Missing: ARam's power

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't understand how that scenario isn't horrific.

[davearm2]

Ugh, gross. Speed declines so much quicker and more dramatically.

 

Yup, but there's also more of them. So when one starts to decline you can just dump them for the next one.

 

I will never advocate for having a speedy team if that will not lead to winning. I want the Cubs to win first. But if it gets to the point where having speed/defense is a viable way to play, I don't think that's a bad thing for the sport either.

 

More of them? There's a handful of good fast players. Speed is absolutely worthless if you can't hit and the majority of fast players cannot hit at a major league level.

 

That's my point. Right now you can only use the good ones. The ones who OPS 650-700 and have good speed and play good defense are bench players because they don't hit well enough to be in a starting lineup. Most of those type of players never even make the majors. If the average OPS of the league continues to go down though, those players will become more and more valuable. The fact that they can't hit much won't matter nearly as much because the rest of the league won't be hitting much either, and so teams will plug them in to use their other skills.

That's only true if the replacement-level fast guys you're describing are somehow immune to the factors that are causing the league-wide decline in OPS.

 

But if the replacement-level fast guys' OPSs are falling just like everyone else's, then their prospects haven't gotten any better.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't understand how that scenario isn't horrific.

 

What's horrific about it? Sure, scoring is down which is a negative. There are shorter ballgames (through both less hits and more incentives to find pitchers who throw strikes since walks would become much more valuable for an offense). This would lead to balls being put into play more and just more action on the field.

 

I don't want the game to try to push towards that, but the numbers are starting to show that the game is naturally heading that way and I have no problem with that. If it does though, the contracts for hitters who can hit for immense power might get even bigger though because they will be so rare to find.

 

Looking at the position by position numbers so far this year, just some really strange things. RF has been the best offensive position this year. Then 1B. Then a huge gap to CF. Then another decent gap until you finally get to what is considered an offensive position of LF which is tied with C. And then 3B, 2B, and SS are all clustered at the bottom. Very odd.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't understand how that scenario isn't horrific.

 

What's horrific about it? Sure, scoring is down which is a negative. There are shorter ballgames (through both less hits and more incentives to find pitchers who throw strikes since walks would become much more valuable for an offense). This would lead to balls being put into play more and just more action on the field.

 

I don't know how a game filled with more Juan Pierres and Scotty Podseseseses and Michael Bourns isn't horrific. Oh, yes, more thrilling action in the field...will they ground out to SS or to 2B this time?

[CubColtPacer]

Ugh, gross. Speed declines so much quicker and more dramatically.

 

Yup, but there's also more of them. So when one starts to decline you can just dump them for the next one.

 

I will never advocate for having a speedy team if that will not lead to winning. I want the Cubs to win first. But if it gets to the point where having speed/defense is a viable way to play, I don't think that's a bad thing for the sport either.

 

More of them? There's a handful of good fast players. Speed is absolutely worthless if you can't hit and the majority of fast players cannot hit at a major league level.

 

That's my point. Right now you can only use the good ones. The ones who OPS 650-700 and have good speed and play good defense are bench players because they don't hit well enough to be in a starting lineup. Most of those type of players never even make the majors. If the average OPS of the league continues to go down though, those players will become more and more valuable. The fact that they can't hit much won't matter nearly as much because the rest of the league won't be hitting much either, and so teams will plug them in to use their other skills.

That's only true if the replacement-level fast guys you're describing are somehow immune to the factors that are causing the league-wide decline in OPS.

 

But if the replacement-level fast guys' OPSs are falling just like everyone else's, then their prospects haven't gotten any better.

 

True, but those players tend to be immune to things like that just like their numbers tend to translate better from the minors to the majors or that their numbers don't swing up and down as much going from hitters leagues to pitchers leagues in the minors. Putting the ball in play and using your speed does tend to leave you immune from those sorts of effects (both positive and negative).

[Banedon]

N&G is gonna have nightmares of lineups with 8 grinders.

