Murray Chass on Stan Musial

[Rob]

dave, you seem to be confusing "average internet baseball message board poster" with "casual fan."

 

Casual fans exposure to advanced metrics is limited to hearing Joe Miller try to pronounce OPS as "awps" on Sunday Night Baseball.

It's funny you say that Rob. The sentence you're referring to from my post originally said something like "typical messageboard poster", but I changed it to "casual fan" to tone it down a notch.

 

Regardless, it's semantics, and if there is any meaningful distinction, the point I'm making applies to both groups.

 

I really think you have a very warped view of what the anti-saber crowd is.

 

The anti-saber crowd has been and always will be those who want nothing but "traditional" baseball. Sac bunts, the hit and run, team chemistry, batting average, grittiness, playing the game the right way, RBIs, etc... these are the tenets of the anti-saber crowd. The vast majority of them are still opposing the merit of OBP as more important than batting average or RBI. To find this sort of person, one needs only to look as far as the local sports bar, listen to talk radio, or as depressing as this is to say... watch or listen to any broadcast games (God bless Len Kasper for being one of a kind, but Bob is still old school.)

 

You seem to have it in your head that the argument has evolved to the point that rallying against the use of stats people don't really understand is considered anti-saber. It isn't. If you feel you've been accused of that, you either interpreted it incorrectly or the accuser is/was a moron.

 

That book you were so intent on defending? It isn't telling people that since WARP was using an obviously incorrect baseline for replacement level fielding that it was artificially boosting the value of guys like Adam Dunn while deflating it for guys like Adam Everett, hence leading the common fan to adopt something more of a mentality that disregarded speed and defense as ways to add significant value. It's telling people that it doesn't matter who our fancy computers think are good players because we can't predict with any degree of certainly what's going to happen in any given at bat. It's just a whole book that serves as a testament to the fact that they don't understand small sample sizes aren't bound to fall in line with big-picture projections.

 

Yes, people need to understand stats better. No, that's not anti-saber of me to say so. Anti-saber is saying people don't need to understand the stats better because they don't matter.

[Sammy Sofa]

That was a truly beautiful post.

[Rob]

That was a truly beautiful post.

 

I'm good for about one of those a year. Kinda mad I wasted it before the season even started...

[davell]

To me, a casual fan is someone who doesn't know the difference between a 25 and a 40 man roster. Only looks at fantasy baseball categories(-WHIP) as how to evaluate players, has no clue about prospects whatsoever, and can probably only name "star" players off any team other than there own, sometimes even just "stars" on their own team.

 

A casual message board poster SHOULD at least know a little bit about all of these things to me, or at least be trying to learn anyway. If not, it's kind of a waste of time, isn't it?

[MSG T]

dave, you seem to be confusing "average internet baseball message board poster" with "casual fan."

 

Casual fans exposure to advanced metrics is limited to hearing Joe Miller try to pronounce OPS as "awps" on Sunday Night Baseball.

It's funny you say that Rob. The sentence you're referring to from my post originally said something like "typical messageboard poster", but I changed it to "casual fan" to tone it down a notch.

 

Regardless, it's semantics, and if there is any meaningful distinction, the point I'm making applies to both groups.

 

I really think you have a very warped view of what the anti-saber crowd is.

 

The anti-saber crowd has been and always will be those who want nothing but "traditional" baseball. Sac bunts, the hit and run, team chemistry, batting average, grittiness, playing the game the right way, RBIs, etc... these are the tenets of the anti-saber crowd. The vast majority of them are still opposing the merit of OBP as more important than batting average or RBI. To find this sort of person, one needs only to look as far as the local sports bar, listen to talk radio, or as depressing as this is to say... watch or listen to any broadcast games (God bless Len Kasper for being one of a kind, but Bob is still old school.)

 

You seem to have it in your head that the argument has evolved to the point that rallying against the use of stats people don't really understand is considered anti-saber. It isn't. If you feel you've been accused of that, you either interpreted it incorrectly or the accuser is/was a moron.

 

That book you were so intent on defending? It isn't telling people that since WARP was using an obviously incorrect baseline for replacement level fielding that it was artificially boosting the value of guys like Adam Dunn while deflating it for guys like Adam Everett, hence leading the common fan to adopt something more of a mentality that disregarded speed and defense as ways to add significant value. It's telling people that it doesn't matter who our fancy computers think are good players because we can't predict with any degree of certainly what's going to happen in any given at bat. It's just a whole book that serves as a testament to the fact that they don't understand small sample sizes aren't bound to fall in line with big-picture projections.

 

Yes, people need to understand stats better. No, that's not anti-saber of me to say so. Anti-saber is saying people don't need to understand the stats better because they don't matter.

 

 

=D>

[NonProfitCow]

Would you nerds quit talking about numbers and more about how much Stan Musial hates black people?

[Sammy Sofa]

It's a safe bet to just assume that any Cardinal embraces the worst traits of humanity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Not you, Albert.)

[javy knows my name]

Would you nerds quit talking about numbers and more about how much Stan Musial hates black people?

 

I vote we consider Rob's post the epitaph on further discussion of the merits (or lack thereof) of that horrific book.

[Sammy Sofa]

Harumphharumphharumph.

[NonProfitCow]

Would you nerds quit talking about numbers and more about how much Stan Musial hates black people?

 

I vote we consider Rob's post the epitaph on further discussion of the merits (or lack thereof) of that horrific book.

YOU HAVEN'T EVEN READ IT

[Formerly Snayke]

(Not you, Albert.)

 

Off topic, but Voice of Reason thinks you're insane.

[Sammy Sofa]

That guy even hates Pujols? What a monster.

[Formerly Snayke]

That guy even hates Pujols? What a monster.

 

I think I read about 2,000 posts between him and CubbyRich talking about how evil he is. Oh, and Kyle hates Pujols, too.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

That guy even hates Pujols? What a monster.

 

I think I read about 2,000 posts between him and CubbyRich talking about how evil he is. Oh, and Kyle hates Pujols, too.

 

I do?

[Formerly Snayke]

Pretty much.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Pretty much.

 

Why?

[Formerly Snayke]

Pretty much.

 

Why?

 

You think he's a roider.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Pretty much.

 

Why?

 

You think he's a roider.

 

I am generally pro-roider.

[Formerly Snayke]

Well then I stand corrected. My bad.

[TruffleShuffle]

murray chass is worthless in every way possible. what a complete turd.