Time for a 3-way deal

[illiniguy]

 

As Tiger said earlier in the thread, Teahen is not a free agent after the year. He still will be in his arbitration years.

This. Teahan isn't going anywhere unless it's for seomthing of pretty good value. He's what they netted for Beltran, along with John Buck.

[Backtobanks]

There are three things I see wrong with this potential deal:

 

1) If the Royals are in fact ready to wave the white flag, it would make absolutely no sense to trade away a player still under organizational control for a couple years in return for older, more expensive options.

The Royals are in a weak division and have a gigantic hole at SS. Guzman would be a decent SS for 2009 and 2010. 2 1/2 years of Teahen will be more expensive than 1 1/2 years of Guzman. Also, dumping Mahay and Cruz help the money situation.

 

2) The Nats may need pitching, but they don't need stopgap bullpen retreads, or to add salary for the sake of salary matching deals. If they're not getting actual prospects, there's no reason to make a deal.

The Nationals need whatever they can get. If they flip Cruz and/or Mahay for prospects along with Cotts and Hart/Patton, they could end up with 3-4 prospects.

 

3) The Cubs would essentially be getting the best 2 players in a 10 player deal, and giving up no players that belong on a major league team while at the same time aren't prospects. That just isn't ever going to happen.

 

The only reason I included Beimel was to level the money issue. I don't have a problem removing him from the deal or throwing another prospect into the deal someplace.

 

So, besides the Royals waving a white flag to get older and more expensive , the Nats picking up other teams' retreads and trash to take their shot to win this year, and the Cubs getting 2 players for nothing of value, this deal makes sense.

[Little Slide Rooter]

 

As Tiger said earlier in the thread, Teahen is not a free agent after the year. He still will be in his arbitration years.

This. Teahan isn't going anywhere unless it's for seomthing of pretty good value. He's what they netted for Beltran, along with John Buck.

 

If we sent them 1 of Kevin Hart, Jeff Stevens, Randy Wells, Mitch Atkins and maybe 2 of Steve Clevenger, Darwin Barney, Marquez Smith, Ryan Flaherty, Sam Fuld, Josh Harrison, Rebel Ridling, Kyler Burke, that could be good enough.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Okay, here's the deal: You can't just keep piling on mediocrities and expect a team to bite.

 

One actually good prospect is worth more than half-a-dozen mediocrities.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I keep telling my wife this but she's not game.

 

winner

[Little Slide Rooter]

Okay, here's the deal: You can't just keep piling on mediocrities and expect a team to bite.

 

One actually good prospect is worth more than half-a-dozen mediocrities.

 

We dont have many of these good prospects you speak of, We have Vitters, and hes pretty much untopuchable. We have Samrdzjia, who has a NTC and whose stock is falling. We have Jackson and Cashner who might generate some interest, but Hendrys generated something out of nothing in the past, and hopefully he can do it again without giving up too much as far as talent, so hopefully we can deal in quantity over quality.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Okay, here's the deal: You can't just keep piling on mediocrities and expect a team to bite.

 

One actually good prospect is worth more than half-a-dozen mediocrities.

 

We dont have many of these good prospects you speak of, We have Vitters, and hes pretty much untopuchable. We have Samrdzjia, who has a NTC and whose stock is falling. We have Jackson and Cashner who might generate some interest, but Hendrys generated something out of nothing in the past, and hopefully he can do it again without giving up too much as far as talent, so hopefully we can deal in quantity over quality.

 

Nobody takes quantity over quality. This is one of the many reasons we are in a bad situation.

[Backtobanks]

Okay, here's the deal: You can't just keep piling on mediocrities and expect a team to bite.

 

One actually good prospect is worth more than half-a-dozen mediocrities.

 

We dont have many of these good prospects you speak of, We have Vitters, and hes pretty much untopuchable. We have Samrdzjia, who has a NTC and whose stock is falling. We have Jackson and Cashner who might generate some interest, but Hendrys generated something out of nothing in the past, and hopefully he can do it again without giving up too much as far as talent, so hopefully we can deal in quantity over quality.

 

Nobody takes quantity over quality. This is one of the many reasons we are in a bad situation.

 

I would think it all depends on who you're trading for. Nobody should be talking about a team's top prospect for someone like Teahen.

