Minor League Discussion & Boxes 8-3-2009

[JeffH]

Vitters is no better than our third best prospect, behind Cashner and Castro.

[mul21]

Mr.Cashner is making me feel more and more confident ranking him above Starlin Castro a few days ago. And quite frankly with the way Josh Vitters continues to struggle with his K/BB ratio I'm contemplating putting Cashner ahead of him as well.

 

We can all agree on one thing: the Cubs are not among the elite organizations when it comes to improving the plate discipline of aggressive young power hitters. If Vitters were an Athletic I'd have much more confidence in his long term future. Bare minimum barring injuries Cashner will be a dominant late inning reliever. Best case scenario with continued offspeed pitch improvement he'll be a top of the rotation starter. If Vitters continues to flail away at pitchers pitches his long term future looks a lot less bright.

 

When did he start flailing away at pitches? He doesn't walk a lot yet, but he certainly hasn't been a strikeout machine by any means either.

[Guest]

Another solid start, on paper, for Justin Bristow. I'd be curious if Nate had anything to add in regards to how Bristow has looked. 5 ip, 4 h, 2 r, 6 k's, 1 HR, 5 ground balls, 4 flyouts. Last year's draft class feels like one of those classes that Tim Wilken might be able to hang his out on, like the 03 (?) Rays draft.

 

Bristow's last 3 starts:

 

16 IP, 14 H, 4 ER, 1 BB, 18 K, 2.25 ERA.

 

Heck, he's 23-1 K-BB in his last 5 starts (21 innings). Not too shabby.

[StylesClash]

Mr.Cashner is making me feel more and more confident ranking him above Starlin Castro a few days ago. And quite frankly with the way Josh Vitters continues to struggle with his K/BB ratio I'm contemplating putting Cashner ahead of him as well.

 

We can all agree on one thing: the Cubs are not among the elite organizations when it comes to improving the plate discipline of aggressive young power hitters. If Vitters were an Athletic I'd have much more confidence in his long term future. Bare minimum barring injuries Cashner will be a dominant late inning reliever. Best case scenario with continued offspeed pitch improvement he'll be a top of the rotation starter. If Vitters continues to flail away at pitchers pitches his long term future looks a lot less bright.

 

When did he start flailing away at pitches? He doesn't walk a lot yet, but he certainly hasn't been a strikeout machine by any means either.

 

Flailing was the wrong term to use. But Vitters' biggest strength has always been contact, and as of right now he's hitting under 230 in A ball. Now granted he's young for his league, but eventually he'll need to learn which pitches he can drive with force and which he'll hit hit weakly. For every Vladimir Guerrero who excels despite swinging at anything in the strikezone, there's ten top prospects who fail because of this trait.

 

Now getting back to the key topic at hand: bare minimum Andrew Cashner will put himself in the conversation to be the Cubs top prospect at seasons end. I'll be interested to read the scouting reports assessing his slider and changeup progress.

[toonsterwu]

Another solid start, on paper, for Justin Bristow. I'd be curious if Nate had anything to add in regards to how Bristow has looked. 5 ip, 4 h, 2 r, 6 k's, 1 HR, 5 ground balls, 4 flyouts. Last year's draft class feels like one of those classes that Tim Wilken might be able to hang his out on, like the 03 (?) Rays draft.

 

Bristow's last 3 starts:

 

16 IP, 14 H, 4 ER, 1 BB, 18 K, 2.25 ERA.

 

Heck, he's 23-1 K-BB in his last 5 starts (21 innings). Not too shabby.

 

The exciting part for me is what might happen in 2010, with more time for him to get back into form, with more experience as a full time pitcher, and with more physical maturation (doesn't necessarily mean getting bigger, but adjusting to his body is a facet as well). The good athleticism and solid enough performances so far have me hoping for a breakthrough in 2010. Very hopeful there.

[toonsterwu]

Vitters is no better than our third best prospect, behind Cashner and Castro.

 

Everyone certainly grades differently. For me, while I am not a big Vitters fan (I've fully admitted all year, on other sites, that there were moments, during Jackson's hot streak, where I pondered him as the Cubs top prospect ... certainly not now), I think Vitters holds the most upside in the system. He's still young enough that I'm not that bothered by struggles (fellow top draftee Moustakas struggled a bit in his High A bump), and the scouting reports don't indicate a flaw in batting approach, so I guess I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Don't get me wrong, I have my concerns, but I just don't see enough to say that Castro has passed him (I think a reasonable case can probably be made for Cashner, depending on how the season finishes, right now I'd still put Vitters ahead of Cashner). I'm not worried about Castro's defense that much, but he's still a raw kid, and I'm very curious how his body adjusts as he physically matures (in this case, he'll probably add some weight). Just a lot of unknowns, and Vitters upside is better, so that's why I'd have Vitters ahead of Castro.

