When are the Cubs going to get a third baseman?

[dew1679666265]

Or you can get a guy like Wigginton or Branyan who can fill other roles after Aramis is back (assuming he's fully healed). Or you can sign Ray Durham and upgrade the entire team.

 

Were gonna have to give up decent talent to even get Wigginton or Branyan at this point of the year. Wigginton is signed for next year as well, and wouldn't have a spot on the team when Ramirez came back due to Hoffpauir and not really being able to play good defense at 2nd(is horrible at 3rd to).

 

Wigginton can play either corner outfield spot better than Hoff and he's a decent enough second baseman (1.8 UZR). I didn't realize how awful he was at third, though.

 

Branyan probably makes more sense because after he's back you can just use him as a pinch hitter and still play Hoffpauir over him. But again he makes very little money, and it's still early in the season. The Mariners aren't just gonna give him away unless they get something of value.

 

This is true, but that's why you look into the trade. Perhaps their version of trading high for Branyan is acquiring Randy Wells or Kevin Hart. But you don't just assume they'll be asking too much and not even try. I don't if Hendry has inquired about him or not, but I hope he has/will.

 

Ray Durham might not be a bad idea and it's worth a try. But at the same time he's old and hasn't played baseball since last year and by the time he's ready to produce Ramirez might be on his way back already. We can't sign Durham now and expect him to be a effective hitter for at least a month and he might have to go in the minors to get himself ready.

 

That's a legit point and something to consider. If Durham has kept himself in good shape, however, it may just be a week or two in AAA that he needs and then he'll be ready to go. Again, without at least exploring the options, we don't know the answers to these questions.

[cubsfan26]

Wigginton would definitely have a spot on the roster when Ramirez gets back. Freel's the one that probably wouldn't have a spot.

 

I'm sure he would still have a spot, but he wouldn't get AB's or Hoffpauir wouldn't get AB's when that happens. With his contract he's a guy you need to play alot. There's only so many AB's at 1st, and corner outfield spots to go around. If the Cubs thought Wigginton can be solid at 2b and Fontenot keeps struggling then it might be realistic. But again I don't think the Cubs have given up on Fontenot yet.

[dew1679666265]

for dew and anyone else suggesting Durham: how long is it going to take a 37 year old who hasn't been playing to get in "game shape"? i can't really see him as a viable option as far as replacing some of Ramirez' production.

 

edit: i guess some others already beat me to that question.

 

I addressed that in another post, but it is a concern. If he's stayed in good physical shape while out, it may just take a week or two of AAA at-bats to get back into good game shape. Or it may take longer. It's a good option to at least explore, though.

 

Durham would be a long term (in terms of the rest of this season) option, though, and not just a stop gap filler until Aramis got back. If we signed Durham, that would relegate Fontenot to the bench for the remainder of the year - which is one reason why I think Hendry would be reluctant to do it.

[fromthestretch]

Wigginton would definitely have a spot on the roster when Ramirez gets back. Freel's the one that probably wouldn't have a spot.

 

I'm sure he would still have a spot, but he wouldn't get AB's or Hoffpauir wouldn't get AB's when that happens. With his contract he's a guy you need to play alot. There's only so many AB's at 1st, and corner outfield spots to go around. If the Cubs thought Wigginton can be solid at 2b and Fontenot keeps struggling then it might be realistic. But again I don't think the Cubs have given up on Fontenot yet.

 

I don't think they've given up on Fontenot either, but I also don't think they'd be opposed to platooning him if they had a solid right-handed option at that position. Wigginton could still get plenty of at-bats, giving Bradley, Fontenot, and probably Ramirez a day off here and there. Miles' number of at-bats would suffer, which is a good thing.

[cubsfan26]

This is true, but that's why you look into the trade. Perhaps their version of trading high for Branyan is acquiring Randy Wells or Kevin Hart. But you don't just assume they'll be asking too much and not even try. I don't if Hendry has inquired about him or not, but I hope he has/will.

