Jermaine Dye

[erik316wttn]

I know we have very limited resources this offseason, but if Bradley is traded and we don't get an OF back in return, how would people feel about Jermaine Dye for RF if Hendry doesn't go nuts and give him a huge contract?

[KingCubsFan]

I think he'd be a good option if he could be had extremely cheap for one year. Outside of the second half of last year, he's been pretty consistent. Most people will probably point to his defense and say that Sam Fuld is more valuable though.

[SouthSideRyan]

He's a DH.

[17 Seconds]

I think he'd be a good option if he could be had extremely cheap for one year. Outside of the second half of last year, he's been pretty consistent. Most people will probably point to his defense and say that Sam Fuld is more valuable though.

 

jermaine dye is like the opposite of consistent

[Halman]

I think he'd be a good option if he could be had extremely cheap for one year. Outside of the second half of last year, he's been pretty consistent. Most people will probably point to his defense and say that Sam Fuld is more valuable though.

 

jermaine dye is like the opposite of consistent

 

 

and no one with half a brain would say Sam Fuld is more valuable than Jermaine Dye.

[17 Seconds]

I think he'd be a good option if he could be had extremely cheap for one year. Outside of the second half of last year, he's been pretty consistent. Most people will probably point to his defense and say that Sam Fuld is more valuable though.

 

jermaine dye is like the opposite of consistent

 

 

and no one with half a brain would say Sam Fuld is more valuable than Jermaine Dye.

 

If Dye plays like he did last season, then Fuld wouldn't have to do much of anything with the bat to be more valuable overall than Dye.

 

Sorry that you put too much stock in a name.

[Halman]

I think he'd be a good option if he could be had extremely cheap for one year. Outside of the second half of last year, he's been pretty consistent. Most people will probably point to his defense and say that Sam Fuld is more valuable though.

 

jermaine dye is like the opposite of consistent

 

 

and no one with half a brain would say Sam Fuld is more valuable than Jermaine Dye.

 

If Dye plays like he did last season, then Fuld wouldn't have to do much of anything with the bat to be more valuable overall than Dye.

 

Sorry that you put too much stock in a name.

 

27 HRs and 81 RBIs. I don't think Sam Fuld could approach those half of those numbers if you gave him 2000ABs.

[17 Seconds]

i guess fuld will have to settle for being better than dye at the things that actually matter then

 

and like i said, he doesn't need to outhit dye to be more valuable. even when dye does hit (which is like half the time), he gives it back defensively. he's a dh

[Halman]

i guess fuld will have to settle for being better than dye at the things that actually matter then

 

Like offense? Because Sam Fuld is awful at that. The guy can't even OPS a 800 OPS in the freaking PCL as a 28 year old.

 

Defense is important but not that important. Especially for a team desperate for offense in RF.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm going to boil down my reaction to about 97% of the trade proposals on this site to the following:

 

http://i40.tinypic.com/4h44kg.jpg

[17 Seconds]

i guess fuld will have to settle for being better than dye at the things that actually matter then

 

Like offense? Because Sam Fuld is awful at that. The guy can't even OPS a 800 OPS in the freaking PCL as a 28 year old.

 

Defense is important but not that important. Especially for a team desperate for offense in RF.

 

you're desperate for production in RF, period.

 

and yes, when your defense is as bad as Dye's is, it's very important.

 

and you talk about wanting hitting there? well dye has only hit in 1 of the last 3 seasons and will be 36 next season. last season he was 10th out of the 11 qualifying AL RF in OPS (.793).

 

his UZR rankings among all MLB RF over the past 4 seasons

 

18th of 19

11th of 13

17th of 19

17th of 17

 

so he's been terrible on both sides of the ball in 2 of his last 3 seasons, and is going to be 36.

 

if fuld doesn't hit, at least it will be the only thing he sucks at.

 

if fuld got on base like he did in his minor league career and did with the cubs last season, the difference would be even bigger.

[imb]

jermaine dye is the slowest person on earth. i was stunned that he was allowed to play a defensive position this year. Anything over his head was an automatic double. we might as well stick christopher reeves out in right field

[Clem Fandango]

Sam Fuld out OPS'd Jermaine Dye this year.

 

I know I know, sample size.

[Eric Clipperton]

This is a terrible idea, unless Jermaine only wants about $1MM for some reason, like maybe he loves Chicago too much to leave and hopes to bridge the Sox/Cubs divide. Which is unlikely. Dye is a DH at this point and not a particularly great one.

[KingCubsFan]

I think he'd be a good option if he could be had extremely cheap for one year. Outside of the second half of last year, he's been pretty consistent. Most people will probably point to his defense and say that Sam Fuld is more valuable though.

 

jermaine dye is like the opposite of consistent

He consistently hits for 60+ XBH hits a year (his second half of last year notwithstanding). The OBP may be low, but he'll also be hitting in the lower part of the lineup. He's not the greatest option, but if you can have him for one year at a small price, he's better than throwing some light hitting CF out there.

[Rob]

I think he'd be a good option if he could be had extremely cheap for one year. Outside of the second half of last year, he's been pretty consistent. Most people will probably point to his defense and say that Sam Fuld is more valuable though.

 

jermaine dye is like the opposite of consistent

He consistently hits for 60+ XBH hits a year (his second half of last year notwithstanding). The OBP may be low, but he'll also be hitting in the lower part of the lineup. He's not the greatest option, but if you can have him for one year at a small price, he's better than throwing some light hitting CF out there.

