There is NO excuse for this train wreck.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Did you think Fontenot was really capable of being a starter in the majors?

 

Adam Dunn was my first choice and I still don't understand why he wasn't signed. Bradley isn't the best on defense either.

 

I really did. I didnt think hed do what he did in ST, but I thought he could be a solid .280/.800 15-20 HR type of player. I woulndt have traded DeRosa though, Id have prefered let DeRosas contract run out and then give Font a chance in 2010 and hope for Type A status for DeRosa. But again, I couldnt have foreseen the series of events that would have followed and how much we would have needed him.

 

Imagine if we lost Zambrano or Lilly for 6-8 weeks, and Sean Marshall proved to be garbage, maybe a lot of people would be criticizing Hendry for trading Marquis. Hindsight is 20/20.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Little Slide Rooter

[DiamondMind]

 

And I really hope to God that anyone who wants Lou fired seriously does not want Brenly to replace him.

 

Why not?

 

Because Brenly was a pretty bad manager who rode an amazing starting rotation to a WS. I'm not saying this as a fan of Lou because I was not a big fan of hiring him in the first place, but I definitely do not want Brenly. Bob seems like good people and I really like him as the color guy but I do not want him managing the Cubs.

 

I'm very curious if people wanting Brenly managing now wanted him for the job back after 2006. Wanting Brenly just screams of change for the sake of change. Plus, let's be clear: if Lou quits or is fired before the end of the season Trammel will finish the job.

 

I don't think I'd have much of an issue with Brenly managing. I don't disagree with much of anything I hear him say on the air. And any manager that wins championships usually has a star player or two (or three, or four), so I think its pretty shortsighted and at worse unfair to hold that against him.

 

With that said though, if I had a choice, I'd rather give a shot to Trammell.

 

edit - to the other subtopic in this thread, I thought fontenot would be half decent as a starter too. I didnt expect that 900 ops from his utility role last year, but I did expect like a 775-825 ops coupled with way better defense and consistency.

[dew1679666265]

I don't mind Lou but who would be a viable replacement if came to it? I'm sure Trammel would become the guy for the time being, but who would be considered for 2010? Sandberg?

 

I'm just as pissed as everyone else but firing Lou isn't going to do much. I think he's done after the season anyway because he just doesn't seem like the passion is there anymore.

 

Likely managerial candidates:

 

Alan Trammel

Bob Brenly

Larry Rothschild

Ryne Sandberg

Steve Stone?

Davey Johnson?

Willie Randolph

 

I'm sure there are some young candidates I'm not thinking of, but this would be the primary group, I suspect.

[JeffH]

I don't mind Lou but who would be a viable replacement if came to it? I'm sure Trammel would become the guy for the time being, but who would be considered for 2010? Sandberg?

 

I'm just as pissed as everyone else but firing Lou isn't going to do much. I think he's done after the season anyway because he just doesn't seem like the passion is there anymore.

 

Likely managerial candidates:

 

Alan Trammel

Bob Brenly

Larry Rothschild

Ryne Sandberg

Steve Stone?

Davey Johnson?

Willie Randolph

 

I'm sure there are some young candidates I'm not thinking of, but this would be the primary group, I suspect.

 

Jody Davis.

[dew1679666265]

 

And I really hope to God that anyone who wants Lou fired seriously does not want Brenly to replace him.

 

Why not?

 

Because Brenly was a pretty bad manager who rode an amazing starting rotation to a WS. I'm not saying this as a fan of Lou because I was not a big fan of hiring him in the first place, but I definitely do not want Brenly. Bob seems like good people and I really like him as the color guy but I do not want him managing the Cubs.

 

I'm very curious if people wanting Brenly managing now wanted him for the job back after 2006. Wanting Brenly just screams of change for the sake of change. Plus, let's be clear: if Lou quits or is fired before the end of the season Trammel will finish the job.

 

I don't think I'd have much of an issue with Brenly managing. I don't disagree with much of anything I hear him say on the air. And any manager that wins championships usually has a star player or two (or three, or four), so I think its pretty shortsighted and at worse unfair to hold that against him.

 

With that said though, if I had a choice, I'd rather give a shot to Trammell.

 

edit - to the other subtopic in this thread, I thought fontenot would be half decent as a starter too. I didnt expect that 900 ops from his utility role last year, but I did expect like a 775-825 ops coupled with way better defense and consistency.

 

The main problem a lot of people have with Brenly is that he'd likely be a very hands-on manager - i.e. lots of sac bunts, double switches, steals, hits and runs, etc.

