Booing Former Players

[Laura]

It was written during the 1984 season and to the best of my knowledge really never popped up again until 2007.

 

This is mostly correct, but the team did use it in limited capacities prior to instituting it after home victories in 2007. In particular, I know they used it in the preseason radio pregame intro in 2005; that's the sort of "limited capacities" to which I'm referring, things like intros, promos, commercials and the like.

 

The played it during part of the post-game(s) celebration when they clinched the division in '03 and after Game 3 of the '03 NLDS. Someone somewhere at Wrigley thought of it as a Winning the Big Game song.

[Banedon]

The Harden one is unfair, I agree. But he's not lived up to the "star" expectations he came in with so far.

What? Come on now.

 

When I saw that Banedon posted this, I was pretty much speechless. :shock:

 

Open mouth, insert foot.

 

I meant something quite different, and posted in a rush, but at this point, rather than try to correct it, it's probably just better if I just acknowledge the Harden has been great for the Cubs, and leave it at that.

[Banedon]

But Latroy still sucked as a closer. 9 blown saves in '04.

[Sammys Boombox]

Rational or not, Latroy/Dusty put me through some horrible experiences in 2004. And while I have booed him twice now since then, I'm not proud of it. The guy grew up a Cubs fan and was pumped about playing for them. I'm sure he hates that season even more than we do. He probably had hopes of being around for a long time as a shutdown reliever closing games in October.

[TruffleShuffle]

the only game i ever saw at shea stadium was the victor diaz game. i drove up for the game with my dad. that gives me plenty of excuse to boo latroy hawkins as long as he's an active major league baseball player.

[jersey cubs fan]

the only game i ever saw at shea stadium was the victor diaz game. i drove up for the game with my dad. that gives me plenty of excuse to boo latroy hawkins as long as he's an active major league baseball player.

 

Actually, if that's what you are basing it on, you should really rethink it. Latroy was supposed to be unavailable that game. He wasn't going to pitch. Dusty brings in Dempster, who let two guys on base, then rushes Latroy into the game. So he wasn't going to use him as the closer until he let the other guy put 2 guys on base first. That's setting a guy up to fail.

[TruffleShuffle]

the only game i ever saw at shea stadium was the victor diaz game. i drove up for the game with my dad. that gives me plenty of excuse to boo latroy hawkins as long as he's an active major league baseball player.

 

Actually, if that's what you are basing it on, you should really rethink it. Latroy was supposed to be unavailable that game. He wasn't going to pitch. Dusty brings in Dempster, who let two guys on base, then rushes Latroy into the game. So he wasn't going to use him as the closer until he let the other guy put 2 guys on base first. That's setting a guy up to fail.

 

oh yeah, dempster walking two bad hitters ahead of that was really pathetic too, but dempster has at least redeemed himself. hawkins had this terrible tendency to get ahead of hitters and then groove a fastball on two strikes. he gave up a pretty deep fly to a bad hitter before victor diaz' AB, and then did it again on a 2-2 pitch to diaz. he did it a couple of games later against the reds - had austin kearns in an 0-2 hole and threw him a terrible 0-2 pitch that got drilled for a double.

 

i don't know if there is a "closer mentality" but if so, latroy hawkins certainly did not have it.

[Guest]

Maybe it isn't really the booing of the player themselves, but rather booing that the player is somehow reminding you that Dusty Baker used to manage this team.

 

With Jerry Hairston stepping to the plate, I can't help but remember the days when Corey Patterson and Neifi Perez were batting 1-2 in the line up in a season where Derrek Lee is putting up an MVP/Hall of Fame type season and he still barely cracks the 100 RBI mark.

 

In essence, maybe these people are just booing Dusty again. Some bad memories are better left being put out to pasture. Unfortunately for Hairston, Rusch and Hawkins, they are forever tied to Dusty Baker and some of the worst baseball I've ever put myself through watching.

[Sammys Boombox]

the only game i ever saw at shea stadium was the victor diaz game. i drove up for the game with my dad. that gives me plenty of excuse to boo latroy hawkins as long as he's an active major league baseball player.

