Cubs looking at middle infielders?

[Guest]

Darwin Barney will be lucky to become Neifi Perez, and he's one of the most reviled characters in NSBB lore. Granted, part of that is the excess of playing time he was given, but considering that Barney is not even on that most base of levels as a player, I really don't understand the backlash at doing better(especially considering the inexperienced/unproven players at both 2B and SS). The Central could quite easily be a jumbled mess this year, incremental gains will matter.

[TruffleShuffle]

i disagree with your opinion.

[Guest]

i disagree with your opinion.

 

On Barney? He's a college draftee that OPSed above .715 just once at the minor league level, and did nothing to inspire any hope in his 85 MLB PAs (.584 OPS) last year. This isn't Ronny Cedeno or Bobby Hill who actually hit in the minor leagues, Barney is far from a lock to be anything but a waste of a roster spot. Because of his defense, age, and cost, I'm not diametrically opposed to having him on the roster, but if you can upgrade to someone better and keep him in Iowa, there's no reason not to.

[dew1679666265]

if you can upgrade to someone better and keep him in Iowa, there's no reason not to.

 

I agree with this statement completely, but are one of Cabrera/Lugo/Guzman really an upgrade?

 

Cabrera: 37 years old, .657 OPS in 2010

Lugo: 35 years old, .581 OPS in 2010

Guzman: 33 years old, .648 OPS

 

Offensively I can see the argument for Guzman, but he's a pretty poor defender and had a negative WAR last year (though very slightly). You may have been talking more in the hypothetical sense than specifically advocating these three and, if that's the case, then I have no problem with what you were saying. I'm just not a big fan of adding any of those three guys specifically, since I can't say they'd be an upgrade over Barney.

[Guest]

Let's put it this way. All three of Guzman, Lugo, and Cabrera are forecasted for a wOBA around .300 this year. Barney's career MiLB wOBA is .326 (.312 in 736 AAA PAs), and it was .266 at the MLB level last year. I think the relative certainty of those three is well worth the chance that Barney pulls some offense out of his hat, and all things equal I'd prefer to have the better bat with my bench player.

[dew1679666265]

Let's put it this way. All three of Guzman, Lugo, and Cabrera are forecasted for a wOBA around .300 this year. Barney's career MiLB wOBA is .326 (.312 in 736 AAA PAs), and it was .266 at the MLB level last year. I think the relative certainty of those three is well worth the chance that Barney pulls some offense out of his hat, and all things equal I'd prefer to have the better bat with my bench player.

 

Is there that much certainty that a 37 year old SS will improve 11 points in wOBA without factoring in a decent amount of luck? Or that a 35 year old SS will improve 40 points of wOBA when his BABIP was at his career average last year?

 

We're discussing a bunch of players who aren't going to hit much at all, I realize, but it seems that our choice is between hoping for decent improvement from a bad, old player or a bad, young player. I guess I wouldn't be against adding any of them at a 1 yr/1 mil deal, but we're looking at very, very incremental improvement at best, it seems.

[Guest]

Let's put it this way. All three of Guzman, Lugo, and Cabrera are forecasted for a wOBA around .300 this year. Barney's career MiLB wOBA is .326 (.312 in 736 AAA PAs), and it was .266 at the MLB level last year. I think the relative certainty of those three is well worth the chance that Barney pulls some offense out of his hat, and all things equal I'd prefer to have the better bat with my bench player.

 

Is there that much certainty that a 37 year old SS will improve 11 points in wOBA without factoring in a decent amount of luck? Or that a 35 year old SS will improve 40 points of wOBA when his BABIP was at his career average last year?

 

We're discussing a bunch of players who aren't going to hit much at all, I realize, but it seems that our choice is between hoping for decent improvement from a bad, old player or a bad, young player. I guess I wouldn't be against adding any of them at a 1 yr/1 mil deal, but we're looking at very, very incremental improvement at best, it seems.

 

Looking at only 2010 for those three paints an overly negative picture. Obviously they aren't in their prime any more, but there's a reason that they're all projected to bounce back. Personally, I can't be certain that Barney will be even a bad MLB hitter, so I'd be more than willing to roll the dice that Cristian Guzman bounces back a bit or catches some BABIP luck.

[dew1679666265]

Looking at only 2010 for those three paints an overly negative picture. Obviously they aren't in their prime any more, but there's a reason that they're all projected to bounce back. Personally, I can't be certain that Barney will be even a bad MLB hitter, so I'd be more than willing to roll the dice that Cristian Guzman bounces back a bit or catches some BABIP luck.

 

The reason I used only 2010 is primarily their age. Both Cabrera and Lugo are getting really old and the most recent year may be the most reliable gauge at this point. Also due to age, if we sign one of those three, I'd probably like Guzman the most. He's the youngest and has the best chance to rebound out of the group.

[Guest]

TT:

 

would you rather have:

 

Barney + a $500K overslot player

 

or

 

Cabrera / Lugo / Guzman?

 

I figure it'll take around $900K - $1M to sign one of those guys. Given the difference in production, I'd rather invest the $500K into another Ben Wells.

[Guest]

Probably the former, but like I said at the outset, I'd also like to see them lower ticket prices on the premium games instead of go after that guy. It doesn't necessarily work that way. And ultimately, if it comes down to an incremental gain that could mean the difference in a playoff berth, or a bonus for a lottery ticket like an overslot draftee, I'm not sure the value proposition is all that different.

 

The moral of the story is that Darwin Barney is really bad. Replace his name with any of a host of other people and I'd be much less interested in the Guzmans and Lugos of the world.

[SouthSideRyan]

The moral of the story is that Darwin Barney is really bad. Replace his name with any of a host of other people and I'd be much less interested in the Guzmans and Lugos of the world.

 

What if we replaced him with Robby Chirinos?

[Guest]

The moral of the story is that Darwin Barney is really bad. Replace his name with any of a host of other people and I'd be much less interested in the Guzmans and Lugos of the world.

 

What if we replaced him with Robby Chirinos?

 

Then double whatever Guzman's agent asks for.

[davell]

Indians are signing Cabrera. Not sure if it's a ML deal or NRI.