 

I think he did a good deal of that in Arizona as well.

[dew1679666265]

I don't mind Lou but who would be a viable replacement if came to it? I'm sure Trammel would become the guy for the time being, but who would be considered for 2010? Sandberg?

 

I'm just as pissed as everyone else but firing Lou isn't going to do much. I think he's done after the season anyway because he just doesn't seem like the passion is there anymore.

 

Likely managerial candidates:

 

Alan Trammel

Bob Brenly

Larry Rothschild

Ryne Sandberg

Steve Stone?

Davey Johnson?

Willie Randolph

 

I'm sure there are some young candidates I'm not thinking of, but this would be the primary group, I suspect.

 

Jody Davis.

 

Didn't he show interest before Hendry hired Lou?

 

I've also got to throw out the obligatory mention of Larry Dierker as well.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

The main problem a lot of people have with Brenly is that he'd likely be a very hands-on manager - i.e. lots of sac bunts, double switches, steals, hits and runs, etc.

 

 

Oh, you mean a manager who is aggressive and plays smart baseball? That's a problem? :scratch:

[SouthSideRyan]

The main problem a lot of people have with Brenly is that he'd likely be a very hands-on manager - i.e. lots of sac bunts, double switches, steals, hits and runs, etc.

 

 

Oh, you mean a manager who is aggressive and plays smart baseball? That's a problem? :scratch:

 

Lots of sac bunts, steals, and hits and runs is not smart baseball. It's usually dumb baseball.

[dew1679666265]

The main problem a lot of people have with Brenly is that he'd likely be a very hands-on manager - i.e. lots of sac bunts, double switches, steals, hits and runs, etc.

 

 

Oh, you mean a manager who is aggressive and plays smart baseball? That's a problem? :scratch:

 

It's also argued that all of that is giving away outs and playing for one run instead of the big inning.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

The main problem a lot of people have with Brenly is that he'd likely be a very hands-on manager - i.e. lots of sac bunts, double switches, steals, hits and runs, etc.

 

 

Oh, you mean a manager who is aggressive and plays smart baseball? That's a problem? :scratch:

 

Lots of sac bunts, steals, and hits and runs is not smart baseball. It's usually dumb baseball.

 

Stealing bases and hit and running is dumb baseball? Hehe. Good one. Yes, I prefer the brand of Baseball we have seen for decades and decades. Bad fundamentals and slow, dumb sluggers.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

The main problem a lot of people have with Brenly is that he'd likely be a very hands-on manager - i.e. lots of sac bunts, double switches, steals, hits and runs, etc.

 

 

Oh, you mean a manager who is aggressive and plays smart baseball? That's a problem? :scratch:

 

It's also argued that all of that is giving away outs and playing for one run instead of the big inning.

 

If we could score 4-5 runs a game on a consistent basis, we'd be in first. I'm sure Brenly could find a way to do just that. Lou is going through the motions out there.

[dew1679666265]

The main problem a lot of people have with Brenly is that he'd likely be a very hands-on manager - i.e. lots of sac bunts, double switches, steals, hits and runs, etc.

 

 

Oh, you mean a manager who is aggressive and plays smart baseball? That's a problem? :scratch:

 

Lots of sac bunts, steals, and hits and runs is not smart baseball. It's usually dumb baseball.

 

Stealing bases and hit and running is dumb baseball? Hehe. Good one. Yes, I prefer the brand of Baseball we have seen for decades and decades. Bad fundamentals and slow, dumb sluggers.

 

Throughout the Dusty years we had guys like Neifi Perez, Corey Patterson, Jose Macias, Freddie Bynum, Jerry Hairston, etc. playing the kind of baseball you're promoting.

 

Last year was the first year in a while that we've been an OBP-heavy, patient team (maybe 2007 as well, though that was a bit of a transition year).

[ChiCubsfan0502]

The main problem a lot of people have with Brenly is that he'd likely be a very hands-on manager - i.e. lots of sac bunts, double switches, steals, hits and runs, etc.

 

 

Oh, you mean a manager who is aggressive and plays smart baseball? That's a problem? :scratch:

 

Lots of sac bunts, steals, and hits and runs is not smart baseball. It's usually dumb baseball.

 

Stealing bases and hit and running is dumb baseball? Hehe. Good one. Yes, I prefer the brand of Baseball we have seen for decades and decades. Bad fundamentals and slow, dumb sluggers.