 

 

Hendry needs to try to inquire about guys there's no doubt about that. I never said Hendry should just sit back and not try to fill the hole. I'm just saying in this postion it's very hard to fill that hole and have it make sense. So I don't expect anything to get done at this point in the year. If you could get Branyan for a guy like Kevin Hart you make the deal. But if the Mariners want something like Wells and a good prospect I think it's too much. Wells has pitched great so far, but I know his potential is 5th starter/long guy. The problem is I think the Cubs really need a guy to fill that role right now so I don't like giving up Wells. Unless were adding another starter and putting Marshall in the pen.

[dew1679666265]

This is true, but that's why you look into the trade. Perhaps their version of trading high for Branyan is acquiring Randy Wells or Kevin Hart. But you don't just assume they'll be asking too much and not even try. I don't if Hendry has inquired about him or not, but I hope he has/will.

 

 

Hendry needs to try to inquire about guys there's no doubt about that. I never said Hendry should just sit back and not try to fill the hole. I'm just saying in this postion it's very hard to fill that hole and have it make sense. So I don't expect anything to get done at this point in the year. If you could get Branyan for a guy like Kevin Hart you make the deal. But if the Mariners want something like Wells and a good prospect I think it's too much. Wells has pitched great so far, but I know his potential is 5th starter/long guy. The problem is I think the Cubs really need a guy to fill that role right now so I don't like giving up Wells. Unless were adding another starter and putting Marshall in the pen.

 

You're "go with what we got and suck it up" comment made me think you were opposed to even attempting to fill the hole. Sorry.

 

Wells' results have been good, but I wonder just how long it will continue. He's been getting hit hard and has walked 5 guys in 11 innings. He could continue to be solid, or the balls could start falling in and he won't be as productive as he's been.

 

If we could get a good bat like Branyan's for him, I'd be very inclined to sell high and take my chances with Hart or Shark as the fifth starter. Keep in mind, Z will be back soon meaning one of Marshall/Wells will move to the pen anyway.

[fromthestretch]

This is true, but that's why you look into the trade. Perhaps their version of trading high for Branyan is acquiring Randy Wells or Kevin Hart. But you don't just assume they'll be asking too much and not even try. I don't if Hendry has inquired about him or not, but I hope he has/will.

 

 

Hendry needs to try to inquire about guys there's no doubt about that. I never said Hendry should just sit back and not try to fill the hole. I'm just saying in this postion it's very hard to fill that hole and have it make sense. So I don't expect anything to get done at this point in the year. If you could get Branyan for a guy like Kevin Hart you make the deal. But if the Mariners want something like Wells and a good prospect I think it's too much. Wells has pitched great so far, but I know his potential is 5th starter/long guy. The problem is I think the Cubs really need a guy to fill that role right now so I don't like giving up Wells. Unless were adding another starter and putting Marshall in the pen.

 

You're "go with what we got and suck it up" comment made me think you were opposed to even attempting to fill the hole. Sorry.

 

That's the way I interpreted it, too.

[cubsfan26]

Keep in mind, Z will be back soon meaning one of Marshall/Wells will move to the pen anyway

 

I know which I'm actually pretty happy about. Right now one of this team issues is not having that long guy to eat up innings and keep the game close when the Cubs are only behind by a run or two or tied. Last season we had that with Lieber early in the season and Marshall in the second half. That allowed us to come back and win a bunch of games. This season there's been like 3-5 games when we were in the game until Patton, Cotts, Samardzija and Fox let things get out of hand. Sundays game with the Astros was another example of that with Ascaino giving up two runs and then we saw the Cubs comeback in the 9th. So when Zambrano comes back I'm hoping Wells or Marshall will be able to fill that role and hold teams down for a inning or two and allow the offense to come back.

[cubsfan26]

This is true, but that's why you look into the trade. Perhaps their version of trading high for Branyan is acquiring Randy Wells or Kevin Hart. But you don't just assume they'll be asking too much and not even try. I don't if Hendry has inquired about him or not, but I hope he has/will.

 

 

Hendry needs to try to inquire about guys there's no doubt about that. I never said Hendry should just sit back and not try to fill the hole. I'm just saying in this postion it's very hard to fill that hole and have it make sense. So I don't expect anything to get done at this point in the year. If you could get Branyan for a guy like Kevin Hart you make the deal. But if the Mariners want something like Wells and a good prospect I think it's too much. Wells has pitched great so far, but I know his potential is 5th starter/long guy. The problem is I think the Cubs really need a guy to fill that role right now so I don't like giving up Wells. Unless were adding another starter and putting Marshall in the pen.