 

Actually, if that's what you are basing it on, you should really rethink it. Latroy was supposed to be unavailable that game. He wasn't going to pitch. Dusty brings in Dempster, who let two guys on base, then rushes Latroy into the game. So he wasn't going to use him as the closer until he let the other guy put 2 guys on base first. That's setting a guy up to fail.

 

oh yeah, dempster walking two bad hitters ahead of that was really pathetic too, but dempster has at least redeemed himself. hawkins had this terrible tendency to get ahead of hitters and then groove a fastball on two strikes. he gave up a pretty deep fly to a bad hitter before victor diaz' AB, and then did it again on a 2-2 pitch to diaz. he did it a couple of games later against the reds - had austin kearns in an 0-2 hole and threw him a terrible 0-2 pitch that got drilled for a double.

 

i don't know if there is a "closer mentality" but if so, latroy hawkins certainly did not have it.

 

See, part of the reason why I hate him so much is because we took a week off of school in 2004 to see the last two games of the Reds series and the first two of the Braves series right there at the end of the year. The Cubs went 0-4 blowing their playoff chances. Latroy had a lot to do with that, including this double you're talking about. Do you remember Sosa just missing a grandslam in that game? I think it was Kearns who made the catch in right-center as well.

 

Anyway, I am over it now, but I understand if others still want to boo him. I just don't think I will.

 

EDIT: I just remembered the Glendon Rusch started that game against the Reds and hit a homerun.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN200409290.shtml

 

Game 2: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN200409300.shtml

 

Game 3: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN200410010.shtml

 

Game 4: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN200410020.shtml

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

I can't help but remember the days when Corey Patterson and Neifi Perez were batting 1-2 in the line up in a season where Derrek Lee is putting up an MVP/Hall of Fame type season and he still barely cracks the 100 RBI mark.

 

 

I remember the CUBS going 79-83 (.488) in 2005..... but there were those 20 games where Dusty batted Corey Patterson leadoff and Neifi Perez second......

 

Gm#    Date       Opponent         Score  Starter
 8  Wed 04/13    San Diego         3- 8  Wood        
11  Sat 04/16  @ Pittsburgh    N   4- 3  Dempster      
15  Wed 04/20  @ St. Louis     N   3- 1  Zambrano      
29  Sat 05/07    Philadelphia      1- 4  Rusch        
30  Sun 05/08    Philadelphia      2- 1  Zambrano      
31  Mon 05/09    New York      N   4- 7  Leicester     
32  Tue 05/10    New York      N   7- 0  Maddux        
33  Wed 05/11    New York          4- 3  Prior        
34  Fri 05/13  @ Washington    N   6- 3  Rusch        
35  Sat 05/14  @ Washington    N   3- 4  Zambrano      
36  Sun 05/15  @ Washington        4- 5  Maddux        
70  Wed 06/22  @ Milwaukee     N   4- 9  Zambrano      
71  Thu 06/23  @ Milwaukee         7- 8  Rusch        
72  Fri 06/24  @ Chicago (AL)      2-12  Mitre        
73  Sat 06/25  @ Chicago (AL)      6- 2  Maddux        
74  Sun 06/26  @ Chicago (AL)      2- 0  Prior        
75  Tue 06/28    Milwaukee     N   2- 0  Zambrano      
76  Wed 06/29    Milwaukee         3- 2  Wood        
78  Fri 07/01    Washington        3- 4  Prior        
79  Sat 07/02    Washington        2- 4  Williams      

 

.... and sure enough, the CUBS went 10-10 with Corey & Neifi.

 

Time to let it go. This just isn't what killed the '05 CUBS !!!!!

[Guest]

I might have said Patterson/Neifi batting 1 and 2, and you gave me each scenario where that happened, but I was referring more to all the times they batted 1 and 2, whether that was actually together or with someone else, or even vice versa on the batting order slot. And then there were others who had no business batting there and did, like Jose Macias.

