Mets doing some spring cleaning?

[Sammy Sofa]

I am baffled as to how you think is this a good idea. The whole first paragraph was, quite honestly, nonsense. Because we don't know which prospects will pan out, or if the Cubs will be able to sign any good FA's, they should inexplicably waste resources on an old Beltran for half of a season? FTH?

The difference of opinion is simple: he feels the Cubs have a shot at competing this year if they get a significant upgrade at one position. You don't. Hence the varying perspectives.

 

If I felt the Cubs were one piece away AND I thought Beltran would stay healthy all year, I'd probably feel the same way. However, until I see some power from ARam, I don't think we're only missing one piece.

 

It still doesn't make any sense. I'm certainly not opposed to making a go at competing in a weak division this season (though I agree it would take more than one player unless Aramis AND Soto rebound), but I can't figure out why he would want to go after Beltran of all people instead of attempting something Garza-esque where you shell out for a player that can help now and in the future.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I am baffled as to how you think is this a good idea. The whole first paragraph was, quite honestly, nonsense. Because we don't know which prospects will pan out, or if the Cubs will be able to sign any good FA's, they should inexplicably waste resources on an old Beltran for half of a season? FTH?

The difference of opinion is simple: he feels the Cubs have a shot at competing this year if they get a significant upgrade at one position. You don't. Hence the varying perspectives.

 

If I felt the Cubs were one piece away AND I thought Beltran would stay healthy all year, I'd probably feel the same way. However, until I see some power from ARam, I don't think we're only missing one piece.

 

It seems that the main variance is that I think that our core as a whole is quite good, the one missing piece is a 3 hitter, being Beltran. I think Aramis will start hitting for power again, and even if he doesnt, we have Soriano, Pena, Soto and to a lesser extent, Byrd to do that. I dont see the holes that alot of people do, aside from the 3 hitter and 4-5 starters.

 

The only real problem I see with it it too many moving pieces, meaning that wed have to do something with Byrd or Fukudome.

[Sammy Sofa]

Why are you assuming Byrd and Soto are going to start hitting for significantly more power if Aramis doesn't?

 

And the only "real problem" you see with trading for Beltran is figuring out what to do with Byrd or Fukudome? Really?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I am baffled as to how you think is this a good idea. The whole first paragraph was, quite honestly, nonsense. Because we don't know which prospects will pan out, or if the Cubs will be able to sign any good FA's, they should inexplicably waste resources on an old Beltran for half of a season? FTH?

The difference of opinion is simple: he feels the Cubs have a shot at competing this year if they get a significant upgrade at one position. You don't. Hence the varying perspectives.

 

If I felt the Cubs were one piece away AND I thought Beltran would stay healthy all year, I'd probably feel the same way. However, until I see some power from ARam, I don't think we're only missing one piece.

 

It still doesn't make any sense. I'm certainly not opposed to making a go at competing in a weak division this season (though I agree it would take more than one player unless Aramis AND Soto rebound), but I can't figure out why he would want to go after Beltran of all people instead of attempting something Garza-esque where you shell out for a player that can help now and in the future.

 

I dont want to part with a Garza-esque prospect package. I would only really want to go after Beltran if it were a more reasonable price. Of course if King Felix were to become available, Id be willing to part with alot more.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Why are you assuming Byrd and Soto are going to start hitting for significantly more power if Aramis doesn't?

 

And the only "real problem" you see with trading for Beltran is figuring out what to do with Byrd or Fukudome? Really?

 

That and the injury history, yes. Again, its if we didnt have to empty out to much of the farm and the Mets would take something like what the A's took for Harden.

[Sammy Sofa]

I am baffled as to how you think is this a good idea. The whole first paragraph was, quite honestly, nonsense. Because we don't know which prospects will pan out, or if the Cubs will be able to sign any good FA's, they should inexplicably waste resources on an old Beltran for half of a season? FTH?

The difference of opinion is simple: he feels the Cubs have a shot at competing this year if they get a significant upgrade at one position. You don't. Hence the varying perspectives.

 

If I felt the Cubs were one piece away AND I thought Beltran would stay healthy all year, I'd probably feel the same way. However, until I see some power from ARam, I don't think we're only missing one piece.