 

Throughout the Dusty years we had guys like Neifi Perez, Corey Patterson, Jose Macias, Freddie Bynum, Jerry Hairston, etc. playing the kind of baseball you're promoting.

 

Last year was the first year in a while that we've been an OBP-heavy, patient team (maybe 2007 as well, though that was a bit of a transition year).

 

Ok, you just picked some of the worst (And dumbest) players the Cubs have had in the last decade. I think Brenly would get the type of players he'd want, not the stiffs you just mentioned.

[Sammy Sofa]

Ok, you just picked some of the worst (And dumbest) players the Cubs have had in the last decade. I think Brenly would get the type of players he'd want, not the stiffs you just mentioned.

 

And you just assume the players Brenly would want (which aren't necessarily anyone they could get) would be good?

 

And why do you assume that he'd upend the team or even be able to? It's not like managers come in and get all, most or even some of the players they want.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I don't mind Lou but who would be a viable replacement if came to it? I'm sure Trammel would become the guy for the time being, but who would be considered for 2010? Sandberg?

 

I'm just as pissed as everyone else but firing Lou isn't going to do much. I think he's done after the season anyway because he just doesn't seem like the passion is there anymore.

 

Likely managerial candidates:

 

Alan Trammel

Bob Brenly

Larry Rothschild

Ryne Sandberg

Steve Stone?

Davey Johnson?

Willie Randolph

 

I'm sure there are some young candidates I'm not thinking of, but this would be the primary group, I suspect.

 

Jody Davis.

 

ANy chance Bobby Valentine could be persuaded to come back to our side of the pond?

[ChiCubsfan0502]

Ok, you just picked some of the worst (And dumbest) players the Cubs have had in the last decade. I think Brenly would get the type of players he'd want, not the stiffs you just mentioned.

 

And you just assume the players Brenly would want (which aren't necessarily anyone they could get) would be good?

 

Not hard to best the group of bums he just mentioned. I think Brenly is very baseball smart and he certainly knows what the expectations are here. After the ownership issue is settled, I'd can Lou and give Bob a chance.

[dew1679666265]

Ok, you just picked some of the worst (And dumbest) players the Cubs have had in the last decade. I think Brenly would get the type of players he'd want, not the stiffs you just mentioned.

 

Those are the kinds of player managers target to play small ball. While with the Diamondbacks, Brenly brought in players such as Craig Counsell, Junior Spivey and Alex Cintron. Similar players to the guys I mentioned.

[Sammy Sofa]

Ok, you just picked some of the worst (And dumbest) players the Cubs have had in the last decade. I think Brenly would get the type of players he'd want, not the stiffs you just mentioned.

 

And you just assume the players Brenly would want (which aren't necessarily anyone they could get) would be good?

 

Not hard to best the group of bums he just mentioned. I think Brenly is very baseball smart and he certainly knows what the expectations are here. After the ownership issue is settled, I'd can Lou and give Bob a chance.

 

Well, you clearly just have an old school way of looking at things that favors giving away outs.

[dew1679666265]

The main problem a lot of people have with Brenly is that he'd likely be a very hands-on manager - i.e. lots of sac bunts, double switches, steals, hits and runs, etc.

 

 

Oh, you mean a manager who is aggressive and plays smart baseball? That's a problem? :scratch:

 

It's also argued that all of that is giving away outs and playing for one run instead of the big inning.

 

If we could score 4-5 runs a game on a consistent basis, we'd be in first. I'm sure Brenly could find a way to do just that. Lou is going through the motions out there.

 

Brenly's teams scored 5 runs a game his first two seasons, 4 runs a game in 2003 and 3 runs a game in 2004.

 

The Cubs under Lou have scored 4 runs a game in 2007 and 5 runs a game in 2008. They're scoring 4 runs a game so far this year.

[dew1679666265]

I don't mind Lou but who would be a viable replacement if came to it? I'm sure Trammel would become the guy for the time being, but who would be considered for 2010? Sandberg?

 

I'm just as pissed as everyone else but firing Lou isn't going to do much. I think he's done after the season anyway because he just doesn't seem like the passion is there anymore.

 

Likely managerial candidates:

 

Alan Trammel

Bob Brenly

Larry Rothschild

Ryne Sandberg

Steve Stone?

Davey Johnson?

Willie Randolph

 

I'm sure there are some young candidates I'm not thinking of, but this would be the primary group, I suspect.

 

Jody Davis.

