Minor League Discussion & Boxes 5-13-2009

[CubsWin]

How long until Cashner is placed into the pen as a closer? I'm pretty sure the only reason why he is in the rotation at Daytona is to build up his arm strength, and possible work on some secondary pitches... I don't think he "projects" as a starting pitcer, but who knows I guess?

 

Hopefully all of this year. He needs to work on those secondary pitches and also work on his control.

And I haven't given up hope that he might stick as a starter though he's eventually going to have to get into the 4th inning for that to happen..

 

Cashner is really wild. Last year he walked more a batter per inning (as a pro; he hadn't been equally wild in college). This year he's still really wild; I don't know where they record how many guys he's hit, but when you sum up walks, wild pitches, and HBP, he's averaging more than a wild-event per inning. And the extraordinary wildness is also why he's exhausting his pitch count within 2 or 3 innings.

 

That kind of wildness doesn't play in either rotation or relief. He's in a minor-league rotation to pitch and try to get a hint of control. How much control he develops will dictate how far he goes and in what role he pitches, if he ever gets enough to pitch productively in the majors.

Just a thought - If he's working on his secondary pitches, his problems with control could be due to that. Having no pitching experience myself, if someone asked me to come out and throw a forkball every third pitch every game, I would consider myself lucky if the catcher was even able to get a glove on it! Since his history indicates that his control has been fine, I have a tendency not to panic. I will assume that the Cubs brass will eventually have him scrap any pitches that he is just not getting the hang of. I think most pitchers work on those pitches in EST, but with him being such a high draft pick and an older player, I imagine there is some pressure to have him pitch in full-season ball. Just my two cents.

If the Cubs are doing that with Cashner then its a trend 'cuz they did the same thing with Samardzija last year.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Does anyone have Foxe fielding stats? He has only 2 errors on the year. Is he as bad as they say? Bad enough to deny his bat? Of his 43 hits on the year, 26 are for extra bases. Thats pretty damn impressive.

[craig]

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Just a thought - If he's working on his secondary pitches, his problems with control could be due to that. ...Since his history indicates that his control has been fine, I have a tendency not to panic. I will assume that the Cubs brass will eventually have him scrap any pitches that he is just not getting the hang of. I think most pitchers work on those pitches in EST, but with him being such a high draft pick and an older player, I imagine there is some pressure to have him pitch in full-season ball. Just my two cents.

 

I don't really agree with the comfort that "since his history indicates that his control has been fine, I have a tendency not to panic". I am much more concerned about his control than you. His history is limited, but IIRC his history in junior college was quite wild; his best controlled period of his career was at TCU last year, and he still walked 27 in 54 innings, with a bunch of wild pitches (7), and I don't know how many HBP. So his best period of proven control was still rather wild, and that was a small sample size. Since then, he bounced back with 23 walks in 20 pro innings last summer. (Usually they aren't tinkering during the draft summer, they do that afterwards.) So basically in his career year (to date) last year, he had 50 walks in 74 innings, plus many additional wildman wild pitches and HBP. So even in his best control year, he still was around one wild-event per inning. And now he's bouncing back again with an average of at least one wild-event per inning.

 

So yes, I have to admit I'm pretty concerned about it. Control is crucial. The fact that he's shown none since signing is a major worry to me. I appreciate that it doesn't mean he won't improve. But he had a slider in college. So the concept of using throwing the fastball and the slider, those aren't novel for him. The fact that he can't get them over is not routine and normal for highly successful prospects.

[craig]

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Just a thought - If he's working on his secondary pitches, his problems with control could be due to that. ...Since his history indicates that his control has been fine, I have a tendency not to panic. I will assume that the Cubs brass will eventually have him scrap any pitches that he is just not getting the hang of. I think most pitchers work on those pitches in EST, but with him being such a high draft pick and an older player, I imagine there is some pressure to have him pitch in full-season ball. Just my two cents.

 

I don't really agree with the comfort that "since his history indicates that his control has been fine, I have a tendency not to panic". I am much more concerned about his control than you. His history is limited, but IIRC his history in junior college was quite wild; his best controlled period of his career was at TCU last year, and he still walked 27 in 54 innings, with a bunch of wild pitches (7), and I don't know how many HBP. So his best period of proven control was still rather wild, and that was a small sample size. Since then, he bounced back with 23 walks in 20 pro innings last summer. (Usually they aren't tinkering during the draft summer, they do that afterwards.) So basically in his career year (to date) last year, he had 50 walks in 74 innings, plus many additional wildman wild pitches and HBP. So even in his best control year, he still was around one wild-event per inning. And now he's bouncing back again with an average of at least one wild-event per inning.

 

So yes, I have to admit I'm pretty concerned about it. Control is crucial. The fact that he's shown none since signing is a major worry to me. I appreciate that it doesn't mean he won't improve. But he had a slider in college. So the concept of using throwing the fastball and the slider, those aren't novel for him. The fact that he can't get them over is not routine and normal for highly successful prospects, that's a worry. That he can't get his newer change over, that's more understandable.

 

Another angle on this: Cashner is pretty much always wild. This is different somewhat from a guy like Carpenter, who goes wild in streaks but also shows streaks where he is around the plate and can throw strikes. If a guy is like Carpenter, who can throw four pretty controlled innings and then go completely haywire in the fifth, I think it's more plausible that with time he'll be able to lock into the good and diagnose/correct what happens when he goes totally haywire. But Cashner seems more consistently wild almost all the time, and that's a lot harder to correct.

 

Hopefully I'm being paranoid, and over the next couple of starts we'll see some 6K/1BB, 7K/2BB games where he is able to start getting through 4 and 5 innings, and start to have the wildman stuff become more the exception than the rule.

[Guest]

Castro's BA is up to .270 now. Still doesn't walk a lot (3 BB, IsoD of .028), doesn't hit for much power (4 XBH - IsoP of .070) and has 7 errors but he is holding his own as a 19 year old in the FSL skipping Boise and Peoria.

 

I do like that he only has 13 Ks.

[Guest]

After a brutal start, Jay Jackson has really settled in his last 3 starts: 20 IP, 14 H, 3 ER, 6 BB, 19 BB, 1.35 ERA.

[craig]

Castro's BA is up to .270 now. Still doesn't walk a lot (3 BB, IsoD of .028), doesn't hit for much power (4 XBH - IsoP of .070) and has 7 errors but he is holding his own as a 19 year old in the FSL skipping Boise and Peoria.....

 

Unfortunately he actually has 12 errors, not 7.