 

It still doesn't make any sense. I'm certainly not opposed to making a go at competing in a weak division this season (though I agree it would take more than one player unless Aramis AND Soto rebound), but I can't figure out why he would want to go after Beltran of all people instead of attempting something Garza-esque where you shell out for a player that can help now and in the future.

 

I dont want to part with a Garza-esque prospect package. I would only really want to go after Beltran if it were a more reasonable price. Of course if King Felix were to become available, Id be willing to part with alot more.

 

You part with a Garza-esque prospect-package to get what you pay for; a player much more along the lines of what the Cubs need right now as opposed to a half-season rental. Beltran would "cost" less than Garza because you're only getting him for half a season, though the Mets are still going to demand a decent return because of his value and the position they're in needing to build for the future ASAP. The Cubs wouldn't be able to get him for peanuts.

[Guest]

N&G,

 

I think Beltran's cost might not be as high as you think. People are going to be scared about the injury history and it is only a half year rental. If the Mets are really in dire straits financially, they may be forced to dump the salary. In that case, it would be a buyer's market.

[KingCubsFan]

N&G,

 

I think Beltran's cost might not be as high as you think. People are going to be scared about the injury history and it is only a half year rental. If the Mets are really in dire straits financially, they may be forced to dump the salary. In that case, it would be a buyer's market.

Given the general lack of offense in baseball this year, I think Beltran's price could be pretty high for a one year rental.

[Sammy Sofa]

N&G,

 

I think Beltran's cost might not be as high as you think. People are going to be scared about the injury history and it is only a half year rental. If the Mets are really in dire straits financially, they may be forced to dump the salary. In that case, it would be a buyer's market.

Given the general lack of offense in baseball this year, I think Beltran's price could be pretty high for a one year rental.

 

Right. We have no idea which teams are going to be in the hunt around the deadline and someone like Beltran could still command a pretty high price for just half a season if he continues being hot. Sure, if he could be had for a song because of money issues, great, why not? But I seriously doubt that will be the case, and even if it is it's just going to increase the competition between the offers to get him.

[Tarver]

I am baffled as to how you think is this a good idea. The whole first paragraph was, quite honestly, nonsense. Because we don't know which prospects will pan out, or if the Cubs will be able to sign any good FA's, they should inexplicably waste resources on an old Beltran for half of a season? FTH?

The difference of opinion is simple: he feels the Cubs have a shot at competing this year if they get a significant upgrade at one position. You don't. Hence the varying perspectives.

 

If I felt the Cubs were one piece away AND I thought Beltran would stay healthy all year, I'd probably feel the same way. However, until I see some power from ARam, I don't think we're only missing one piece.

 

It seems that the main variance is that I think that our core as a whole is quite good, the one missing piece is a 3 hitter, being Beltran. I think Aramis will start hitting for power again, and even if he doesnt, we have Soriano, Pena, Soto and to a lesser extent, Byrd to do that. I dont see the holes that alot of people do, aside from the 3 hitter and 4-5 starters.

 

The only real problem I see with it it too many moving pieces, meaning that wed have to do something with Byrd or Fukudome.

 

They're only one or two pieces away if those pieces are Pujols and Halladay.

[jersey cubs fan]

It seems that the main variance is that I think that our core as a whole is quite good, the one missing piece is a 3 hitter, being Beltran.

 

If you need a real 3 hitter your core isn't quite good. Your 3 hitter is the core of your core.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I am baffled as to how you think is this a good idea. The whole first paragraph was, quite honestly, nonsense. Because we don't know which prospects will pan out, or if the Cubs will be able to sign any good FA's, they should inexplicably waste resources on an old Beltran for half of a season? FTH?

The difference of opinion is simple: he feels the Cubs have a shot at competing this year if they get a significant upgrade at one position. You don't. Hence the varying perspectives.

 

If I felt the Cubs were one piece away AND I thought Beltran would stay healthy all year, I'd probably feel the same way. However, until I see some power from ARam, I don't think we're only missing one piece.

 

It seems that the main variance is that I think that our core as a whole is quite good, the one missing piece is a 3 hitter, being Beltran. I think Aramis will start hitting for power again, and even if he doesnt, we have Soriano, Pena, Soto and to a lesser extent, Byrd to do that. I dont see the holes that alot of people do, aside from the 3 hitter and 4-5 starters.