 

You're "go with what we got and suck it up" comment made me think you were opposed to even attempting to fill the hole. Sorry.

 

That's the way I interpreted it, too.

 

Sorry it came off that way, it was more to the people saying Hendry is busy eating big macs instead of adding a new 3rd baseman already. I was trying to explain to them that when you have a big injury at this time of the year and expect that guy to still come back your pretty much screwed. Just like the Cubs were in 06 when Lee got hurt. Lets just hope that Ramirez is able to recover lot better then Lee did in 06.

[dew1679666265]

Keep in mind, Z will be back soon meaning one of Marshall/Wells will move to the pen anyway

 

I know which I'm actually pretty happy about. Right now one of this team issues is not having that long guy to eat up innings and keep the game close when the Cubs are only behind by a run or two or tied. Last season we had that with Lieber early in the season and Marshall in the second half. That allowed us to come back and win a bunch of games. This season there's been like 3-5 games when we were in the game until Patton, Cotts, Samardzija and Fox let things get out of hand. Sundays game with the Astros was another example of that with Ascaino giving up two runs and then we saw the Cubs comeback in the 9th. So when Zambrano comes back I'm hoping Wells or Marshall will be able to fill that role and hold teams down for a inning or two and allow the offense to come back.

 

I think the return of Zambrano makes Wells more expendable - if we can use him to acquire a good bat to help fill the void of missing Aramis (and perhaps fill in for Fontenot if he continues to struggle), then I say go for it. If he still won't bring a good return, however, I agree that he should be moved to the pen.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Keep in mind, Z will be back soon meaning one of Marshall/Wells will move to the pen anyway

 

I know which I'm actually pretty happy about. Right now one of this team issues is not having that long guy to eat up innings and keep the game close when the Cubs are only behind by a run or two or tied. Last season we had that with Lieber early in the season and Marshall in the second half. That allowed us to come back and win a bunch of games. This season there's been like 3-5 games when we were in the game until Patton, Cotts, Samardzija and Fox let things get out of hand. Sundays game with the Astros was another example of that with Ascaino giving up two runs and then we saw the Cubs comeback in the 9th. So when Zambrano comes back I'm hoping Wells or Marshall will be able to fill that role and hold teams down for a inning or two and allow the offense to come back.

 

I think the return of Zambrano makes Wells more expendable - if we can use him to acquire a good bat to help fill the void of missing Aramis (and perhaps fill in for Fontenot if he continues to struggle), then I say go for it. If he still won't bring a good return, however, I agree that he should be moved to the pen.

 

Wells has had 2 solid starts, but its going to take more than that to aquire anything of substance for him. Maybe if packaged with Jake Fox and another prospect of the Kevin Hart/Mitch Atkins like, we could be in business.

[dew1679666265]

Sorry it came off that way, it was more to the people saying Hendry is busy eating big macs instead of adding a new 3rd baseman already. I was trying to explain to them that when you have a big injury at this time of the year and expect that guy to still come back your pretty much screwed. Just like the Cubs were in 06 when Lee got hurt. Lets just hope that Ramirez is able to recover lot better then Lee did in 06.

 

That's what I'm worried about and why I'm pushing for a deal to be made (though I couldn't care less if Hendry is enjoying a Big Mac, those things are good). If Aramis takes longer than the optimistic reports to return or if he doesn't return to form and needs off days more often, we'll need a better bat than Miles/Scales/Freel to come off the bench.

[dew1679666265]

Keep in mind, Z will be back soon meaning one of Marshall/Wells will move to the pen anyway

 

I know which I'm actually pretty happy about. Right now one of this team issues is not having that long guy to eat up innings and keep the game close when the Cubs are only behind by a run or two or tied. Last season we had that with Lieber early in the season and Marshall in the second half. That allowed us to come back and win a bunch of games. This season there's been like 3-5 games when we were in the game until Patton, Cotts, Samardzija and Fox let things get out of hand. Sundays game with the Astros was another example of that with Ascaino giving up two runs and then we saw the Cubs comeback in the 9th. So when Zambrano comes back I'm hoping Wells or Marshall will be able to fill that role and hold teams down for a inning or two and allow the offense to come back.