 

Dye is consistently 20 runs below average in RF. Just for the sake of argument, let's say Fuld is a league average CF. That would be a difference of 25-30 runs between them on defense.

 

Jermaine Dye hit .250/.340/.453 this year in 574 PA, contributing approximately 66 EqR. So Sam Fuld needs to contribute 36-41 runs over 574 PA to equal his production... Do you realize how little it takes to manage that? You're looking at some sort of crazy .220/.260/.320 line.

 

Defense and baserunning matter.

[TruffleShuffle]

jermaine dye is God-awful defensively, as has been pointed out out in this thread. if you're going to get someone who is horrible at defense, even in the corner outfield, you'd better go the adam dunn route and find someone who you know is going to mash. dye isn't even that good a hitter any more, and he's getting older.

 

this would be a horrifyingly-bad acquisition.

[Halman]

jermaine dye is God-awful defensively, as has been pointed out out in this thread. if you're going to get someone who is horrible at defense, even in the corner outfield, you'd better go the adam dunn route and find someone who you know is going to mash. dye isn't even that good a hitter any more, and he's getting older.

 

this would be a horrifyingly-bad acquisition.

 

That's not the debate though. The debate is he better choice than say 140 or so games of Sam Fuld.

[KingCubsFan]

I think he'd be a good option if he could be had extremely cheap for one year. Outside of the second half of last year, he's been pretty consistent. Most people will probably point to his defense and say that Sam Fuld is more valuable though.

 

jermaine dye is like the opposite of consistent

He consistently hits for 60+ XBH hits a year (his second half of last year notwithstanding). The OBP may be low, but he'll also be hitting in the lower part of the lineup. He's not the greatest option, but if you can have him for one year at a small price, he's better than throwing some light hitting CF out there.

 

Dye is consistently 20 runs below average in RF. Just for the sake of argument, let's say Fuld is a league average CF. That would be a difference of 25-30 runs between them on defense.

 

Jermaine Dye hit .250/.340/.453 this year in 574 PA, contributing approximately 66 EqR. So Sam Fuld needs to contribute 36-41 runs over 574 PA to equal his production... Do you realize how little it takes to manage that? You're looking at some sort of crazy .220/.260/.320 line.

 

Defense and baserunning matter.

25-30 runs seems like a lot for a right fielder to give up. How many runs would a below average SS or 2B give up per year under the system you're using?

[Sammy Sofa]

jermaine dye is God-awful defensively, as has been pointed out out in this thread. if you're going to get someone who is horrible at defense, even in the corner outfield, you'd better go the adam dunn route and find someone who you know is going to mash. dye isn't even that good a hitter any more, and he's getting older.

 

this would be a horrifyingly-bad acquisition.

 

That's not the debate though. The debate is he better choice than say 140 or so games of Sam Fuld.

 

The argument's been pretty clearly made that Fuld would likely be better, and that's not some kind of ringing endorsement of Fuld: that just means that Dye is THAT bad.

[17 Seconds]

jermaine dye is God-awful defensively, as has been pointed out out in this thread. if you're going to get someone who is horrible at defense, even in the corner outfield, you'd better go the adam dunn route and find someone who you know is going to mash. dye isn't even that good a hitter any more, and he's getting older.

 

this would be a horrifyingly-bad acquisition.

 

That's not the debate though. The debate is he better choice than say 140 or so games of Sam Fuld.

 

Did you not see this post from Rob?

 

Jermaine Dye hit .250/.340/.453 this year in 574 PA, contributing approximately 66 EqR. So Sam Fuld needs to contribute 36-41 runs over 574 PA to equal his production... Do you realize how little it takes to manage that? You're looking at some sort of crazy .220/.260/.320 line.

[Rob]

25-30 runs seems like a lot for a right fielder to give up. How many runs would a below average SS or 2B give up per year under the system you're using?

 

Just plain old UZR, with quick looks at a few other metrics to make sure they're in relative agreement.

 

And to answer your question, generally speaking you'll see a bit less deviation when you're looking at middle infielders. That makes sense of course, considering they are defense-first positions. But even at that, a few players were pretty bad this season. Dan Uggla and Luis Castillo were about 10 runs below average, Miguel Tejada and Orlando Cabrera around 15 and Yuniesky Betancourt just over 20 runs below average.

 

Of course, there are other factors that enter into play. Middle infielders do get quite a few more chances... but their failures don't generally end up as disastrous as those in the outfield.

[KingCubsFan]

25-30 runs seems like a lot for a right fielder to give up. How many runs would a below average SS or 2B give up per year under the system you're using?

 

Just plain old UZR, with quick looks at a few other metrics to make sure they're in relative agreement.

 

And to answer your question, generally speaking you'll see a bit less deviation when you're looking at middle infielders. That makes sense of course, considering they are defense-first positions. But even at that, a few players were pretty bad this season. Dan Uggla and Luis Castillo were about 10 runs below average, Miguel Tejada and Orlando Cabrera around 15 and Yuniesky Betancourt just over 20 runs below average.

 

Of course, there are other factors that enter into play. Middle infielders do get quite a few more chances... but their failures don't generally end up as disastrous as those in the outfield.

But what about things like extended innings? Extra outs? Extra hits? With a small outfield like Wrigley and the nature of the position, I can't see a good defensive RF being worth more than a good defensive SS, even if he would botch a flyball or two every month.

[YearofDaCubs]

Comparing the basic stats of Cameron and Dye, they both had similar numbers last year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Comparing the basic stats of Cameron and Dye, they both had similar numbers last year.

 

Difference being Cameron put up those offensive numbers in CF, and he's 2 wins better defensively.