 

The only real problem I see with it it too many moving pieces, meaning that wed have to do something with Byrd or Fukudome.

 

They're only one or two pieces away if those pieces are Pujols and Halladay.

 

The Cubs have a lot if ifs. If Aramis can hit for power. If Soriano can get enough hot streaks. if Pena can get back to pre 2010. If Castro and Barney can keep hitting. If Soto can pull it together when he gets back. If we had a legit 3 hitter.

[Sammy Sofa]

Exactly. And you want to give up important pieces to get an old Beltran for half a season despite all of those if's.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Exactly. And you want to give up important pieces to get an old Beltran for half a season despite all of those if's.

 

Again, it all depends what pieces were talking about, and what you consider important. Lets look at the Harden package, and see what would be close to it:

 

Sean Gallagher: major league ready-ish starter, potential, but didnt quite reach it yet: Casey Coleman or Jay Jackson?

Matt Murton: young major league ready player. Has had some past big leage successCould contribute in the future: Blake DeWitt

Eric Patterson: fringe prospect. wasnt quite major league ready, althoug wed brought him up out of necessity: any number of guys. lets say, Ryan Flaherty.

Josh Donaldson: young, lower level prospect. decent bat Again, could be any number of guys. Lets just say, oh, Matt Cerda or Pierre LaPage.

 

Would you trade Coleman/Jackson, DeWitt, Flaherty, and Cerda/LaPage for Beltran and maybe a lesser player? I would. Again, it depends if the Mets would.

[SouthSideRyan]

The only one of those that is comparable is Flaherty and Patterson.

[Sammy Sofa]

Exactly. And you want to give up important pieces to get an old Beltran for half a season despite all of those if's.

 

Again, it all depends what pieces were talking about, and what you consider important. Lets look at the Harden package, and see what would be close to it:

 

Sean Gallagher: major league ready-ish starter, potential, but didnt quite reach it yet: Casey Coleman or Jay Jackson?

Matt Murton: young major league ready player. Has had some past big leage successCould contribute in the future: Blake DeWitt

Eric Patterson: fringe prospect. wasnt quite major league ready, althoug wed brought him up out of necessity: any number of guys. lets say, Ryan Flaherty.

Josh Donaldson: young, lower level prospect. decent bat Again, could be any number of guys. Lets just say, oh, Matt Cerda or Pierre LaPage.

 

Would you trade Coleman/Jackson, DeWitt, Flaherty, and Cerda/LaPage for Beltran and maybe a lesser player? I would. Again, it depends if the Mets would.

 

Of course they wouldn't. Most the players you listed as potential trade bait aren't comparable with what was given up for Harden. Plus the Cubs were taking a chance because they'd get him for at least a season and a half and he was a much younger player.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Exactly. And you want to give up important pieces to get an old Beltran for half a season despite all of those if's.

 

Again, it all depends what pieces were talking about, and what you consider important. Lets look at the Harden package, and see what would be close to it:

 

Sean Gallagher: major league ready-ish starter, potential, but didnt quite reach it yet: Casey Coleman or Jay Jackson?

Matt Murton: young major league ready player. Has had some past big leage successCould contribute in the future: Blake DeWitt

Eric Patterson: fringe prospect. wasnt quite major league ready, althoug wed brought him up out of necessity: any number of guys. lets say, Ryan Flaherty.

Josh Donaldson: young, lower level prospect. decent bat Again, could be any number of guys. Lets just say, oh, Matt Cerda or Pierre LaPage.

 

Would you trade Coleman/Jackson, DeWitt, Flaherty, and Cerda/LaPage for Beltran and maybe a lesser player? I would. Again, it depends if the Mets would.

 

Of course they wouldn't. Most the players you listed as potential trade bait aren't comparable with what was given up for Harden. Plus the Cubs were taking a chance because they'd get him for at least a season and a half and he was a much younger player.

 

Why not? Jackson is an early 20's starter, one of our top prospects as Gallagher was. Jax was the 98th overall prospect pre 2010, Gallagher was number 82 pre 2008. DeWitt has arguebaly had more big league sucess than Murton, plus plays a more premium position at 2B. Flaherty and Patterson are very comperable. We might just need to offer a more tempting low level prospect.

[Sammy Sofa]

Exactly. And you want to give up important pieces to get an old Beltran for half a season despite all of those if's.

