probably will come a point in Simpson's struggles where I have to wonder whether he will ever get back to 100%. Simpson may never get back to that point.

 

As I've said before, I'm willing to give him a pass on this season. He will have the entire offseason to work out, get back into playing shape, and prove himself next season. However, I am concerned.

 

The going assumption has been that he lost all of his stuff because he lost all his strength with mono last year.

 

Please say Simpson does not have a labrum issue because it sounds like a bad shoulder.

 

If so, there's the thought that he will rebuild his strength and will regain his velocity.

 

I guess I have a concern that he'll be able to regain his strength and size, but I wonder if he'll ever regain his velocity, and that their might be something other than mono at issue with his arm. By BA account he was throwing 94 or whatever in his first start in cold Peoria. A couple starts later he came out with a tight shoulder. Young pitchers have arm problems all the time, whether they had mono last year or not. I don't know anything, but I do admit I have a fear that it's an injured arm rather than mono that is killing him.

 

I also admit that the session that sold Wilken on him last year, IIRC he pitched a winning game throwing in the mid/upper 90's on friday or Saturday, and then came back and did that in relief again on Monday. Not normal rest. It's possible that pitching short-rest and high-pitch-counts like that in the playoffs damaged his arm, and the mono has not so much to do with it.

 

Hope it really is all the mono. In any case, by next season I don't think we'll be able to keep blaming it on mono anymore.

[BearClaw]

players should never be knee-jerk evaluated, meaning on a game-by-game basis

 

as far as the term "prospect" being thrown around, I have learned that neither I, any internet RAG service i.e Baseball America, or any wanna-be baseball analyst really knows what a prospect is

 

the people in the front offices of professional baseball determine who is and isn't a prospect

 

for everyone on the outside looking in, patience is needed

 

there are so many variables that make a major leaguer, mostly timing and luck

 

there is a fine line between the talent and tools of an A ball player vs. a ML player

 

in other words, they are all good players

[Guest]

Starling Peralta leads the AZL in Ks and Hunter Ackerman is 3rd.

 

I love Golden's line - .313/.441/.500/.941 and an 11/13 BB/K ratio.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Starling Peralta leads the AZL in Ks and Hunter Ackerman is 3rd.

 

I love Golden's line - .313/.441/.500/.941 and an 11/13 BB/K ratio.

 

Do we know as far as current players, what is Goldens ceiling? Any fair comparisons this early? When I have limited info, I go by the name, and Reggie Golden sounds like a speedy leadoff hitter, which I guess isn't the case. Then again, until recently, I thought that Freddie Freeman was black, so that system is quite flawed.

[Scotti]

Hayden Simpson doesn't even make it out of the second. Ugh.

 

jung and francescon followed and were each terrible... peoria is down 15-4 in the 5th inning.

 

When all is said and done, Simpson might end up a bigger waste of a 1st round pick than Mark Pawalek.

 

Rhee, on the other hand tossed a 7 inning complete game shutout with 6 K 1 BB 2 H.

 

Just thought I'd note the irony here (and not just in this post but the entire thread). Rhee was a good prospect who got injured and has needed more than two years to recover and, oh boy, "on the other hand" folks get jazzed because he had a good start.

 

Simpson is a good prospect who is struggling through what should be considered his recovery year and somehow he's going to be a bust. My son did a double dip mono in grade school. Much like Simpson he got sick, tried to recover too quickly and then was bedridden for nearly two months. Mono in itself can be bad but the double dip is nasty stuff. Clinically the second go around is still the first case but it has had time to dig in deep while the patient it pushing him/herself too hard (and lowering their immunity).

 

By Simpson's account he started the year still 8 pounds under his playing weight (175). From the Cubs standpoint, they would have had him adding at least 10 pounds in the off-season so he started the season at least 18 pounds under what he should have been starting at. The guy just isn't the same guy we drafted nor is he the guy that he should have been at this point. That doesn't mean that he won't be. He just needs to add to his stamina and add weight. The stamina you add by pitching and the weight you add in the off-season.

 

To add to the irony, Simpson, like Rhee, isn't expected to be a flame thrower so having him learn to pitch without his best and sharpest stuff is, IMO, a good thing. Both guys are more four pitch, command and control guys than guys who tickle the gun. As long as he isn't doing physical harm then having him get through a full season (and the requisite first year dead arm periods) is all to the plus.

[Scotti]

Starling Peralta leads the AZL in Ks and Hunter Ackerman is 3rd.

 

I love Golden's line - .313/.441/.500/.941 and an 11/13 BB/K ratio.

 

Do we know as far as current players, what is Goldens ceiling? Any fair comparisons this early? When I have limited info, I go by the name, and Reggie Golden sounds like a speedy leadoff hitter, which I guess isn't the case. Then again, until recently, I thought that Freddie Freeman was black, so that system is quite flawed.

 

Raw player. Very strong. Swing (from video) reminds me of Glen Allen Hill (Craig will now forever call him Reg Golden Hill). Good speed but he's had problems with his hamstrings and may not keep it as he grows. Golden didn't attend a premiere program and, like Hill, he's reportedly very raw (Hill struggled for a long time in the minors and bumbled through the majors basically until he was traded to the Cubs).

[ChiefsVoice]

All of Simpson's runs last night were on Alcantara (again). He would have been out of the 2nd inning with the Chiefs up 3-0 but Alcantara made a throwing error on a double play ball that brought 2 home and since you cannot assume a DP the runs were earned.

 

Then we got homered on a blatant error at third base that was ruled a 2 run double (coaches lobbied for a scoring change after the game for 5 minutes to no avail)...Simpson left (35 pitches in the inning, had no choice to take him out) with 2 on and 2 out and Jung promptly gave up a 450 foot bomb.

 

So yes the numbers were bad at 6r in 1.2ip but Simpson's outing last night was not that bad for those that saw it in person. He threw strikes and changed up his pitches, just got no help from his defense, the scorer or the bullpen.

 

That said, he has to be able to pitch around mistakes and didnt last night with a walk right after the error.

 

Just wanted to take you guys inside the box score a bit since the line itself was not a fair representation...Ditto on the Francescon line where none of the runs in the 6th would have scored if the base umpire was smart enough to move on a line drive headed right for him. Would have ended the inning scoreless instead the next batter crushed a 3 run homer.

[RammyFanny]

Starling Peralta leads the AZL in Ks and Hunter Ackerman is 3rd.

 

I love Golden's line - .313/.441/.500/.941 and an 11/13 BB/K ratio.

 

Do we know as far as current players, what is Goldens ceiling? Any fair comparisons this early? When I have limited info, I go by the name, and Reggie Golden sounds like a speedy leadoff hitter, which I guess isn't the case. Then again, until recently, I thought that Freddie Freeman was black, so that system is quite flawed.

This should be on the Draft Board, but I assumed Taiwan Easterling was some sort of thin asian reminiscient of Taguchi. Turns out he's....not.