2011 Draft Discussion

[Guest]

I think I'd prefer Gray or Barnes there but can't really complain with Mahtook if that's how the draft went. I also think Wilken prefers Gray to Mahtook.

 

I'd have him #4 on my prospect list - 1) Brett Jackson, 2) Matt Szczur and 3) Trey McNutt would be ahead of him. The Murton comps are bad. Mahtook is more athletic, better defensively and has more power.

 

And by the way, Joe Ross at 8!? Now that's a reach! I guess he won't end up at Westwood.

[imb]

If Gray and Barnes are the top two pitchers left, I'd rather take Mahtook. He's probably my favorite bat if you take rendon off the list.

 

Edit: If the top 8 goes that way, I'd wany Mahtook or Jungmann. I'd be cool with either.

[Guest]

I prefer Gray and Barnes to Jungmann. Better offspeed pitches, higher ceilings.

[imb]

I prefer Gray and Barnes to Jungmann. Better offspeed pitches, higher ceilings.

 

I'm wary of the Gray to the pen stuff, even though I guess that could be teams trying to scare other people off. I'm probably just higher on Jungmann because I know more about him since he's a big 12 guy.

 

I also like Springer for the same reasons I like Mahtook, though less so cause of the swing concerns. I'm a sucker for that type of OF, especially now that impact OF bats in the majors are so scarce.

[Rob]

Right, so what's the problem with Mahtook?

 

Mostly lack of upside.

 

He's got 5 tools, but none of them profile as plus. And unless his defense improves, he'll probably be relegated to a corner spot. He's just kinda underwhelming for a first rounder.

 

Edit:

 

That's not to say he's a particularly bad pick or anything... just not the franchise changer we all find ourselves hoping for.

[imb]

Right, so what's the problem with Mahtook?

 

Mostly lack of upside.

 

He's got 5 tools, but none of them profile as plus. And unless his defense improves, he'll probably be relegated to a corner spot. He's just kinda underwhelming for a first rounder.

 

Edit:

 

That's not to say he's a particularly bad pick or anything... just not the franchise changer we all find ourselves hoping for.

 

I get so addicted to draft stuff in all sports that I could probably talk myself into just about anyone.

 

Let's pretend the Cubs have the third pick, and Cole and Rendon are off the board. Who's your top 5?

[javy knows my name]

Right, so what's the problem with Mahtook?

 

Mostly lack of upside.

 

He's got 5 tools, but none of them profile as plus. And unless his defense improves, he'll probably be relegated to a corner spot. He's just kinda underwhelming for a first rounder.

 

Edit:

 

That's not to say he's a particularly bad pick or anything... just not the franchise changer we all find ourselves hoping for.

 

I get so addicted to draft stuff in all sports that I could probably talk myself into just about anyone.

 

Let's pretend the Cubs have the third pick, and Cole and Rendon are off the board. Who's your top 5?

 

Dylan Bundy

Jed Bradley

Trevor Bauer

Bubba Starling

Archie Bradley

[Outshined_One]

I'm okay with Mahtook. He was really raw when he started at LSU and has improved every season he's been there, plus he has been really productive even with the new bats. He's polished, he's a legit five tool guy, and he's probably the second most major league ready hitter in this draft after Rendon. Hell, he'll probably sign at or around slot, which would be great if the Cubs decide to chase after signability guys in later rounds. He doesn't exactly excite me, but I'd be torn between him and Brett Jackson as the top prospect in this system if the Cubs took him.

 

In Law's scenario, I'd go with Jed Bradley (or Archie Bradley; whichever one was not selected before the Cubs).

[Rob]

Right, so what's the problem with Mahtook?

 

Mostly lack of upside.

 

He's got 5 tools, but none of them profile as plus. And unless his defense improves, he'll probably be relegated to a corner spot. He's just kinda underwhelming for a first rounder.

 

Edit:

 

That's not to say he's a particularly bad pick or anything... just not the franchise changer we all find ourselves hoping for.

 

I get so addicted to draft stuff in all sports that I could probably talk myself into just about anyone.

 

Let's pretend the Cubs have the third pick, and Cole and Rendon are off the board. Who's your top 5?