 

Team OBP in top spot in 2005: .299

Team OBP in 2 hole in 2005: .314

 

After Jerry Hairston, the top lead off hitters (based on PA) are:

Corey Patterson

Neifi Perez

Jose Macias

Matt Lawton

 

The top #2 hitters (based on PA) were:

Neifi Perez

Todd Walker

Corey Patterson

Ronny Cedeno

Jerry Hairston

 

And yes, Jose Macias and Enrique Wilson enjoyed at bats in the 2 hole.

 

All told, more than half the Cubs games had either Corey or Neifi batting 2nd and more than 1/3 of the games had either Corey or Neifi leading off.

 

I can give it up because that was Dusty and Dusty is gone. But, it was a really bad year to be a Cub fan. It's bad enough remembering that Neifi and Macias were even on the team.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Look, I'm not trying to defend Dusty Baker in any way, shape, or form. It was a really bad year to be a CUBS fan because it was a really bad CUBS team, not because of the way Dusty used the players he had.

 

Consider these records.......

 

Team record by leadoff hitter

 

                    W    L     pct
Perez              13   13   0.500
anyone else        66   70   0.485

Totals             79   83   0.488

 

 

 

Team record by second hitter

 

                    W    L     pct
Perez              35   29   0.547
anyone else        44   54   0.449

Totals             79   83   0.488

 

 

 

Team record by leadoff hitter

 

Patterson          15   14   0.517
Hairston           39   37   0.513
Macias              4    4   0.500
Perez              13   13   0.500
Theriot             1    1   0.500
Lawton              7   11   0.389
Gerut               0    1   0.000

Totals             79   83   0.488

 

 

 

Team record by second hitter

 

Cedeno              4    2   0.667
Perez              35   29   0.547
Hairston            3    3   0.500
Walker             29   32   0.475
Hollandsworth       1    2   0.333
Patterson           6   12   0.333
Lawton              0    1   0.000
Macias              0    2   0.000
Wilson              1    0   1.000

Totals             79   83   0.488

 

 

You can rearrange that '05 lineup six ways from Sunday, but what you can't do is make chicken salad out of chicken s...... well, let's just say that club was bad, eh?

[Guest]

Fair enough. It was a bad team.

[NCCubFan]

 

I can't help but remember the days when Corey Patterson and Neifi Perez were batting 1-2 in the line up in a season where Derrek Lee is putting up an MVP/Hall of Fame type season and he still barely cracks the 100 RBI mark.

 

 

I remember the CUBS going 79-83 (.488) in 2005..... but there were those 20 games where Dusty batted Corey Patterson leadoff and Neifi Perez second......

 

Gm#    Date       Opponent         Score  Starter
 8  Wed 04/13    San Diego         3- 8  Wood        
11  Sat 04/16  @ Pittsburgh    N   4- 3  Dempster      
15  Wed 04/20  @ St. Louis     N   3- 1  Zambrano      
29  Sat 05/07    Philadelphia      1- 4  Rusch        
30  Sun 05/08    Philadelphia      2- 1  Zambrano      
31  Mon 05/09    New York      N   4- 7  Leicester     
32  Tue 05/10    New York      N   7- 0  Maddux        
33  Wed 05/11    New York          4- 3  Prior        
34  Fri 05/13  @ Washington    N   6- 3  Rusch        
35  Sat 05/14  @ Washington    N   3- 4  Zambrano      
36  Sun 05/15  @ Washington        4- 5  Maddux        
70  Wed 06/22  @ Milwaukee     N   4- 9  Zambrano      
71  Thu 06/23  @ Milwaukee         7- 8  Rusch        
72  Fri 06/24  @ Chicago (AL)      2-12  Mitre        
73  Sat 06/25  @ Chicago (AL)      6- 2  Maddux        
74  Sun 06/26  @ Chicago (AL)      2- 0  Prior        
75  Tue 06/28    Milwaukee     N   2- 0  Zambrano      
76  Wed 06/29    Milwaukee         3- 2  Wood        
78  Fri 07/01    Washington        3- 4  Prior        
79  Sat 07/02    Washington        2- 4  Williams      

 

.... and sure enough, the CUBS went 10-10 with Corey & Neifi.

 

Time to let it go. This just isn't what killed the '05 CUBS !!!!!

Proves that Carrie Muskat was right when she said that Neifi saved the Cubs. :D