Stephen Strasburg: All Star?

[davearm2]

So even though he's put up really good stats in the 1/3rd of a year since he's been up, as has Strasburg, Boesch shouldn't get in because he doesn't have the hype or the media following?

No he shouldn't get in because fans would prefer to see other guys.

[erik316wttn]

You don't "have to put brennan boesch in there if you put strasburg in." that's stupid, position players are voted in, pitchers aren't. You're not really going to compare 50 flukey games by brennan boesch to what strasburg is doing, right?

 

You kind of proved my point.

 

Strasburg has been fantastic since he's been up. So has Boesch. Of course Strasburg has the higher career ceiling by far, but if you're going to put him in after only 7 career starts, how can you pass on Boesch after 60-some career games when he's been great, too.

 

For those who don't know, through 53 games Boesch is .330/.389/.621 with 12 HR and 43 RBI.

"For those who don't know" illustrates perfectly why he's not a candidate for the ASG.

 

So even though he's put up really good stats in the 1/3rd of a year since he's been up, as has Strasburg, Boesch shouldn't get in because he doesn't have the hype or the media following? Welp, I guess that eliminates Gallardo and Greinke.

 

it's called the all-star game. strasburg is a star, boesch isn't.

 

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. If all you base it on is popularity, then you're absolutely right. Strasburg gets in and Boesch, etc doesn't. But if you base it on stats then some players who aren't nearly as popular but who have still put up good numbers like Boesch, Greinke, Gallardo, etc should all get in as well.

[imb]

greinke and gallardo have a little more of a track record that boesch. are you being serious here or is this just some weird "pretend to be an espn anchor" thing

[erik316wttn]

greinke and gallardo have a little more of a track record that boesch. are you being serious here or is this just some weird "pretend to be an espn anchor" thing

 

He was arguing on overall popularity in the national media, not past track records, and I responded in kind. What kind of past MLB track record does Strasburg have? 5 starts? The argument was solely about popularity and "who the fans want to see." I very much doubt anyone outside of Milwaukee or possibly an NL Central city would be super excited to see Yovani Gallardo in action, as good as he is, because he doesn't have dozens of national media at all of his starts like Strasburg does.

 

Again, I'm not saying that Strasburg isn't popular or that he hasn't put up great numbers so far. But since the stupid HFA rule has been attached to the game you have to look at stats, too.

 

However, seeing as you can't debate with anyone without resorting to insults and immaturity, I'm done debating this with you.

Edited June 29, 2010 by erik316wttn

[davearm2]

So long as HFA is attached to the ASG, and fans vote in the starters, then the fans of one league ought to conspire to vote in the worst players in the opposite league. I don't care how many NYY fans there are, if fans in 16 NL cities are voting for Nick Punto instead of ARod, then ARod ain't starting. I'd love to see that happen.

[erik316wttn]

So long as HFA is attached to the ASG, and fans vote in the starters, then the fans of one league ought to conspire to vote in the worst players in the opposite league. I don't care how many NYY fans there are, if fans in 16 NL cities are voting for Nick Punto instead of ARod, then ARod ain't starting. I'd love to see that happen.

 

My brother and I used to do that when we were younger. All the good NL players and then the worst AL guys we could think of.

[imb]

greinke and gallardo have a little more of a track record that boesch. are you being serious here or is this just some weird "pretend to be an espn anchor" thing

 

He was arguing on overall popularity in the national media, not past track records, and I responded in kind. What kind of past MLB track record does Strasburg have? 5 starts? The argument was solely about popularity and "who the fans want to see." I very much doubt anyone outside of Milwaukee or possibly an NL Central city would be super excited to see Yovani Gallardo in action, as good as he is, because he doesn't have dozens of national media at all of his starts like Strasburg does.

 

Again, I'm not saying that Strasburg isn't popular or that he hasn't put up great numbers so far. But since the stupid HFA rule has been attached to the game you have to look at stats, too.