 

1.) Dylan Bundy

2.) Bubba Starling

3.) Archie Bradley

4.) Jed Bradley

5.) Danny Hultzen

6.) Trevor Bauer

7.) Sonny Gray

8.) George Springer

9.) Mikie Mahtook

10.) Taylor Guerrieri

11.) Francisco Lindor

 

I will admit making that list, I had a bit of trouble differentiating guys from 6-11. There's a pretty tight clumping of talent around that level. I'd love to get Josh Bell, but I'd have to see what kind of money it would take to sign him... probably not worth using our 1st rounder on though.

[Guest]

Right, so what's the problem with Mahtook?

 

Mostly lack of upside.

 

He's got 5 tools, but none of them profile as plus. And unless his defense improves, he'll probably be relegated to a corner spot. He's just kinda underwhelming for a first rounder.

 

Edit:

 

That's not to say he's a particularly bad pick or anything... just not the franchise changer we all find ourselves hoping for.

 

I get so addicted to draft stuff in all sports that I could probably talk myself into just about anyone.

 

Let's pretend the Cubs have the third pick, and Cole and Rendon are off the board. Who's your top 5?

 

1. Dylan Bundy

2. Trevor Bauer

3. Archie Bradley

4. Bubba Starling

5. Danny Hultzen

[Outshined_One]

Let's pretend the Cubs have the third pick, and Cole and Rendon are off the board. Who's your top 5?

 

Archie Bradley

Jed Bradley

Trevor Bauer

Dylan Bundy

Danny Hultzen

 

On another topic, out of everyone in this draft, I go back and forth on Starling and Bauer more than everyone else. There are days I'd be incredibly excited to see the Cubs draft either of them and days where I just want the Cubs to avoid them at all costs.

 

I think Starling's contact issues are overblown and his other tools are excellent, but I also think that he's benefited from a lot of hype. All of the video I've seen of him has been batting practice, where his swing looks really nice, but I have to wonder about his in-game approach and how well his swing would play against better competition. Still, his ceiling is fantastic.

 

I have two issues with Bauer. The first issue is his durability given his habits and mechanics, which was covered extensively earlier. The second issue is whether the Cubs would be the right team for him. All of the rumors about him not wanting to go to certain teams and not wanting to change his routines and mechanics smack of entitlement and coachability issues. I normally don't care about baseball players' personalities if they are productive, but if you haven't even been drafted yet and you're telling teams what to do if they draft you, I have to wonder whether you have the attitude and maturity needed to make adjustments, adapt to higher levels of competitions, listen to coaches, and make it to the majors in one piece. At the same time, he may very well be the best pitcher in this draft. Tough call.

 

Anyone else feel similarly conflicted about other players?

[imb]

I feel that way about Starling, Gray and Jed Bradley.

 

Worst case, Starling ends up being Chris Lubanksi (obviously his transformation is weird, but they were similar prospects coming out), Gray is a reliever and Bradley never gets a second pitch.

[Guest]

Archie Bradley goes to the Cubs for the 2nd consecutive BA mock draft:

 

9. CUBS: Bank on a high-ceiling player for Chicago. The Cubs have little chance to get Bundy or Starling, but they likely can pick between the next-best high school arm (Archie Bradley) or overall athlete (Connecticut outfielder George Springer) in the draft.

 

Projected Pick: Archie Bradley.

[imb]

My hopes are officially up.

[javy knows my name]

My hopes are officially up.

 

Absolutely. You've seen him play, have you not?

[imb]

My hopes are officially up.

 

Absolutely. You've seen him play, have you not?

 

Many times. His velocity unlike anything I've seen that close up before. I didn't see him at the beginning of this year when he was "struggling" but at the end of the year his velocity was just unnatural.

[Outshined_One]

My hopes are officially up.

 

Absolutely. You've seen him play, have you not?

 

Many times. His velocity unlike anything I've seen that close up before. I didn't see him at the beginning of this year when he was "struggling" but at the end of the year his velocity was just unnatural.

 

Have you seen Bundy? How would you compare the two?

[imb]

I only saw Bundy once this year. The other time I saw him he was a freshman 1B for Sperry.