[sandbergcubs]

Castro and Chirinos to AA

 

Reed and Samson to Daytona

[Guest]

Castro and Chirinos to AA

 

Reed and Samson to Daytona

 

Holy crap.

 

That's a bit too aggressive for my liking.

[Guest]

uh....wow

 

Now that I think of it, on the broadcast today Hendry was praising Fleita for his aggressiveness in "challenging" guys. However, this seems a bit extreme. Castro has had a great year when all things are considered, but has a number of things he needs to work on.

 

Perhaps the team felt that they needed to promote him to a point where he would struggle unless he worked on his plate discipline?

[CUBZ99]

Castro and Chirinos to AA

 

Reed and Samson to Daytona

 

Haha Castro to AA? Isn't he only 18 or 19? I guess why not. No matter what he will start out at AA next year, so give him a taste of AA and see what he does?

 

Edit: Wow, Castro was terrible in April, but since May he has been outstanding. I don't see a problem with this move. Its amazing looking at his stats post-April to realize how well he has done in high-A as a 19 year old.

[Wrigley Rat]

And you guys don't want to add Maestri to the 40-man.

I get the playful razzing above, but...

Without getting to see these players, all we have to go on is what we read. A lot of us don't have access to the pay sites, so I rely on the people here for my information. I haven't heard anything about Maestri pitching 96 mph on his FB or that his slider was causing people to swing and miss so badly that they fall over in the batter's box.

 

Knowing that information, I feel a lot better about using a 40-man roster spot on him. :grin:

[Guest]

Knoxville News-Sentinel[/url]"]Soto caught Cashner in spring training until the pitcher suffered aninjury. He was impressed with Cashner's development.

 

"He's commanding his fastball," Soto said. "He is learning to use his fastball more."

 

Cashner's heater was clocked in the mid-90s.

 

"His breaking pitch was there," Soto said. "All he needs to do is trust his stuff."

 

The Smokies bungled a tailor-made double-play ball in the second, allowing Carolina to score. But the error brought out the best in Cashner. He struck out the next two Mudcats and retired 12 in a row.

 

"He is a pitcher with great maturity," Soto said. "He is a great talent, too."

 

Soto said Cubs manager Lou Piniella and the organization are taking note.

 

"Lou got him here to work on his stuff," he said. "They (Cubs) are really paying attention and know what's going on."

[Wrigley Rat]

Castro and Chirinos to AA

 

Reed and Samson to Daytona

 

Holy crap.

 

That's a bit too aggressive for my liking.

+1

[Guest]

Knoxville News-Sentinel[/url]"]Soto caught Cashner in spring training until the pitcher suffered aninjury. He was impressed with Cashner's development.

 

"He's commanding his fastball," Soto said. "He is learning to use his fastball more."

 

Cashner's heater was clocked in the mid-90s.

 

"His breaking pitch was there," Soto said. "All he needs to do is trust his stuff."

 

The Smokies bungled a tailor-made double-play ball in the second, allowing Carolina to score. But the error brought out the best in Cashner. He struck out the next two Mudcats and retired 12 in a row.

 

"He is a pitcher with great maturity," Soto said. "He is a great talent, too."

 

Soto said Cubs manager Lou Piniella and the organization are taking note.

 

"Lou got him here to work on his stuff," he said. "They (Cubs) are really paying attention and know what's going on."

yeah...

 

They're gonna call him up if he keeps pitching well.

[UK1679666180]

Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 9:38 am

Posts: 17155 Just got back from Beloit. Good game despite the btm of the 8th...

 

Jackson has now endeared himself to me after he scored on the DB by Flaherty. He was on 1B after the BB, he can really run, and there was a play at the plate that wasn't real close. The C for Beloit was well in front of the plate almost on the grass and the ball and Jackson are there at the same time and Jackson decides to give the C a little forearm shot to the chest instead of just avoiding him which he could've did standing up.

 

Nate, did Bristow get injured?

 

It was weird b/c in the 5th Bristow's velo had dropped to 86-88 for about 5-6 pitches after finishing his last pitch at 92 after he was 90-94 the 1st 4 IP. I think Bristow long-term is going to end up as a righty specialist, he has effort in his delivery now and with his FB/slider combo that'll be his best bet as he progresses.

 

Beliveau

FB: 87-90

Slurve:73-74

 

Real deceptive delivery, all his strikeouts were off his FB and no swings and misses off his slurve which he only threw a handful of times. It looks like it coming out of his hand at 84MPH and then it's on the hitter, the Beloit hitters were late on all of his FBs, he's so small and that ball explodes out of there. It had decent arm side run but was nothing special as far as movement.