[NCCubFan]

First problem - Patton cannot be traded without first passing through waivers (I believe)

Not true. Rule 5 players can be traded, but then the new team would have the same obligation to keep him on the major league roster all year or offer him back to the original team. I don't think Patton went through waivers when the Cubs traded for him, and Josh Hamilton didn't go through waivers when the Cubs traded him.

[dew1679666265]

First problem - Patton cannot be traded without first passing through waivers (I believe)

Not true. Rule 5 players can be traded, but then the new team would have the same obligation to keep him on the major league roster all year or offer him back to the original team. I don't think Patton went through waivers when the Cubs traded for him, and Josh Hamilton didn't go through waivers when the Cubs traded him.

 

I thought for sure there was some reason why we couldn't easily just deal Patton. That's a good point on Hamilton that I didn't think of, though.

[dew1679666265]

Okay, here's the deal: You can't just keep piling on mediocrities and expect a team to bite.

 

One actually good prospect is worth more than half-a-dozen mediocrities.

 

We dont have many of these good prospects you speak of, We have Vitters, and hes pretty much untopuchable. We have Samrdzjia, who has a NTC and whose stock is falling. We have Jackson and Cashner who might generate some interest, but Hendrys generated something out of nothing in the past, and hopefully he can do it again without giving up too much as far as talent, so hopefully we can deal in quantity over quality.

 

Nobody takes quantity over quality. This is one of the many reasons we are in a bad situation.

 

I would think it all depends on who you're trading for. Nobody should be talking about a team's top prospect for someone like Teahen.

 

There's a large gap between the Cubs' best prospect and the players you brought up in the trade proposal.

 

A few mid-range prospects (Castillo, Jackson, etc types maybe) might get the Royals interested. Miles, Cotts, Hart and Patton aren't in that league, though.

 

Teahen isn't a great player, but he has value and he's cheap. That's very important and valuable to a low-budget, slowly building team.

[illiniguy]

 

As Tiger said earlier in the thread, Teahen is not a free agent after the year. He still will be in his arbitration years.

This. Teahan isn't going anywhere unless it's for seomthing of pretty good value. He's what they netted for Beltran, along with John Buck.

 

If we sent them 1 of Kevin Hart, Jeff Stevens, Randy Wells, Mitch Atkins and maybe 2 of Steve Clevenger, Darwin Barney, Marquez Smith, Ryan Flaherty, Sam Fuld, Josh Harrison, Rebel Ridling, Kyler Burke, that could be good enough.

No it wouldn't the Royals are loaded with good pitching prospects.

 

Tim Melville

Danny Duffy

Michael Montgomery

Daniel Cortes

Danny Guttierrez

Aaron Crow

 

Our pitchers you named wouldn't be enough to even get them interested for their version of Mark DeRosa.

You want Teahan you better be willing to go Jake Fox, Chris Carpenter, and Jay Jackson.

[davearm2]

Why would the Royals want to give up a guy who hits, isn't super expensive, can play 6 positions, and they have under control for a bit longer? Especially for some prospects that aren't very good?

This describes the DeRosa/Indians trade to a Tee.

 

Who knows. Maybe the Royals have their own version of the Cubs' wanting to get more lefthanded.

 

Heck everyone seems to be down on the Pirates for the McLouth trade too. Point being you never know what the other side might say yes to.

[dew1679666265]

Why would the Royals want to give up a guy who hits, isn't super expensive, can play 6 positions, and they have under control for a bit longer? Especially for some prospects that aren't very good?

This describes the DeRosa/Indians trade to a Tee.

 

Who knows. Maybe the Royals have their own version of the Cubs' wanting to get more lefthanded.

 

Heck everyone seems to be down on the Pirates for the McLouth trade too. Point being you never know what the other side might say yes to.

 

The Teahen/DeRosa situations actually aren't all that similar. DeRo is 34 years old and costs $5.5 million a year. With his likelihood to decline (which I think is a bit overstated), the Cubs were selling high on him.

 

Teahen, on the other hand, is making just over $3.5 million this year, is 27 and is still arbitration eligible after the season. He's cheaper and younger than DeRo and may still improve with the bat. There's far less reason to trade Teahen than DeRosa.