 

Again, it all depends what pieces were talking about, and what you consider important. Lets look at the Harden package, and see what would be close to it:

 

Sean Gallagher: major league ready-ish starter, potential, but didnt quite reach it yet: Casey Coleman or Jay Jackson?

Matt Murton: young major league ready player. Has had some past big leage successCould contribute in the future: Blake DeWitt

Eric Patterson: fringe prospect. wasnt quite major league ready, althoug wed brought him up out of necessity: any number of guys. lets say, Ryan Flaherty.

Josh Donaldson: young, lower level prospect. decent bat Again, could be any number of guys. Lets just say, oh, Matt Cerda or Pierre LaPage.

 

Would you trade Coleman/Jackson, DeWitt, Flaherty, and Cerda/LaPage for Beltran and maybe a lesser player? I would. Again, it depends if the Mets would.

 

Of course they wouldn't. Most the players you listed as potential trade bait aren't comparable with what was given up for Harden. Plus the Cubs were taking a chance because they'd get him for at least a season and a half and he was a much younger player.

 

Why not? Jackson is an early 20's starter, one of our top prospects as Gallagher was. Jax was the 98th overall prospect pre 2010, Gallagher was number 82 pre 2008. DeWitt has arguebaly had more big league sucess than Murton, plus plays a more premium position at 2B. Flaherty and Patterson are very comperable. We might just need to offer a more tempting low level prospect.

 

Are you really going to base your comparison on Gallagher and Jackson only on their BA prospect ratings? It's also telling that left out Donaldson in that last post given the reports that he and Gallagher were the primary targets.

 

And once again, the Cubs were trading that package for a pitcher that would have for at least a season and a half and ideally past that. Beltran provides nothing of the sort. Yeah, if you could get him for guys like Flaherty and DeWitt, great, go nuts. Start throwing in guys like Jackson and someone like Castillo to match someone like Donaldson and you're paying way too damn much for half a season of 35-year-old Beltran.

[Backtobanks]

N&G,

 

I think Beltran's cost might not be as high as you think. People are going to be scared about the injury history and it is only a half year rental. If the Mets are really in dire straits financially, they may be forced to dump the salary. In that case, it would be a buyer's market.

 

The "experts" weigh in, from MLBTR:

•It will be interesting to see how Carlos Beltran’s $18.5MM salary affects other teams’ interest in him midseason, as ESPN.com's Buster Olney explains. Few teams have $6MM kicking around for a two-month rental, and that’s how much will remain on Beltran’s contract at the end of July. Olney suggests the Mets could get a decent prospect for Beltran if he continues his hot hitting (the free agent to be had a three-homer game yesterday).

 

•Matt Klaassen of FanGraphs examines Carlos Beltran's trade value and says "it is hard to imagine the Mets getting more than a couple of C prospects in return for Beltran if they send a few million dollars along."

[Guest]

I'm kind of in the middle of N&G and WSR in terms of my thoughts on the Cubs. They've had some bad luck on the staff - Garza's ridiculous BABIP allowed, the injuries to Cashner and Wells and Dempster's horrid start. Garza's BABIP is trending toward normal and the results are coming with a 2.90 ERA, a 1.13 WHIP and a .585 OPS allowed over his last five starts. If the Dempster we've seen the last three outings is the Dempster we're going to see the rest of the year, that will be a big bump as well. Who knows what Cashner and Wells will do when the come back, but it's highly unlikely that they'll be worse than Coleman and Russell when they come back. So if those two come back relatively soon, that will be a bump as well.

 

The offense is a bigger problem, with Rammy's complete lack of power and Soto not producing like he did last year before getting hurt. Hopefully Pena can continue to hit like he has since the start of the Dodger series because that would be a big boost to the offense.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs won 75 games this year but I also wouldn't be surprised if they're in contention come the trade deadline and September. As much as we know about the team already, there are still some big question marks about performance. If the Cubs are in contention in late June and into July, I'd hope they would look at Beltran but I certainly wouldn't want them to give up anything meaningful just for a rental. If the Mets trade him and they get back some top prospects, then I'll be happy with the Cubs passing.

