Re: 2009-10 Chicago Bulls Thread

[Sammy Sofa]

It's easy to forget because they've been crappy for a while, but the Knicks are gingantic in NYC, and that's by far the biggest market out there.

 

I was in NY when the Knicks were last good, but I would not say they owned the town. They were no bigger than the Rangers who won the cup.

 

Well, yeah, because they had just won the Cup and the Knicks hadn't won a championship. Whatever team wins the championship will be the biggest there when it happens.

 

until a year goes by when they don't win it

 

Uh, OK? Unless a NYC team is planning on winning a championship every year besides the Knicks that doesn't seem like a huge problem.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I just don't think you can underestimate ego in all of this. If he wins with NY, that's all him. That's his team, his championship, his legacy, his city. Again, same thing in Cleveland, but again, it's also just Cleveland.

 

They're getting an IKEA soon.

 

I'm biased, but I'd have to think that right now Cleveland is the best spot for LeBron. They can give him the same salary, the best supporting cast, and it's hometown. I guess he could get marginally more recognition as a Knick, but I don't know why you'd take that gamble with a much worse team around him.

[Guest]

It's easy to forget because they've been crappy for a while, but the Knicks are gingantic in NYC, and that's by far the biggest market out there.

 

I was in NY when the Knicks were last good, but I would not say they owned the town. They were no bigger than the Rangers who won the cup.

 

Well, yeah, because they had just won the Cup and the Knicks hadn't won a championship. Whatever team wins the championship will be the biggest there when it happens.

The Yankees are the biggest team in NYC. If you're talking money in NYC, it isn't even close. Yankees easily. Heck, over every team in USA sports.

 

Giants are second overall.

 

It get to be a mess after that as far as overall NYC.

 

As for saying there's nothing else like it - bull. The Lakers own LA's 14M person market in a way the Knicks can only dream of.

[David]

When was NY ever the premier destination for stars? Honestly, when was the last time the Knicks signed a free agent that a bunch of other teams wanted? I think this NY thing is colossally overblown.

 

That's arguably the appeal for someone like LeBron. If he can go there and get that team winning and get someone like Wade to show up, boom, that's bigger than he could ever get on any of the other teams out there. Despite the Knicks' crappiness, NYC is still NYC and the Knicks rule that town when they're good.

 

 

Why would it be in two years and how would Wade show up after LeBron got the team winning? He's a free agent this year. I don't even think they could sign two max guys this offseason, but I could be wrong on that.

 

Either way, I don't see it as likely at all that Wade would leave Miami for NY. Chicago? Maybe, but still probably not.

 

Wade is free after this year if he opts out. He has a fourth year player option after this season. My guess is that he does not opt out after this season and becomes a FA after next year. I'm basing that mostly on the idea that he might want to test the FA market when it isn't as relatively crowded as it will be this summer.

 

I don't know. The new CBA is going to result in even the best players making considerably less money. I'm not sure he'd chance it if he has any intention of leaving.

[David]

I just don't think you can underestimate ego in all of this. If he wins with NY, that's all him. That's his team, his championship, his legacy, his city. Again, same thing in Cleveland, but again, it's also just Cleveland.

 

They're getting an IKEA soon.

 

I'm biased, but I'd have to think that right now Cleveland is the best spot for LeBron. They can give him the same salary, the best supporting cast, and it's hometown. I guess he could get marginally more recognition as a Knick, but I don't know why you'd take that gamble with a much worse team around him.

 

 

More recognition and better supporting cast in Chicago. Done.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I just don't think you can underestimate ego in all of this. If he wins with NY, that's all him. That's his team, his championship, his legacy, his city. Again, same thing in Cleveland, but again, it's also just Cleveland.

 

They're getting an IKEA soon.

 

I'm biased, but I'd have to think that right now Cleveland is the best spot for LeBron. They can give him the same salary, the best supporting cast, and it's hometown. I guess he could get marginally more recognition as a Knick, but I don't know why you'd take that gamble with a much worse team around him.

 

 

More recognition and better supporting cast in Chicago. Done.

 

I don't think that'd be the case. Especially the supporting cast.

[Guest]

I just don't think you can underestimate ego in all of this. If he wins with NY, that's all him. That's his team, his championship, his legacy, his city. Again, same thing in Cleveland, but again, it's also just Cleveland.

 

They're getting an IKEA soon.

 

I'm biased, but I'd have to think that right now Cleveland is the best spot for LeBron. They can give him the same salary, the best supporting cast, and it's hometown. I guess he could get marginally more recognition as a Knick, but I don't know why you'd take that gamble with a much worse team around him.

 

 

More recognition and better supporting cast in Chicago. Done.

 

I don't think that'd be the case. Especially the supporting cast.

Other than LeBron, who on Cleveland is as good as Rose is (and is going to be)?

[Derwood]

Cleveland has better big men and more depth (right now)

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Other than LeBron, who on Cleveland is as good as Rose is (and is going to be)?

 

Varejao and probably Williams are more valuable than Rose would be on a team with LeBron.

[SpongeWorthy]

Other than LeBron, who on Cleveland is as good as Rose is (and is going to be)?

 

Varejao and probably Williams are more valuable than Rose would be on a team with LeBron.

 

I think Varejao's very good and pretty underrated but the Bulls have Noah. And he's already getting more love than Varejao. They're very similar with the weird name, hair, and style of play. Mo Williams isn't in the same universe as Derrick Rose. He's nice but he's just another guy ultimately.

 

What you have to worry about is New Jersey being in a position to draft John Wall and possibly deal Devin Harris.