[Backtobanks]

Why would the Royals want to give up a guy who hits, isn't super expensive, can play 6 positions, and they have under control for a bit longer? Especially for some prospects that aren't very good?

This describes the DeRosa/Indians trade to a Tee.

 

Who knows. Maybe the Royals have their own version of the Cubs' wanting to get more lefthanded.

 

Heck everyone seems to be down on the Pirates for the McLouth trade too. Point being you never know what the other side might say yes to.

 

The Teahen/DeRosa situations actually aren't all that similar. DeRo is 34 years old and costs $5.5 million a year. With his likelihood to decline (which I think is a bit overstated), the Cubs were selling high on him.

 

Teahen, on the other hand, is making just over $3.5 million this year, is 27 and is still arbitration eligible after the season. He's cheaper and younger than DeRo and may still improve with the bat. There's far less reason to trade Teahen than DeRosa.

 

 

Teahen will probably be making at least $4.3 and $4.8 over the next 2 years which might be more expensive than DeRosa if you take into account the budgets of the Indians and the Cubs. I stated earlier that Teahen underproduces for his 2 main positions (3B and RF - 90% of his games played). He is younger, but he isn't the solution to getting the Royals to the playoffs. As I stated earlier, his value comes as a versatile role player on a competitive team and not as a regular 3B/RF on a team trying to become competitive. That's why DeRosa is back on the trade block - his value is as a versatile role player on a competitive team. I think that the Royals will be willing to trade Teahen for the right package.

[dew1679666265]

Teahen will probably be making at least $4.3 and $4.8 over the next 2 years which might be more expensive than DeRosa if you take into account the budgets of the Indians and the Cubs. I stated earlier that Teahen underproduces for his 2 main positions (3B and RF - 90% of his games played). He is younger, but he isn't the solution to getting the Royals to the playoffs. As I stated earlier, his value comes as a versatile role player on a competitive team and not as a regular 3B/RF on a team trying to become competitive. That's why DeRosa is back on the trade block - his value is as a versatile role player on a competitive team. I think that the Royals will be willing to trade Teahen for the right package.

 

Oh I agree completely that they'd be willing to deal him for the right package. The right package isn't likely to be fringe major league castoffs or old, expensive vets, though. Plus, if the assumption is that the Royals will try to contend (a reasonable assumption), then Cruz and Mahay will be important pieces to their pen.

 

DeRosa is on the trade block because he's a valuable piece to a team - one that teams will be willing to pay good value for. Teahen is the same way. I think the Royals would be fine with keeping him or dealing him, but they have no immediate need to trade him, so he's not going to come dirt cheap.

[Backtobanks]

Teahen will probably be making at least $4.3 and $4.8 over the next 2 years which might be more expensive than DeRosa if you take into account the budgets of the Indians and the Cubs. I stated earlier that Teahen underproduces for his 2 main positions (3B and RF - 90% of his games played). He is younger, but he isn't the solution to getting the Royals to the playoffs. As I stated earlier, his value comes as a versatile role player on a competitive team and not as a regular 3B/RF on a team trying to become competitive. That's why DeRosa is back on the trade block - his value is as a versatile role player on a competitive team. I think that the Royals will be willing to trade Teahen for the right package.

 

Oh I agree completely that they'd be willing to deal him for the right package. The right package isn't likely to be fringe major league castoffs or old, expensive vets, though. Plus, if the assumption is that the Royals will try to contend (a reasonable assumption), then Cruz and Mahay will be important pieces to their pen.

 

DeRosa is on the trade block because he's a valuable piece to a team - one that teams will be willing to pay good value for. Teahen is the same way. I think the Royals would be fine with keeping him or dealing him, but they have no immediate need to trade him, so he's not going to come dirt cheap.

 

 

I think we agree that if the right package comes along, they would trade him. My problem with so many posters is that any package of Cubs' prospects is immediately labeled "garbage". As I have tried to point out (and seconded by Davearm) is that you never know what another GM is thinking or seeking.

[dew1679666265]

I think we agree that if the right package comes along, they would trade him. My problem with so many posters is that any package of Cubs' prospects is immediately labeled "garbage". As I have tried to point out (and seconded by Davearm) is that you never know what another GM is thinking or seeking.