[Sammy Sofa]

I already do.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't understand how that scenario isn't horrific.

 

What's horrific about it? Sure, scoring is down which is a negative. There are shorter ballgames (through both less hits and more incentives to find pitchers who throw strikes since walks would become much more valuable for an offense). This would lead to balls being put into play more and just more action on the field.

 

I don't know how a game filled with more Juan Pierres and Scotty Podseseseses and Michael Bourns isn't horrific. Oh, yes, more thrilling action in the field...will they ground out to SS or to 2B this time?

 

Michael Bourn is actually a great example. He's a somewhat frustrating player to watch right now. He does a lot of exciting things. He steals lots of bases at a good percentage. He plays great defense in CF. His batting average and OBP are both above league average (so he's hardly a guy who grounds out every time). If he's on your team though, you can't enjoy all those entertaining things because you know he's not a great player because he doesn't hit for enough power (although even that is in debate depending how much you value defense). If power continues to decline around the league, Bourn starts to stand out more because you know what he does is valuable to your team winning. I would love a combination of guys like Bourn and a few great power hitters. That would be a fun league.

[Sammy Sofa]

Bourn's career in Houston thus far:

 

.263 .332 .347 .679 84

 

Ye gads.

[UK1679666180]

He has a career filled with injuries and despite being in early 30s, has had an extensive career. I do fear all his injuries, advancing age could very well slow his bat speed to where he declines quicker rather gradual.

[Banedon]

I would love a combination of guys like Bourn and a few great power hitters. That would be a fun league.

 

I don't have the numbers to support this, but wasn't baseball far more popular during the steroid era, when home run records were falling left and right? I understand that some people, like yourself and maybe some others on the board, would like that type of game, but that doesn't mean it's good for the game if it doesn't appeal to the casual fans.

[Sammy Sofa]

I would love a combination of guys like Bourn and a few great power hitters. That would be a fun league.

 

I don't have the numbers to support this, but wasn't baseball far more popular during the steroid era, when home run records were falling left and right? I understand that some people, like yourself and maybe some others on the board, would like that type of game, but that doesn't mean it's good for the game if it doesn't appeal to the casual fans.

 

Yeah, I would have real doubts about baseball being able to come out OK from another "pitcher's era."

[CubColtPacer]

I would love a combination of guys like Bourn and a few great power hitters. That would be a fun league.

 

I don't have the numbers to support this, but wasn't baseball far more popular during the steroid era, when home run records were falling left and right? I understand that some people, like yourself and maybe some others on the board, would like that type of game, but that doesn't mean it's good for the game if it doesn't appeal to the casual fans.

 

By what measure? Attendance or relevance? I think attendance numbers were high during the 90's and 2000's for baseball (as with a lot of sports) but I would definitely say that baseball is less relevant than 20 years ago. And a large part of the complaint is that games simply take too long without enough action to support it.

[Sammy Sofa]

I would love a combination of guys like Bourn and a few great power hitters. That would be a fun league.

 

I don't have the numbers to support this, but wasn't baseball far more popular during the steroid era, when home run records were falling left and right? I understand that some people, like yourself and maybe some others on the board, would like that type of game, but that doesn't mean it's good for the game if it doesn't appeal to the casual fans.

 

By what measure? Attendance or relevance? I think attendance numbers were high during the 90's and 2000's for baseball (as with a lot of sports) but I would definitely say that baseball is less relevant than 20 years ago. And a large part of the complaint is that games simply take too long without enough action to support it.

 

And the most dynamic action in the game is due to power hitters.

[UK1679666180]

Like CCP, I'd rather see runs scored via balls put in play and everything that surrounds it. I still hate sacrifice out but I would rather see him hit and runs, extra bases, more aggressive offense rather than waiting for a 3 run home run twice a game.

 

Banedon, you're right that more prefer the long ball.

[CubColtPacer]

I would love a combination of guys like Bourn and a few great power hitters. That would be a fun league.