[David]

Cleveland has better big men and more depth (right now)

 

Going forward, I'd take Noah over any of Cleveland's bigs. I probably even would now.

 

I suppose you're right about the depth, but I like our rotation at C/PF right now (as much as I can without a legit post threat).

Edited February 2, 2010 by David

[Magnetic Curses]

Other than LeBron, who on Cleveland is as good as Rose is (and is going to be)?

 

Varejao and probably Williams are more valuable than Rose would be on a team with LeBron.

 

i have no idea how you can say this. noah is better than verajao and williams is nowhere near rose, unless you're saying lebron prefers playing with inferior players.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Other than LeBron, who on Cleveland is as good as Rose is (and is going to be)?

 

Varejao and probably Williams are more valuable than Rose would be on a team with LeBron.

 

I think Varejao's very good and pretty underrated but the Bulls have Noah. And he's already getting more love than Varejao. They're very similar with the weird name, hair, and style of play. Mo Williams isn't in the same universe as Derrick Rose. He's nice but he's just another guy ultimately.

 

Noah and Varejao are similar, although that wasn't really my point. You're right that Williams isn't on the same plane as Rose, if you swapped the two the Bulls would be much worse. However, Rose and LeBron have only one ball to share. That's why a borderline all-star guard like Williams that can shoot means more on a team with LeBron than Rose. Without that spacing the offense loses effectiveness(see Eric Snow's time as a Cavalier for an extreme example).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Other than LeBron, who on Cleveland is as good as Rose is (and is going to be)?

 

Varejao and probably Williams are more valuable than Rose would be on a team with LeBron.

 

i have no idea how you can say this. noah is better than verajao and williams is nowhere near rose, unless you're saying lebron prefers playing with inferior players.

 

I'm saying LeBron prefers playing with guards that can shoot better than 25% from 3, because so much of his game is predicated on getting to the lane.

[Magnetic Curses]

haha, like lebron is going to have trouble getting into the lane on a team with derrick rose on it. the bulls can go get 3 point shooter if they need to, they don't cost much.

 

lebron doesn't need really anyone to do what he does, he can do it anywhere. the question is: would he prefer playing on a team with more talent?

[David]

Other than LeBron, who on Cleveland is as good as Rose is (and is going to be)?

 

Varejao and probably Williams are more valuable than Rose would be on a team with LeBron.

 

i have no idea how you can say this. noah is better than verajao and williams is nowhere near rose, unless you're saying lebron prefers playing with inferior players.

 

I'm saying LeBron prefers playing with guards that can shoot better than 25% from 3, because so much of his game is predicated on getting to the lane.

 

 

There's still another guard spot.

 

You could put JJ Redick there for all I care on that team... or you could keep Hinrich there. I think I'd be ok with that.

 

 

Theoretically, you can trade Salmons to make sure you have the cap room clear for a max contract, and then sign LeBron, do nothing else, and you'd be left with...

 

C-Noah

F-Deng

F-LeBron

G-Hinrich

G-Rose

 

That's not better than the Cavs?

Edited February 2, 2010 by David

[Magnetic Curses]

rose can go anywhere on the court that he wants to, i don't see how you can say that's a bad thing.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There's still another guard spot.

 

You could put JJ Reddick there for all I care on that team... or you could keep Hinrich there. I think I'd be ok with that.

 

I'm sure a team like that would win a lot of games, just not as many as a team that has been optimizing its roster around LeBron for 5 years.

[SpongeWorthy]

Well I think the Cavs have already proved they can win a lot of games. They won 65+ last year didn't they? They're on pace to do the same this year. I guess it comes down to whether LeBron thinks he can be a better long term winner relative to Cleveland elsewhere. I don't think there's something fundamentally wrong with the Cavs that would preclude them from winning it this year. Maybe Mike Brown.

 

The list of teams that haven't won a title winning 65+ regular season games is shorter than the list of teams who have.

[Magnetic Curses]

There's still another guard spot.

 

You could put JJ Reddick there for all I care on that team... or you could keep Hinrich there. I think I'd be ok with that.

 

I'm sure a team like that would win a lot of games, just not as many as a team that has been optimizing its roster around LeBron for 5 years.

 

oh i can't wait for lebron to be a bull.

[Tyrant]

I'm sure a team like that would win a lot of games, just not as many as a team that has been optimizing its roster around LeBron for 5 years.

 

What team has been optimizing its roster around LeBron for the last five years? Because it's not the Cavs.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm sure a team like that would win a lot of games, just not as many as a team that has been optimizing its roster around LeBron for 5 years.

 

What team has been optimizing its roster around LeBron for the last five years? Because it's not the Cavs.

 

Okay, 7 years.

[Andy]

Isn't Cleveland able to offer LeBron more money than another team per some Stern pet rule that basically encourages guys to stay with their teams? I'm not certain of this but I think I've heard it before.

[Sammy Sofa]

Isn't Cleveland able to offer LeBron more money than another team per some Stern pet rule that basically encourages guys to stay with their teams? I'm not certain of this but I think I've heard it before.

 

I don't understand what you're saying here.

 

Are you saying they're allowed to offer him whatever they want regardless of a cap? Because otherwise there's nothing stopping them from offering more than any other team so long as it fits into what they can afford or it keeps them under a cap (if they so wish to be).

[Tyrant]

I'm sure a team like that would win a lot of games, just not as many as a team that has been optimizing its roster around LeBron for 5 years.

 

What team has been optimizing its roster around LeBron for the last five years? Because it's not the Cavs.

 

Okay, 7 years.

 

No team trying to "optimize" around LeBron would bring in a 470 pound Shaq.