 

However, seeing as you can't debate with anyone without resorting to insults and immaturity, I'm done debating this with you.

 

jesus you're obtuse. the selections aren't done ONLY with stats in mind or ONLY with popularity in mind, so what is the point of your argument

[TruffleShuffle]

it's called the all-star game. strasburg is a star, boesch isn't.

 

you're veering into colin cowherd territory (it's the hall of fame, not the "hall of very good") here

[17 Seconds]

What kind of past MLB track record does Strasburg have?

 

he has an awesome baseball track record

[17 Seconds]

it's called the all-star game. strasburg is a star, boesch isn't.

 

you're veering into colin cowherd territory (it's the hall of fame, not the "hall of very good") here

 

? that's a pretty baseless comparison.

 

ultimately, the all-star game is an exhibition game. it's primary purpose is so gather up the biggest stars in the game and put them on one stage for one night. nobody wants to see brandon boesch just because he had a good 3 months.

 

the only argument against this is the fact that the ASG determines HFA, but that is pretty much negated by the fact that fans can vote in players, which again reinforces that this is a game for the fans to see superstars play together.

[TruffleShuffle]

it's called the all-star game. strasburg is a star, boesch isn't.

 

you're veering into colin cowherd territory (it's the hall of fame, not the "hall of very good") here

 

? that's a pretty baseless comparison.

 

ultimately, the all-star game is an exhibition game. it's primary purpose is so gather up the biggest stars in the game and put them on one stage for one night.

 

no, its primary purpose has always been to reward the players who had the best first halves. that's why you had tim wakefield, edwin jackson, aaron hill, ben zobrist, brandon inge, jason bartlett, nelson cruz, adam jones, hunter pence, brad hawpe, jason marquis, ryan franklin and heath bell on the all star teams last year. none of those guys are giant stars of the game. putting a guy like strasburg on the all star team would be completely out of place with what has been done in baseball pretty much forever.

[17 Seconds]

then why do the fans get to vote people in?

[erik316wttn]

it's called the all-star game. strasburg is a star, boesch isn't.

 

you're veering into colin cowherd territory (it's the hall of fame, not the "hall of very good") here

 

? that's a pretty baseless comparison.

 

ultimately, the all-star game is an exhibition game. it's primary purpose is so gather up the biggest stars in the game and put them on one stage for one night.

 

no, its primary purpose has always been to reward the players who had the best first halves. that's why you had tim wakefield, edwin jackson, aaron hill, ben zobrist, brandon inge, jason bartlett, nelson cruz, adam jones, hunter pence, brad hawpe, jason marquis, ryan franklin and heath bell on the all star teams last year. none of those guys are giant stars of the game. putting a guy like strasburg on the all star team would be completely out of place with what has been done in baseball pretty much forever.

 

Truffle pretty much made my point better than I did. I'm going to piggyback onto this.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Kansas City, The White Sox, and Atlanta. That's why he shouldn't get in. He's only faced one team that I'd call "good", and they beat him. The Nationals set him up to succeed in his first few starts by timing it perfectly against one of the easiest stretches of any team's schedule. Sure he's been good. But 2-2 with a 2.27 ERA isn't all-star worthy. Count me in on the side that believes it's about the numbers you put up that year, not about what your name is. The fan voting throws this off because many people either only vote for names they know, vote for people they know aren't deserving, or flat out vote for the worst players they can in order to help their league win. If you want to make it count for home field advantage, take fan voting out of the equation.

 

It'd be a shame to put Strasburg in over a guy like Jaime Garcia, who has an identical ERA, and has done well all season instead of against 5 hand picked teams.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Fan voting has no effect on Strasburg.

[jersey cubs fan]

no, its primary purpose has always been to reward the players who had the best first halves.

 

That's not true at all. It's primary purpose has always been as a marketing tool to showcase big names on the field at one time. They have a long history of bypassing the most productive players of the first half for bigger stars.