 

De Leon:

FB:87-90

SL:80-82

CH/Splitter:83-84

 

Another deceptive delivery, it reminds of hitting in cages and it's on fastest where all of a sudden, you watch that ball slide down to be shot at you and there it is. He really doesn't have a stride so it's hard to time him. But he really didn't have good stuff tonite. Even with that delivery, I thought his stuff marginal. He's too young and hasn't been off the Island long enough to have such a bad body.

[Guest]

btw - what happened to cerda? He hasn't played anywhere since June.

[Guest]

Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 9:38 am

Posts: 17155 Just got back from Beloit. Good game despite the btm of the 8th...

 

Jackson has now endeared himself to me after he scored on the DB by Flaherty. He was on 1B after the BB, he can really run, and there was a play at the plate that wasn't real close. The C for Beloit was well in front of the plate almost on the grass and the ball and Jackson are there at the same time and Jackson decides to give the C a little forearm shot to the chest instead of just avoiding him which he could've did standing up.

 

Nate, did Bristow get injured?

 

It was weird b/c in the 5th Bristow's velo had dropped to 86-88 for about 5-6 pitches after finishing his last pitch at 92 after he was 90-94 the 1st 4 IP. I think Bristow long-term is going to end up as a righty specialist, he has effort in his delivery now and with his FB/slider combo that'll be his best bet as he progresses.

 

Beliveau

FB: 87-90

Slurve:73-74

 

Real deceptive delivery, all his strikeouts were off his FB and no swings and misses off his slurve which he only threw a handful of times. It looks like it coming out of his hand at 84MPH and then it's on the hitter, the Beloit hitters were late on all of his FBs, he's so small and that ball explodes out of there. It had decent arm side run but was nothing special as far as movement.

 

De Leon:

FB:87-90

SL:80-82

CH/Splitter:83-84

 

Another deceptive delivery, it reminds of hitting in cages and it's on fastest where all of a sudden, you watch that ball slide down to be shot at you and there it is. He really doesn't have a stride so it's hard to time him. But he really didn't have good stuff tonite. Even with that delivery, I thought his stuff marginal. He's too young and hasn't been off the Island long enough to have such a bad body.

thx, uk.

 

Everyone loves how Jackson plays the game...just wish he'd make more contact. How'd he look at the plate to you?

[Guest]

btw - what happened to cerda? He hasn't played anywhere since June.

 

Broken hamate bone in his hand.

[Guest]

 

http://muskat.mlblogs.com/Soto-Cashner_-_8.3.jpg

 

 

If only Carrie Muskat could shrink pics.

[UK1679666180]

 

Everyone loves how Jackson plays the game...just wish he'd make more contact. How'd he look at the plate to you?

 

He's got some bat speed, somewhat level maybe too much of an uppercut at this stage, but has some decent pop. I don't think he's going to be an all-star at the plate. He might be someone that can hit .275-.285 with 10-20 HRs per year and play CF'er. He can get pull happy at times and that might hurt his avg. as he progresses. His 2 BBs weren't counts where he had to work they were both all balls that were well out of the zone (low and away).

 

I think I he'll be better than the draft day reports from BA and PG.

[Guest]

btw - what happened to cerda? He hasn't played anywhere since June.

 

Broken hamate bone in his hand.

thanks...and that sucks. IMO, that's an injury that can haunt a hitter for a long time.

[Guest]

http://muskat.mlblogs.com/Soto-Cashner_-_8.3.jpg

 

 

If only Carrie Muskat could shrink pics.

I don't think Geo did much working out while on the DL.

[Guest]

 

Everyone loves how Jackson plays the game...just wish he'd make more contact. How'd he look at the plate to you?

 

He's got some bat speed, somewhat level maybe too much of an uppercut at this stage, but has some decent pop. I don't think he's going to be an all-star at the plate. He might be someone that can hit .275-.285 with 10-20 HRs per year and play CF'er. He can get pull happy at times and that might hurt his avg. as he progresses. His 2 BBs weren't counts where he had to work they were both all balls that were well out of the zone (low and away).

 

I think I he'll be better than the draft day reports from BA and PG.

Thanks.

[Outshined_One]

 

Everyone loves how Jackson plays the game...just wish he'd make more contact. How'd he look at the plate to you?

 

He's got some bat speed, somewhat level maybe too much of an uppercut at this stage, but has some decent pop. I don't think he's going to be an all-star at the plate. He might be someone that can hit .275-.285 with 10-20 HRs per year and play CF'er. He can get pull happy at times and that might hurt his avg. as he progresses. His 2 BBs weren't counts where he had to work they were both all balls that were well out of the zone (low and away).

 

I think I he'll be better than the draft day reports from BA and PG.

 

Thanks for your reports! How did LeMahieu look?

[bubblesdachimp]

i like the castro move