 

I think the return of Zambrano makes Wells more expendable - if we can use him to acquire a good bat to help fill the void of missing Aramis (and perhaps fill in for Fontenot if he continues to struggle), then I say go for it. If he still won't bring a good return, however, I agree that he should be moved to the pen.

 

Wells has had 2 solid starts, but its going to take more than that to aquire anything of substance for him. Maybe if packaged with Jake Fox and another prospect of the Kevin Hart/Mitch Atkins like, we could be in business.

 

I don't think it'd be on his own, but a guy like Wells who has been decent enough in the minors and then comes to the majors and has 2-3 good starts could become the centerpiece of a minor deal (i.e. for Branyan). It likely would take a Jake Fox or someone like that to really get the Mariners thinking about it.

[haubrich91]

Jake Fox.

[E.J.]

Dear NSBB,

 

If the Cubs thought Jake Fox could handle himself at 3b they would have brought him up already. He's only played a handful of games at 3b and is a atrocious defender by all accounts. He's not going to be playing 3b for the Cubs anytime soon.

 

-EJ

[TruffleShuffle]

he'd be like ryan braun, except not hit as much and probably be a worse fielder.

 

if money wasn't an issue, i think cristian guzman would be kind of a cool pick up. he's a good fielder and i think he could do a good job at 3B; once ARam came back then guzman could play SS and theriot could play 2B. guzman certainly would offer good "fontenot sucks" insurance.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Keep in mind, Z will be back soon meaning one of Marshall/Wells will move to the pen anyway

 

I know which I'm actually pretty happy about. Right now one of this team issues is not having that long guy to eat up innings and keep the game close when the Cubs are only behind by a run or two or tied. Last season we had that with Lieber early in the season and Marshall in the second half. That allowed us to come back and win a bunch of games. This season there's been like 3-5 games when we were in the game until Patton, Cotts, Samardzija and Fox let things get out of hand. Sundays game with the Astros was another example of that with Ascaino giving up two runs and then we saw the Cubs comeback in the 9th. So when Zambrano comes back I'm hoping Wells or Marshall will be able to fill that role and hold teams down for a inning or two and allow the offense to come back.

 

I think the return of Zambrano makes Wells more expendable - if we can use him to acquire a good bat to help fill the void of missing Aramis (and perhaps fill in for Fontenot if he continues to struggle), then I say go for it. If he still won't bring a good return, however, I agree that he should be moved to the pen.

 

Wells has had 2 solid starts, but its going to take more than that to aquire anything of substance for him. Maybe if packaged with Jake Fox and another prospect of the Kevin Hart/Mitch Atkins like, we could be in business.

 

I don't think it'd be on his own, but a guy like Wells who has been decent enough in the minors and then comes to the majors and has 2-3 good starts could become the centerpiece of a minor deal (i.e. for Branyan). It likely would take a Jake Fox or someone like that to really get the Mariners thinking about it.

 

The question is, hiow much do we give up for a stop gap/lightening in a bottle type of player? Id give them Jake Fox and Kevin Hert, and even thats selling high for the Ms.

[dew1679666265]

The question is, hiow much do we give up for a stop gap/lightening in a bottle type of player? Id give them Jake Fox and Kevin Hert, and even thats selling high for the Ms.

 

He's not that much of a lightning in a bottle type player. Obviously he's not going to OPS 1.000+ for too long, but he's a good bet to give us a roughly .850 or so OPS on the year.

 

I'd do Wells and Fox. Fox is a lesser version of Branyan (worse defense) and Wells is a decent enough starter with some marginal upside. Branyan is a poor man's Adam Dunn.

[TruffleShuffle]

i like branyan a lot and loved the m's signing of him. the questions would be how much they want for him, whether he can play third base adequately, and whether the m's are willing to give him up yet (that division blows and they probably don't consider themselves out of it).