[imb]

We should trade for beltran on the cheap since the mets need to save money, and then dish him off for a higher price since we're not under the gun ECONOMICS

[Sammy Sofa]

N&G,

 

I think Beltran's cost might not be as high as you think. People are going to be scared about the injury history and it is only a half year rental. If the Mets are really in dire straits financially, they may be forced to dump the salary. In that case, it would be a buyer's market.

 

The "experts" weigh in, from MLBTR:

•It will be interesting to see how Carlos Beltran’s $18.5MM salary affects other teams’ interest in him midseason, as ESPN.com's Buster Olney explains. Few teams have $6MM kicking around for a two-month rental, and that’s how much will remain on Beltran’s contract at the end of July. Olney suggests the Mets could get a decent prospect for Beltran if he continues his hot hitting (the free agent to be had a three-homer game yesterday).

 

•Matt Klaassen of FanGraphs examines Carlos Beltran's trade value and says "it is hard to imagine the Mets getting more than a couple of C prospects in return for Beltran if they send a few million dollars along."

 

I still think pretty much any prospect with anything resembling a decent chance of contributing is too much. I know I'm being really absolute about this, but I'd rather save any part that could have any value for someone who would have at least some kind of future with the Cubs beyond the last two months of this season. OK, yes, let's say Aramis takes off and Soto comes back strong and the pitching keeps looking good and the Cubs go on a real run and are right there at the top at the deadline and Beltran is still having an amazing year, fine, MAYBE it would be worth it...but even then I would have to think there potentially be better options to trade for that would last through next season than Beltran.

[Tarver]

Cashner and Wells aren't even back yet. This should be revisited in July.

[dew1679666265]

I still think pretty much any prospect with anything resembling a decent chance of contributing is too much. I know I'm being really absolute about this, but I'd rather save any part that could have any value for someone who would have at least some kind of future with the Cubs beyond the last two months of this season. OK, yes, let's say Aramis takes off and Soto comes back strong and the pitching keeps looking good and the Cubs go on a real run and are right there at the top at the deadline and Beltran is still having an amazing year, fine, MAYBE it would be worth it...but even then I would have to think there potentially be better options to trade for that would last through next season than Beltran.

 

If we're talking about doing this trade now or soon, I'd be very much against it. There are simply too many questions on this team to acquire Beltran in the hopes that he continues hitting and stays healthy. However, if we're talking about a potential deadline (or near deadline) trade, it very well could be worth it.

 

If we're in contention enough to be thinking strongly about contending in July, the likelihood is that Aramis has started to show some power, Soto is back and producing and Cashner and Wells are healthy. Basically, if we're in strong contention by around the deadline, some of our questions have been answered positively (or every team in the central is just miserably bad, which I guess is a possibility). If that's the case, I'd be a lot more open to dealing two C prospects from a very deep system for a guy who is still healthy and highly productive (which Beltran would have to be).

[dew1679666265]

The only real problem I see with it it too many moving pieces, meaning that wed have to do something with Byrd or Fukudome.

 

One thing you have to keep in mind with acquiring Beltran is that we're losing value in the deal as well. If we add Beltran (1.3 WAR so far this year) we have to bench or trade Kosuke (1.0 WAR so far) or Byrd (0.4 WAR so far). It's still early in the year, but Kosuke has been nearly as valuable as Beltran to this point, primarily because Beltran's been bad defensively and Kosuke's been good.

 

If you deal Kosuke, you have to look at the difference in their production at the time of the trade and determine if the difference in production is worth probably a net negative in prospects. There are questions with both players - can Kosuke avoid his month-long slumps and can Beltran stay healthy - and I think it'd be prudent to wait as long as you can before pulling the trigger on the deals so you get as much information as possible on the two.

 

If you deal Byrd, you have to ask whether Beltran can still play center and stay healthy. He hasn't logged an inning there this year (he's been only a RF) and has been pretty awful defensively in right. Byrd's been bad defensively as well, but he's younger and has much less of an injury history than Beltran and is almost certainly the better bet to rebound. You could always move Kosuke to center if you trade Byrd, but you're losing a ton of Kosuke's value doing that. Beltran's been quite a bit more valuable than Byrd so far, making this the more preferable scenario, but Byrd has recent history on his side.

 

Could dealing for Beltran be a good idea? Sure, but I'd wait until much closer to the deadline before advocating or criticizing it definitively.