 

ANy chance Bobby Valentine could be persuaded to come back to our side of the pond?

 

He'd be an interesting choice. I don't remember enough about his tendencies to know how I'd feel about him.

 

I've always liked his personality, though.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

Ok, you just picked some of the worst (And dumbest) players the Cubs have had in the last decade. I think Brenly would get the type of players he'd want, not the stiffs you just mentioned.

 

And you just assume the players Brenly would want (which aren't necessarily anyone they could get) would be good?

 

Not hard to best the group of bums he just mentioned. I think Brenly is very baseball smart and he certainly knows what the expectations are here. After the ownership issue is settled, I'd can Lou and give Bob a chance.

 

Well, you clearly just have an old school way of looking at things that favors giving away outs.

 

For years the Cubs have been built to slug the ball at the expense of being a smart and fundamentally sound team. I want a smart team that can move a runner from second to third with no one out, rather then a slugger who swings for the fences and pops up or grounds to short in that situation.

 

Obviously, you need some power in the mix, but this team, like the majority of the teams we've been graced with over the years, doesn't know how to play the game.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't mind Lou but who would be a viable replacement if came to it? I'm sure Trammel would become the guy for the time being, but who would be considered for 2010? Sandberg?

 

I'm just as pissed as everyone else but firing Lou isn't going to do much. I think he's done after the season anyway because he just doesn't seem like the passion is there anymore.

 

Likely managerial candidates:

 

Alan Trammel

Bob Brenly

Larry Rothschild

Ryne Sandberg

Steve Stone?

Davey Johnson?

Willie Randolph

 

I'm sure there are some young candidates I'm not thinking of, but this would be the primary group, I suspect.

 

Jody Davis.

 

ANy chance Bobby Valentine could be persuaded to come back to our side of the pond?

 

He'd be an interesting choice. I don't remember enough about his tendencies to know how I'd feel about him.

 

I've always liked his personality, though.

 

Me too. In no way do I think he'd be a lock to be a good choice, but he's definitely one that interests me if he can be pursuaded.

 

There's always the dream hire of Larry Dierker, but that's not gonna happen.

[dew1679666265]

For years the Cubs have been built to slug the ball at the expense of being a smart and fundamentally sound team. I want a smart team that can move a runner from second to third with no one out, rather then a slugger who swings for the fences and pops up or grounds to short in that situation.

 

Obviously, you need some power in the mix, but this team, like the majority of the teams we've been graced with over the years, doesn't know how to play the game.

 

I've never understood this sentiment. In 2003, the Cubs slugged .416 and attempted 104 stolen bases. In 2004, they slugged .458 and attempted 94 SBs. But after that, they went to a .440 SLG and 104 SB attempts. Then to a .422 SLG and 170 SB attempts in 2006.

 

Their best overall record out of those seasons (all under Dusty) was 2004 - highest SLG and lowest SB attempts. As the slugging dropped and SB attempts increased, their record got increasingly worse.

 

In 2004 (their best year) their .458 SLG led the league, while they were below league average in SBs. They dropped to 2nd in SLG in 2005 and were third from the bottom in SBs. In 2006 (the worst year) they were 11th in the NL in SLG and 6th in SBs.

 

They were very much a station-to-station team from 2003-2004 - and they were good teams then. As they became more of a small ball team - and brought in the players to play that style - their overall record got worse.

[Larry Horse]

All the analysis and hand wringing in the world is not going to change the fact that the Bradley, Soriano and Fuko contracts will hamstring this team. Unless they are willing to start trading pitching.

 

Just check out those outfield stats vs salary paid. Doesn't get much worse than that.

[Banedon]

 

And I really hope to God that anyone who wants Lou fired seriously does not want Brenly to replace him.

 

Why not?

 

Because Brenly was a pretty bad manager who rode an amazing starting rotation to a WS. I'm not saying this as a fan of Lou because I was not a big fan of hiring him in the first place, but I definitely do not want Brenly. Bob seems like good people and I really like him as the color guy but I do not want him managing the Cubs.

 

I'm very curious if people wanting Brenly managing now wanted him for the job back after 2006. Wanting Brenly just screams of change for the sake of change. Plus, let's be clear: if Lou quits or is fired before the end of the season Trammel will finish the job.

 

I did. But I recognize that there were many on the board that didn't agree. I'm curious what managers wouldn't do hit and runs and bunts and steals and what not. I mean, I get why people don't like it...I just don't think having a manager that doesn't do that is terribly realistic.