[TruffleShuffle]

no, its primary purpose has always been to reward the players who had the best first halves.

 

That's not true at all. It's primary purpose has always been as a marketing tool to showcase big names on the field at one time. They have a long history of bypassing the most productive players of the first half for bigger stars.

 

no, there is a history of some of the more productive players being skipped over for bigger stars - hence the fan voting - but the reserves and pitchers are the guys who were the first half's best players. you don't have .340/25/80 hitters or 11-1, 2.40 pitchers being left off the all star roster because they're one-year wonders.

[treebird]

You don't "have to put brennan boesch in there if you put strasburg in." that's stupid, position players are voted in, pitchers aren't. You're not really going to compare 50 flukey games by brennan boesch to what strasburg is doing, right?

 

You kind of proved my point.

 

Strasburg has been fantastic since he's been up. So has Boesch. Of course Strasburg has the higher career ceiling by far, but if you're going to put him in after only 7 career starts, how can you pass on Boesch after 60-some career games when he's been great, too.

 

For those who don't know, through 53 games Boesch is .330/.389/.621 with 12 HR and 43 RBI.

"For those who don't know" illustrates perfectly why he's not a candidate for the ASG.

 

So even though he's put up really good stats in the 1/3rd of a year since he's been up, as has Strasburg, Boesch shouldn't get in because he doesn't have the hype or the media following? Welp, I guess that eliminates Gallardo and Greinke.

 

if you took 11 OF or whatever, I'm sure they might be able to find a place for Boesch.

 

AND NOW STARTING AT LEFT BLIMP, BRENNAN BOESCH

[Guest]

You know, the fans like the players who are playing well, too. And what they like the best are phenoms who are on pace to be nine win pitchers. By the all-star break, Strasburg stands a decent chance to be in the top 15 pitchers in the NL in WAR.

[jersey cubs fan]

no, its primary purpose has always been to reward the players who had the best first halves.

 

That's not true at all. It's primary purpose has always been as a marketing tool to showcase big names on the field at one time. They have a long history of bypassing the most productive players of the first half for bigger stars.

 

no, there is a history of some of the more productive players being skipped over for bigger stars - hence the fan voting

 

That's what I said.

 

The point is you were wrong about the primary purpose. It's a marketing event, not some reward. Half the guys don't even want to be there.

[TruffleShuffle]

The point is you were wrong about the primary purpose. It's a marketing event, not some reward. Half the guys don't even want to be there.

 

that may be true, but the statement that it just rewards stars and ignores the players who are most deserving has no basis in reality.

[jersey cubs fan]

The point is you were wrong about the primary purpose. It's a marketing event, not some reward. Half the guys don't even want to be there.

 

that may be true, but the statement that it just rewards stars and ignores the players who are most deserving has no basis in reality.

 

It has a basis, it's just not totally accurate. It's a mix of hot players and big names. But what it often is is a mixed bag of guys who don't fake an injury.

[davearm2]

no, its primary purpose has always been to reward the players who had the best first halves. that's why you had tim wakefield, edwin jackson, aaron hill, ben zobrist, brandon inge, jason bartlett, nelson cruz, adam jones, hunter pence, brad hawpe, jason marquis, ryan franklin and heath bell on the all star teams last year. none of those guys are giant stars of the game.

None of those guys were voted in by the fans, either (IIRC).

 

Look the fans that vote in the starters have one agenda, and the managers that pick the pitchers and reserves have a different agenda. So you can't make a blanket statement about the ASG's primary purpose because it's ambiguous. It's part marketing, part popularity, part entertainment, part reward for past performance, part reward for current performance, and part determining HFA for the WS. It's all of those things at the same time (or at least it tries to be); choosing which of those is "primary" is frivolous.

[rocket]

ugh, all star debates are the worst.

[jersey cubs fan]

ugh, all star debates are the worst.

 

yes, followed closely by hall of fame