 

I definitely agree that for the right package they'd move him.

 

However, I think you're overexaggerating the gap between the "experts" (Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, etc) and a teams' view of a player. In the McClouth trade, for instance (since it was brought up), the Pirates thought more highly of Gorkys Hernandez than most of the minor league services did. However, there are few I've seen who don't think he can be a starter in the majors.

 

So while I agree there's a gap there, it's not big enough to turn a non-prospect into the centerpiece of a deal for a legitimately productive player. The Cubs have a lot of non-prospects and fringe prospects.

[illiniguy]

Teahen will probably be making at least $4.3 and $4.8 over the next 2 years which might be more expensive than DeRosa if you take into account the budgets of the Indians and the Cubs. I stated earlier that Teahen underproduces for his 2 main positions (3B and RF - 90% of his games played). He is younger, but he isn't the solution to getting the Royals to the playoffs. As I stated earlier, his value comes as a versatile role player on a competitive team and not as a regular 3B/RF on a team trying to become competitive. That's why DeRosa is back on the trade block - his value is as a versatile role player on a competitive team. I think that the Royals will be willing to trade Teahen for the right package.

 

Oh I agree completely that they'd be willing to deal him for the right package. The right package isn't likely to be fringe major league castoffs or old, expensive vets, though. Plus, if the assumption is that the Royals will try to contend (a reasonable assumption), then Cruz and Mahay will be important pieces to their pen.

 

DeRosa is on the trade block because he's a valuable piece to a team - one that teams will be willing to pay good value for. Teahen is the same way. I think the Royals would be fine with keeping him or dealing him, but they have no immediate need to trade him, so he's not going to come dirt cheap.

 

 

I think we agree that if the right package comes along, they would trade him. My problem with so many posters is that any package of Cubs' prospects is immediately labeled "garbage". As I have tried to point out (and seconded by Davearm) is that you never know what another GM is thinking or seeking.

I'm not saying that our prospects are garbage, or at least not meaning too. I just think that we are going to have to give up some of the better ones in order to get a decent return. Some posters were suggesting that the Royals would just give us Teahan. That's not gonna happen. Dayton Moore's no fool.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Teahen will probably be making at least $4.3 and $4.8 over the next 2 years which might be more expensive than DeRosa if you take into account the budgets of the Indians and the Cubs. I stated earlier that Teahen underproduces for his 2 main positions (3B and RF - 90% of his games played). He is younger, but he isn't the solution to getting the Royals to the playoffs. As I stated earlier, his value comes as a versatile role player on a competitive team and not as a regular 3B/RF on a team trying to become competitive. That's why DeRosa is back on the trade block - his value is as a versatile role player on a competitive team. I think that the Royals will be willing to trade Teahen for the right package.

 

Oh I agree completely that they'd be willing to deal him for the right package. The right package isn't likely to be fringe major league castoffs or old, expensive vets, though. Plus, if the assumption is that the Royals will try to contend (a reasonable assumption), then Cruz and Mahay will be important pieces to their pen.

 

DeRosa is on the trade block because he's a valuable piece to a team - one that teams will be willing to pay good value for. Teahen is the same way. I think the Royals would be fine with keeping him or dealing him, but they have no immediate need to trade him, so he's not going to come dirt cheap.

 

 

I think we agree that if the right package comes along, they would trade him. My problem with so many posters is that any package of Cubs' prospects is immediately labeled "garbage". As I have tried to point out (and seconded by Davearm) is that you never know what another GM is thinking or seeking.

I'm not saying that our prospects are garbage, or at least not meaning too. I just think that we are going to have to give up some of the better ones in order to get a decent return. Some posters were suggesting that the Royals would just give us Teahan. That's not gonna happen. Dayton Moore's no fool.

 

Problem is, Teahen really isnt worth a Jay Jackson or Josh Vitters. Jake Fox could be a good guy to base a deal around, but they'll want more. Even is we packaged Fox with someone like Hart, and threw in a few of our decent AA or below guys, thats not garbage. Guys like Barney, Flaherty, and Burke are in their early 20's and could generate some interest. Nobodys suggesting we offer Doug Deeds and So Taguchi and expect not to get lauged at.