[dew1679666265]

i like branyan a lot and loved the m's signing of him. the questions would be how much they want for him, whether he can play third base adequately, and whether the m's are willing to give him up yet (that division blows and they probably don't consider themselves out of it).

 

These are definitely concerns, but if we could do a deal like I suggested, I'd feel pretty good. I think he's a very underrated player.

[Prior4CyYoung]

Hasn't Blalock played games at 2b too seems like he would be the perfect fit for us although the Rangers are playing well right now which kinda Sox and hurts our chances of trading for him.

[squally1313]

It's times like this when I wish it was a video game and you were always able to get rid of a player/his contract for at least a few decent prospects...

 

1. Trade Lee for whatever you can get for him. Start Hoff every day...if he starts to struggle bring up Fox to platoon with him.

2. Trade for Blalock to fill in at 3B for A-Ram

3. When A-Ram comes back healthy, move Blalock to first (played 30something games there last year with 1 error, which isn't the best measure, but still)

 

Unfortunately Lee is pretty much unmovable at this point, both for his contract vs. production and his fan-favorite status. Also, his NTC, which I just remembered now after typing all this. Whatever...it made me happy to consider the possibility for a few minutes...

 

As for second base, mark me down as one person not all that worried about Fontenot at this point. His strike out and walk rates remain nearly identical to last year, and he had 477 at bats his first two years with the Cubs with BABIP of over .330. It's at .212 right now, good for 4th worst in baseball. And yes, while .330 seems high, he had over 570 at bats in AAA with a BABIP over .340. It's not unreasonable to think he can't settle in at around .300 in that category for the rest of the year.

 

His biggest problem has been the quality of his batted balls. His line drive percentage has plummeted from 24.1% to 12.1%. It almost makes that extremely low BABIP seem reasonable, using the googled formula of LD%+.120. It's concerning, but if he was striking out at a much higher rate it would raise a lot more red flags to me. His problem is a matter of fractions of inches in lining up the ball, something more easily correctable than simply making contact in the first place.

 

Finally, this might be faulty logic, but I'm much more worried about getting good production from my corner infielders than from my second baseman. Getting a third baseman who can put up 85-90% of A-Ram's production while he's gone seems a lot better to me than upgrading marginally from Fontenot to Durham/Grudz/whoever, and then downgrading significantly from A-Ram to Fontenot. I know some of the names thrown around for third seem unreasonable considering it's really just a rental player, but that's one of a big market team's biggest advantages is that they are able to make these moves. Would Beltre (to throw out a name) be pleased with being relegated to a pinch hitting spot come August? Probably not. But ultimately, he A. doesn't have much choice, and B. would be playing for a contender with a great chance of making the playoffs, or at least a better chance than Seattle. If someone like that can fit in the budget, I say that's the move we have to make.

[dew1679666265]

Hasn't Blalock played games at 2b too seems like he would be the perfect fit for us although the Rangers are playing well right now which kinda Sox and hurts our chances of trading for him.

 

He's played 4 games at second base with one start. A total of 12 innings there.

[TruffleShuffle]

As for second base, mark me down as one person not all that worried about Fontenot at this point. His strike out and walk rates remain nearly identical to last year, and he had 477 at bats his first two years with the Cubs with BABIP of over .330. It's at .212 right now, good for 4th worst in baseball. And yes, while .330 seems high, he had over 570 at bats in AAA with a BABIP over .340. It's not unreasonable to think he can't settle in at around .300 in that category for the rest of the year.

 

yeah i wouldn't be worried about fontenot if he were hitting the ball hard and getting lucky. he just doesn't seem to be squaring anything up right now. i'm not sure if pitchers have found a pitch or location that he doesn't hit well, or if he is just in a horrendous slump. but he is ice cold (and apparently the rest of the team is coming down with what he has).

[Eric Clipperton]

It's a big slump, plus being exposed to everyday pitching such as LHP which he is pretty horrible against. The two don't go together very well, but he'll end up ok. Not as nuts as we maybe thought, but I'd imagine average or slightly below production for 2B. Remember he is a decent 2B defender, certainly above DeRosa according to UZR etc.