 

I don't have the numbers to support this, but wasn't baseball far more popular during the steroid era, when home run records were falling left and right? I understand that some people, like yourself and maybe some others on the board, would like that type of game, but that doesn't mean it's good for the game if it doesn't appeal to the casual fans.

 

By what measure? Attendance or relevance? I think attendance numbers were high during the 90's and 2000's for baseball (as with a lot of sports) but I would definitely say that baseball is less relevant than 20 years ago. And a large part of the complaint is that games simply take too long without enough action to support it.

 

And the most dynamic action in the game is due to power hitters.

 

That only happens about once every hour and a half though in a normal game. Not nearly enough for the attention span of most people.

[Sammy Sofa]

I would love a combination of guys like Bourn and a few great power hitters. That would be a fun league.

 

I don't have the numbers to support this, but wasn't baseball far more popular during the steroid era, when home run records were falling left and right? I understand that some people, like yourself and maybe some others on the board, would like that type of game, but that doesn't mean it's good for the game if it doesn't appeal to the casual fans.

 

By what measure? Attendance or relevance? I think attendance numbers were high during the 90's and 2000's for baseball (as with a lot of sports) but I would definitely say that baseball is less relevant than 20 years ago. And a large part of the complaint is that games simply take too long without enough action to support it.

 

And the most dynamic action in the game is due to power hitters.

 

That only happens about once every hour and a half though in a normal game. Not nearly enough for the attention span of most people.

 

It's still the biggest draw.

[Banedon]

And the most dynamic action in the game is due to power hitters.

 

That only happens about once every hour and a half though in a normal game. Not nearly enough for the attention span of most people.

 

It's still the biggest draw.

 

They don't show many stolen bases on Sportscenter.

[Sammy Sofa]

And most of those Web Gems? Those are mostly due to balls that are driven, not dinky little rollers to an infielder for the bajillionth time. Every so often you'll get someone doing something awesome with a ball off of a bunt or swinging bunt, but not usually.

[jersey cubs fan]

Like CCP, I'd rather see runs scored via balls put in play and everything that surrounds it. I still hate sacrifice out but I would rather see him hit and runs, extra bases, more aggressive offense rather than waiting for a 3 run home run twice a game.

 

Banedon, you're right that more prefer the long ball.

 

Hit and runs blow. It's just a way for managers to show they are trying to make things happen, and if it fails it's the players fault.

[UK1679666180]

Like CCP, I'd rather see runs scored via balls put in play and everything that surrounds it. I still hate sacrifice out but I would rather see him hit and runs, extra bases, more aggressive offense rather than waiting for a 3 run home run twice a game.

 

Banedon, you're right that more prefer the long ball.

 

Hit and runs blow. It's just a way for managers to show they are trying to make things happen, and if it fails it's the players fault.

 

Like a SB attempt the value can be questioned, but while watching the game, it is more exciting than stationary baserunner.

[imb]

david wright is OPSing .741 and it's still an ops+ of 108

[Little Slide Rooter]

N&G is gonna have nightmares of lineups with 8 grinders.

1B Blake DeWitt

2B Darwin Barney

SS Augie Ojeda

3B Ryan Freel

RF Reed Johnson

CF Tony Campana

LF Sam Fuld

C Koyie Hill

 

Managaer: Eric Byrnes

[bcl412]

N&G is gonna have nightmares of lineups with 8 grinders.

1B Blake DeWitt

2B Darwin Barney

SS Augie Ojeda

3B Ryan Freel

RF Reed Johnson

CF Tony Campana

LF Sam Fuld

C Koyie Hill

 

Managaer: Eric Byrnes

 

That's 60 wins or less of pure hustle.

[questionmarkgrace]

Aramis has lost a bit of power at the plate, that much is clear. But since he has never been a guy who swung at pitches in the right counts or, for that matter, in the strike zone; its all the more damaging. if he plans on being a major leaguer past next year he really needs to develop some discipline at the plate. That way he can key in on those pitches in the zone in hitters counts rather than the first pitch of every at bat.