 

To my uneducated eye, Bundy's breaking pitch looked tighter, and Bradley's fastball was much harder. I guess it's an exponential thing since Bundy is supposed to be 95-97. Somehow 99-101 looks more impressive. It might have to do with Bradley physically passing the eye test. Bundy is a workout warrior, but he's pretty unassuming looking when he's not on the mound. Bradley looks like a monster in person.

[Vinestal]

Right, so what's the problem with Mahtook?

 

Mostly lack of upside.

 

He's got 5 tools, but none of them profile as plus. And unless his defense improves, he'll probably be relegated to a corner spot. He's just kinda underwhelming for a first rounder.

 

Edit:

 

That's not to say he's a particularly bad pick or anything... just not the franchise changer we all find ourselves hoping for.

Sounds like a Wilken pick to me, high floor low ceiling mediocrity. Bleh

We really need more 4th outfielders.

[davell]

Right, so what's the problem with Mahtook?

 

Mostly lack of upside.

 

He's got 5 tools, but none of them profile as plus. And unless his defense improves, he'll probably be relegated to a corner spot. He's just kinda underwhelming for a first rounder.

 

Edit:

 

That's not to say he's a particularly bad pick or anything... just not the franchise changer we all find ourselves hoping for.

 

I get so addicted to draft stuff in all sports that I could probably talk myself into just about anyone.

 

Let's pretend the Cubs have the third pick, and Cole and Rendon are off the board. Who's your top 5?

 

Bundy

Bauer

Hultzen(very safe and to me, he's a 2)

Starling

A Bradley(in 10 minutes I may have him above Hultzen, those last 3 are tough for me)

[davell]

As far as Mahtook goes, I am a fan. And if we were picking in the 15-20 range, I'd be all for him. But, we're not, and there's bigger upside guys out there we can take. I love Callis mentioned we'd go upside in this draft too, because we sorely need it.

 

Back to Mahtook, I think he's got more power than Brett, less speed and will wind up on a corner. I think he's a fairly safe guy too, I just think we need a potential system changer and I don't think he's it. If Wilken lets Hendry talk himself into Mahtook, because of all the LSU "success" we've had, I'll be all for getting rid of him(and Hendry, of course) at the end of the season.

 

We need to go balls to the wall with this draft. Take BPA all the way and spend, spend, spend. Get them signed. We'll probably know pretty early on(by the 4th-5th round) if we have any hope at all of actually doing this.

[imb]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?id=6609946

 

A really long feature on Starling if anyone's interested. Kind of hard not to like him after reading it.

[davell]

Here's my 5 guys, in order, of how I think the Cubs are thinking:

 

Starling

Meyer

A Bradley

Lindor

Mahtook and Gray as a coin flip

 

 

This assumes Rendon, Cole, Hultzen, Bauer, and Bundy are off the board. Although my guess is Bauer is not someone the Cubs would take, even if he were to be there. Hultzen could be another guy we pass on, if it's truly an "upside" pick. Only reason I have Mahtook as a possibility is the LSU connection.

[RammyFanny]

Here's my 5 guys, in order, of how I think the Cubs are thinking:

 

Starling

Meyer

A Bradley

Lindor

Mahtook and Gray as a coin flip

 

 

This assumes Rendon, Cole, Hultzen, Bauer, and Bundy are off the board. Although my guess is Bauer is not someone the Cubs would take, even if he were to be there. Hultzen could be another guy we pass on, if it's truly an "upside" pick. Only reason I have Mahtook as a possibility is the LSU connection.

I think Baez is probably after Starling and (hopefully) Bradley.

[davell]

Here's my 5 guys, in order, of how I think the Cubs are thinking:

 

Starling

Meyer

A Bradley

Lindor

Mahtook and Gray as a coin flip

 

 

This assumes Rendon, Cole, Hultzen, Bauer, and Bundy are off the board. Although my guess is Bauer is not someone the Cubs would take, even if he were to be there. Hultzen could be another guy we pass on, if it's truly an "upside" pick. Only reason I have Mahtook as a possibility is the LSU connection.

I think Baez is probably after Starling and (hopefully) Bradley.

 

I forgot about him. I'd definitely have him over Mahtook or Gray. Not sure whether I think the Cubs like him more than Lindor though.